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	(7162, 691, 22, 1342487532, 8, 7174, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 1342823616, 'HumanBones', '[b]Week 2 Missing Demos[/b]<br /><br />[u]BSK[/u]<br />BloodStrike<br />GaX<br /><br />[u]SXP[/u]<br />[s]Ru5tK1ng[/s]<br />[s]Legion<br />[/s]<br />[u]WAD[/u]<br />[s]ItalianStallion[/s]<br />Nosturi<br /><br />[u]SUC[/u]<br />[s]Ralphis[/s]<br />[s]LordBritish[/s]<br /><br />[u]MAD[/u]<br />Doomguy666<br />Climhazzard<br />Xyltol<br /><br />[u]KGB[/u]<br />Tai<br />Caboose<br />DemonSphere<br /><br />[u]SGS[/u]<br />Hatred<br />Shakal<br />Collision', 'xx', 1);
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	(6524, 570, 20, 1331610742, 64, 6524, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'BloodStrike', 'casianoortega@live.com', '107.2.106.65', 1, 0, '', 'Typical abuse of power from none other than an IDL board member.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5522, 545, 17, 1322726365, 214, 5522, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.31.151', 1, 0, '', 'Although having 2 spawns only working is basically makes the map broken in terms of what it was intended, this brokeness is what gives the map a charm kinda how rjump gives 08 its charm. From what I gathered, having all six spawns work really didn&#039;t make the map significantly better in the eyes of players who actually played on the 6-S version. I remember the night my fix was put on the server and we played it. Some players said it was ok and others really didn&#039;t care too much for it. As of my posting the poll results are favoring the 2 spawn version. Yes its been played with 2 spawns for a year and really that doesn&#039;t really mean much. If the added spawns made the map much better, I would argue for the fix to be implemented. However, since this isn&#039;t the case, I&#039;ll vouch to keep the 2 spawns. I mean really those 2 pistol spawns at the lower entrance don&#039;t help for shit if a flag runner is leaving the base. Maybe if that chaingun was on the same side as the spawns, it&#039;d make a difference. Dunno, maybe we should poll on which exact spawns to keep ;D<br /><br /><br />Fuck the warsow textures.<br /><br />P.s. interesting to note that cab doesn&#039;t even like his own map.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5531, 545, 17, 1322761425, 19, 5531, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 1322761595, 'Xenaero', 'Okeydoke. Excuse me if this post comes off as anything but respectful, but I still am baffled how you can be so shortsighted on this.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=545.msg5530#msg5530 date=1322758708]<br />And yes, I would want you to point this out to me. Maps like 29 give you pistol spawns but either way you run, you will pass a super shotgun en route to chasing the flag carrier.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I will assume you mean your path takes you to a SSG on your side of the base rather than the map overall. Assuming this, and limiting it to pistol spawns only even though many players will for instance go for SSG off a SG spawn in map01 anyway, the following maps and spawn sets that meet this criteria (Pistol spawns, backtracking to a ssg being the only path to one on your side of the map, on maps not replaced in the wad) are as follows:<br /><br />I like to think MAP02 was played in a previous season, where there are multiple poor pistol spawns, but I will file it as uncertain in the criteria specified!<br />MAP08 (3 spawns)<br />You could argue that MAP15 has 4 spawns that fit this criteria, but it will be excluded because there&#039;s no real mid separating team-owned areas.<br />MAP16 (1 spawn, near soulsphere)<br />MAP17 (4 spawns)<br />While the most accessible SSG is in the middle in MAP18, you could spend time getting a SSG in the spawn alcoves, which would be backtracking from the 2 hallway spawns.<br />While you don&#039;t spawn on top of a SG in the MAP20 outside spawn, it is directly in front of you.<br /><br />So there you go, for that specific criteria, you have 3 well-played, often-picked (maybe not map16 so much) veteran maps with serious pistol spawn to SSG route problems! I anticipate your counter argument. I expect you to post specific theoretical movements defenders would take in each spawn.<br /><br />However, I think a better argument would be chasing without a weapon other than pistol in your &#039;pickup path of persuit&#039; at all! Upon which a few of those listed examples present themselves under that as well.