[quote author=Ladna link=topic=267.msg2406#msg2406 date=1283146995]<br />Defense against middle wall rj is easy, mid player just says &#039;rl&#039; or &#039;lift&#039; when they see it.&nbsp; No they won&#039;t see them all, but a proficient top D shouldn&#039;t be surprised when they see a runner on the base hump.[/quote]<br /><br />Not sure what you mean by this.&nbsp; If someone RJs up to the hump with the flag then goes to for the middle RJ up to the wall to cross middle, how is it easy to stop them?&nbsp; If I play middle and see them even then it&#039;s hard as hell to hit them up there let alone get a good enough shot that vs them high up to frag them.&nbsp; It&#039;s almost impossible as they just wait up there until the timing is right too.&nbsp; Trying to come after them means you gotta get out of position and spend time going up there to chase.<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=267.msg2406#msg2406 date=1283146995]I don&#039;t know if that&#039;s broken, in fact, I think all the rj options make that map playable at all, as opposed to a horrible grind.&nbsp; I mean, is the argument that Doom isn&#039;t about rj&#039;s or that it&#039;s too easy to score (don&#039;t hear that too often heh)?[/quote]<br /><br />Well I think it&#039;s a grind map now for sure.&nbsp; RJing doesn&#039;t change that it just means your O has to get in lots of touches to capture usually there.&nbsp; It is very hard to get a flag out there vs a good D anyway but RJing.&nbsp; In the old days people used to run them out normally or use the lift but that really rarely works now.&nbsp; It&#039;s pretty much RJ or bust.<br /><br />Bit off topic but yeah I don&#039;t ZD think RJing is good, even though I can score a lot on MAP08 RJing.&nbsp; I think the only single person who mastered RJing was potent.&nbsp; Even top players such as Chain you&#039;ll often see die to self damage when trying to RJ.&nbsp; I also have problems as ZDaemon whenever I RJ my fire and jump keys usually get stuck (anyone know how to stop that?).<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=267.msg2406#msg2406 date=1283146995]Like Strangle said, that map ends up a low-scoring game more often than not, it&#039;s just difficult to get a flag grab with enough health to rj out (once, let alone more times).[/quote]<br /><br />Yeah it does but I just think in top competitive matches having most captures be that RJ up to the middle wall junk is lame.&nbsp; It&#039;s like whoever can abuse the map glitch more.&nbsp; I can&#039;t think of any other maps like that off the top of my head.<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=267.msg2406#msg2406 date=1283146995]I&#039;d like opinions on all the maps in the IDL WAD, because it&#039;s up for review after the MB.&nbsp; Any cuts/additions?[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;ll have to think on that, maybe we should rename this topic?<br /><br />BTW here&#039;s a [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4LrJ1zujRA]quick video[/url] I made (might make some movies in the future) just to show what specific part of the RJing I think is broken on MAP08.