[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=267.msg2409#msg2409 date=1283159236]I&#039;m not a huge fan of the map but can see why it&#039;s important and, in all honesty, will probably always remain in the wad along with zdctf01 and zdctf04 on principle. With that said, this map hasn&#039;t been played in the IDL very much the past two years. [/quote]<br /><br />I think MAP01 should get the boot finally.&nbsp; It&#039;s a brain dead map, 31 is better and similar if you want to play a MAP01 style map.&nbsp; I say this as someone who used to love MAP01 and is really good at it.&nbsp; MAP04 has more depth in the gameplay with the sewers, dropping flags at middle/bridge and varied routes so it should remain for now.<br /><br />[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=267.msg2409#msg2409 date=1283159236]All of that aside, I cannot believe I&#039;m hearing somebody complain about how hard it is to stop offense on ZDCTF08. Most games I&#039;ve seen here (since maybe 2008) are basically scoreless or within a flag or two.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m not saying that at all if you are referring to me.&nbsp; I&#039;m saying the way you need to play MAP08 to be most successful on O is lame, stupid, and broken.&nbsp; It&#039;s like banging your head against the wall then finally you get lucky and the other team usually can&#039;t do anything about it.&nbsp; You have to play massive D on MAP08 since your goal there is to stop anyone from getting the flag with enough health to RJ.&nbsp; Once they get to the hump with the flag they have a very good chance of scoring if they know what they are doing and have good team play.&nbsp; If they can RJ again they should score.<br /><br />Quick RJs can still work as well but those are more of a luck thing since you&#039;ll need to exit the enemy base, cross middle and make it to your own flag often with low health.&nbsp; Getting a RJ up to an empty hump is the way to go.&nbsp; From there it&#039;s just a matter of you not fucking up and playing correctly.&nbsp; Easier said than done at times I know.<br /><br />I&#039;m just becoming more and more convinced as time goes on that the way we should be playing CTF is to force offensive style maps.&nbsp; The Q3/QL community has suffered greatly in CTF since it&#039;s turned into TDM more or less.&nbsp; I don&#039;t want the IDL to turn into TDM and super low scoring matches.&nbsp; I remember back in past seasons where running 2O setups was a common occurrence.&nbsp; Whenever we have crazy back and forth flag intensive game in priv I think people really enjoy it.&nbsp; Afterwards people make lots of comments and you can tell their interest and energy level is high.&nbsp; After a slow 15 minute frag fest grind in priv people want to go take revenge on LordBritish.