[quote author=Hatred link=topic=550.msg5608#msg5608 date=1323494204]<br />BPCTF: it&#039;s bad. <br />Libraries: RL Spawn literally breaks this map<br />SmartCTF02: It&#039;s just broken, man. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />What do you mean &quot;broken&quot;. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Map04 is broken.<br /><br />BPCTF isn&#039;t broken. It might be bad. Most people said that map28 was bad when it was first introduced into the wad. There was a pretty loud chorus of people saying &quot;WTF ONLY 2 SPAWNS?!#$!&quot;. We&#039;ll play it for a couple of seasons and if it still blows then we&#039;ll oust it.<br /><br />Libraries has been replaced in the wad but it&#039;s not a broken map. The RL spawn doesn&#039;t break anything. It&#039;s just inconvenient, maybe even purposely inconvenient. The map is such a defensive grind that anything that screws the defense a little might be considered a map feature rather than something &quot;broken&quot;. I didn&#039;t care for it because it was a brutal grind. <br /><br />With your Smart02 comments I&#039;m starting to get the feeling that &quot;broken&quot; means hard to defend. Well yes, that was one of the major premises behind that entire SmartCTF wad. And yeah, the spawns aren&#039;t always advantageous to the defense as they are in many maps. That is on purpose. You don&#039;t often spawn with the SSG. That is on purpose. There aren&#039;t obvious choke points. [b]That is on purpose.[/b] We have 25 maps in the wad with all of those things present. I imagine that will be the majority of what you play in IDL. However sometimes we need to play 34-13 or SCTF02 or Sewers if only to keep the sanity of less drone-ish players.<br /><br />&quot;Historical&quot; maps being removed was what I wanted to focus on in my post. The map selection process is pretty straight forward. We all go through maps and discuss things and make lists and vote through a few rounds of elimination, blah blah blah. The grounds for removal were what I wanted to focus on because I think the removal of some maps fed into the disdain we&#039;re seeing toward the newly included maps. It wasn&#039;t always &quot;well SCTF02 is better than ZDCTF07&quot;. More often it was &quot;07 has seen every season of IDL and is becoming stale and gets no playing time.&quot; Very rarely was there an instance where we ousted a map in favor of something else. From my recollection those were entirely separate processes. There were a few on the board who thought they shouldn&#039;t be, and in a couple of cases (brickrun.v2, map11fix) we did exchange maps. <br /><br />The issue is that when we as players see new maps we don&#039;t like, and see that maps we did like were removed, we associate those things. We didn&#039;t throw out map07 for Libraries. We threw out 13 maps and put 13 maps in. Some were good, others were bad, IDL has roughly 38% newer maps than last season. Let&#039;s get excited about playing new strategies on new maps against new teams instead of whining up a storm about the relic that is ZDCTF27 sitting out a few seasons.