<br /><br />In addition, I would like to pose the following question: What is a left for dead spawn? To me it&#039;s similar to when you get the far hallway spawn in map26 and helplessly watching the runner fly out of your base on the other side, well outside your range of engagement. Some good that SSG does!<br /><br />[quote]I didn&#039;t have a problem returning flags. ;)[/quote]<br /><br />Did I mention I did? If you want to bring this into play, I would figure after Turska demolished you in Week 2 of last season that you would at least recognize the dangers defense face no matter the spawn system on a map like that where spawns are wide and vulnerably placed. Your arguments to me are very poorly written and contrived. I could additionally go through all the maps and give you scenarios where spawns [b]with[/b] weapons can work against you due to their position in the map, but that would be a lot of conjecture.<br /><br />I&#039;ve pioneered a style of map28 defense that has been used effectively by myself and other defenders. Would this change using 6-spawns? I can&#039;t say. It&#039;s likely. I wonder why you are so afraid of this, if you don&#039;t have a problem returning flags and are quite fine with very disadvantageous spawns on other maps!<br /><br />What more would you like me to do?<br /><br />Edit: Oh great you edited after I had the reply box open while I went through all the maps. It is irrelevant. I accounted for this.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6490, 630, 20, 1331485643, 16, 6490, 'Re: IDL WINTER 2012 ALLSTAR SELECTION', 'Tai', 'Tai223236@yahoo.com', '98.216.91.67', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Soul Sucka link=topic=630.msg6475#msg6475 date=1331307834]<br />Capo, you&#039;re not on a roster currently... Nice try though.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Um...<br /><br />[quote author=Gilgamesh link=topic=630.msg6458#msg6458 date=1331242439]<br />[list]<br />[li]Voting is open to any active players [b]or free agents[/b] in the IDL.[/li][/list]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I do believe Capo is a free agent, isn&#039;t he? Read more, please. ::)<br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(6021, 570, 20, 1327334269, 163, 6071, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.131.248', 1, 1327432906, 'Hatred', 'Being that it&#039;s Monday morning and we have some misunderstandings of when the cut-off is to upload your demo, I&#039;m going to post outstanding demos early. Just so you know, DR_Noob has yet to submit a demo for week 1. Armour served an infraction. <br />So here we go:<br /><br />[b]The following players listed still have an outstanding demo from week 3 (map05):[/b]<br /><br />Whiteboy<br />Legion<br />Russiandumbass<br />[s]turSKA[/s]<br />Lordbritish<br />[s]Armour[/s]<br />[s]MadV[/s]<br />Nostar<br />DevastatioN<br />Shadow_Ghost<br />[s]Tai[/s]<br />[s]RustInPeace[/s]<br /><br />Please upload any and all outstanding demos as soon as possible. Failure to do so can result in a demo infraction. ', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7161, 667, 23, 1342480229, 19, 7161, 'Re: Blue Division Results &amp; Demos', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', 'I played Spider<br /><br />d5m1 50-20 my favor<br />moo2d 50-33 my favor<br /><br />Screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/Usr1A<br /><br />Demo: http://xen.unidoom.org/doom/mac/mac2012-xenvsspider.zip', 'xx', 1);
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	(8615, 827, 17, 1362445591, 157, 8615, 'Re: Someone else quits', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '173.59.166.160', 1, 0, '', '[img]http://i.imgur.com/hQy3C.gif[/img]', 'xx', 1);
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	(7237, 691, 22, 1344737383, 19, 7237, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=HumanBones link=topic=691.msg7228#msg7228 date=1344378692]<br />[b]Super Shotgun Spurs[/b]<br />Shakal - First infraction. Powerplay served during SGS vs KGB in Week 5.<br /><br />[b]Killing Browns[/b]<br />Caboose - First infraction. Powerplay served during SGS vs KGB in Week 5.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/OkvNb.gif[/img]', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7387, 716, 17, 1346211525, 2311, 7389, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'FrankTheTank', 'frankdt1234@gmail.com', '65.78.62.158', 1, 1346250588, 'FrankTheTank', 'Honestly i thought the same thing about the jump.