[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=494.msg4773#msg4773 date=1316376422]<br />I will say this to dew, 3v1 almost never happens at mid on 13. [/quote]<br />you misunderstood me. what i meant was the mid player going out into the opponent&#039;s base and fighting 3v1 there to actually steal the BA. which is impossible, because<br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=494.msg4773#msg4773 date=1316376422]Even if the mid guy can completely dominate mid he isn&#039;t going to be able to attack up into the base vs plasma d, and respawners.&nbsp; Guys with 200/200 and plasma still fail quite a bit.[/quote]<br />therefore it has to be a task of arriving precisely on time and stealing it from under everyone&#039;s nose. i&#039;ve done some fairly difficult planned actions like timing a flagrun on 29 to grab freshly spawned BA on the way back, but i still find this map13 tactic improbable.<br /><br />let&#039;s see: i need to know the exact time of BA spawning, in the opponent&#039;s base in a pool under a wall that obscures it when looking from the middle. i have to be there to at least challenge every pickup, otherwise i&#039;m threatened with losing the timer to pickup delays. i have to plough through the opponent&#039;s mid, deal with his respawns, have enough health to survive the def pelting me with stuff and quite possibly also wrestle for the BA with the flagrunner who might be there for his dose of armorage. you know, because he has the timer as well and it is his task to collect it. all this has to be done smoothly in an offenssive joust, because i don&#039;t have an armor and hanging around means death. i have to abandon my possible other tasks and position myself within reach when the respawn time draws near and somehow i have to change my approaches, because after a few attempts the routine becomes predictable.<br /><br />i&#039;m sorry, but this is simply nuts in a game where even the weak weapons have ten times the damage output of quake&#039;s strongest guns. it won&#039;t work reliably unless your opponent is just weak.<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=494.msg4773#msg4773 date=1316376422]<br />Just because Doom players can&#039;t time items or often don&#039;t doesn&#039;t mean you can&#039;t do it.&nbsp; Quake players, who are metronomes in comparison, manage much more difficult tasks.<br />[/quote]<br />yeah, because quake is centered around itemwhoring, not being able to kill your opponents by looking at them angrily. i would love to see a quake player time items when he has to respawn every 10 seconds or so on randomized spots half a map away from his goal item. i didn&#039;t see higgs timing GAs in map28 and it&#039;s far easier there.