&nbsp; It seemed a little to easy but the base has a wide opening and the jump has a spawn right next to it so I thought I&#039;d give it a try.<br /><br />As for the way the map looks it was all an accident really.&nbsp; The base kinda looks like map 29 while the middle looks kinda like map20.&nbsp; I can probably switch it up if it&#039;s not original enough.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7185, 699, 22, 1342933885, 0, 7185, 'Re: WEEK 3 - MAP15 ZDCTF15 (JUL 16 - JUL 22) - Discussion and Results', 'Soul Sucka', '', '177.42.12.156', 1, 0, '', 'Capo is a prophet.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7497, 728, 1, 1346774953, 0, 7497, 'Re: Dear Ladna.....', 'Soul Sucka', '', '189.114.179.185', 1, 0, '', 'As far as I can remember, he was moving out or something, which is why he didn&#039;t captain this season as he was initially supposed to.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5477, 542, 20, 1322626154, 216, 5477, 'Re: W2012 Invite List', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '174.92.62.239', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=TheKillerNacho link=topic=542.msg5475#msg5475 date=1322605741]<br />I&#039;m posting here to &quot;confirm&quot; my invite. I tried sending some PM on IRC, but just in case ...<br />[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=HumanBones link=topic=542.msg5456#msg5456 date=1322056235]<br />Invites bolded are confirmed players. Invites with a strike out are those who denied their invite.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />;)', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5478, 544, 17, 1322626884, 2121, 5478, 'Let''s Talk About The Board', 'chow', 'donotreply@linuxmail.org', '99.119.77.122', 1, 0, '', 'Ok, someone had to break ground on this. Let&#039;s break in the open-discussion and criticism of the board as of late.<br /><br />Me, personally I think it&#039;s run way beyond its course. Majority of us have forum accounts. The need for a cheaply elected and [b][u]oft-abused[/u][/b] board of players to represent the player base is not needed anymore. The board has been sleazy, blind, and isolated throughout the years.<br /><br />Ideally, I would rather see decision making via democracy vote by a means of where we can have organized communications, such as the forum. The majority of us have accounts here, and the forum is underused as a tool of opinion. It would take some time to have people use the forum more, but I think the newly emphasized focus on the forum can garner more formal discussions about IDL as opposed to the dickwaving we all love to partake in on IRC. Now this has the potential for having idiots en masse, so I think we should test the waters first.<br /><br />Either way, the current board has made terrible choices. From the hilariously bad map selection to poisoning the integrity of the board with shady PM deals over votes and rules, I think action needs to be taken on the board after all these years.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Lately, to be specific as to what sparked this, is the problem regarding the wad map selection. The board seemingly does not playtest any new maps that get included, nor does it take into consideration the playability of current maps when they get removed (HELLO 07 and 19!). Even more aggravating was the reversal of textures for map32, which turns it into a blinding spectacle for many players and as a result would now see even less playtime.<br /><br />So let&#039;s hear it. What do you have to say?<br /><br />[b]TL;DR[/b]: Board makes us&nbsp; &gt;:( and not&nbsp; ;D.', 'thumbup', 1);
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	(5520, 544, 17, 1322718980, 213, 5537, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 1322767897, 'MassVC', 'This will be directed at Ralphis.<br /><br />First of all, the distinction between essays and bullet points is swiftly blurring.<br /><br />Yes, you are great.<br /><br />Yes, you made the IDL.<br /><br />You and Ladna made decisions in the best interest of the IDL.&nbsp; So do we.&nbsp; Nobody said you didn&#039;t.<br /><br />You and Ladna care about the players.&nbsp; So do we.&nbsp; Nobody said you didn&#039;t.&nbsp; You didn&#039;t hold public discussions with them to find out what they want, but I&#039;m sure you gathered this through conversation and educated guessing.<br /><br />You seem upset that we don&#039;t &quot;straight up tell people that we were making the decisions and that&#039;s the way it was,&quot; and that we are checking our decisions with the players instead.<br /><br />What does Rust&#039;s thread have to do with anything?&nbsp; Are you suggesting that I didn&#039;t recommend any maps for inclusion or exclusion?&nbsp; That is obviously false.&nbsp; I didn&#039;t do it in that thread, but why should I?&nbsp; Players don&#039;t need to know my opinions; I need to know theirs.<br /><br />And we did read that thread, and the maps we discarded are often mentioned there, the maps mentioned there commonly discarded.&nbsp; That is not a coincidence, but straightforward evidence.&nbsp; Of course, it wasn&#039;t our only source of selecting maps to remove--that would be absurd--but we took it into account along with several other mediums of player feedback.<br /><br />The thing is, I honestly don&#039;t care whether players suggest new maps or not.&nbsp; My point is that, if they don&#039;t suggest new maps, then they have no place to stand and complain about the new maps.&nbsp; And they still haven&#039;t.&nbsp; Although I&#039;m glad that Gilgamesh is taking this in a productive direction.<br /><br />You told me, if we keep any map, we have to keep map32.&nbsp; Do you really think &quot;the players&quot; wanted map32 to stay?<br /><br />I playtested every single map.&nbsp; Several times.<br /><br />We introduced more than one map players are uncomfortable on.&nbsp; Some maps still haven&#039;t gotten a single serious game, and I can&#039;t take their rejection very seriously until they do.<br /><br />I really never said anything about transparency, so should I just ignore those comments?<br /><br />Edit: Oh, you mean that voting thread I made two months ago.&nbsp; Yeah, I did do that.&nbsp; But that clearly was an instance of transparency, and I don&#039;t think it&#039;s ever been done before either?&nbsp; And I have the logs somewhere to show that those are accurate.<br /><br />I don&#039;t know what all of this (mostly incorrect) Albatross business has to do with my ability to legislate.&nbsp; I think it has to do with the fact that I&#039;m involved and attentive, and that I&#039;ve played more priv (and heard more comments about these maps) in the last year than anybody except maybe Prime.<br /><br />Being permanently banned from ZDaemon, on the other hand, forces us to use private servers and prevents us from advertising our league anywhere within the ZDaemon community.&nbsp; If we could advertise universally to users of the port on which our league is run, we could attract more new players and encourage league growth.&nbsp; But we can&#039;t.&nbsp; That is an example of an actual detriment to the league.<br /><br />Let&#039;s reevaluate in 2016.&nbsp; We slightly changed the draft format, put a cold period on all free agents, and put ZDCTF Map02 in the wad.&nbsp; Let&#039;s see whether this completely destroys the league or makes it slightly more fair and fun, OR makes it slightly less fair and fun.&nbsp; PROBABLY NOT THE FIRST THING.&nbsp; If you don&#039;t like the maps, don&#039;t play them.&nbsp; Or, let&#039;s just keep using idl2011.wad.&nbsp; Or, suggest better maps.&nbsp; I honestly don&#039;t understand what everybody is crying and peeing about.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(6022, 570, 20, 1327335166, 213, 6023, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 1327336703, 'Xenaero', 'Just to be clear, the cut-off is 11:59PM EST tomorrow (Tuesday) night.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7532, 716, 17, 1347146134, 214, 7533, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '65.71.124.111', 1, 1347159044, 'Ru5tK1ng', 'That pretty good Decay, can&#039;t wait to get these maps played. Also there&#039;s no need to worry about time, there is still a little over a week left before the deadline. I might make an extension as seeing this is usually a busy time for everyone who goes to school and work.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(8486, 811, 28, 1361503819, 2271, 8486, 'Re: my feedback for odamex', 'Dr. Sean', 'grandpachuck187@gmail.com', '75.48.74.141', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ru5tK1ng link=topic=811.msg8481#msg8481 date=1361478625]<br />Currently there is a server variable entitled &#039; sv_globalspectatorchat&#039;. When this is set to true, messages from non-players will be broadcast globally and messages sent through team chat displays as messages between spectators. When it is set to false, spectators messages will not be displayed to players in game and therefore all chat generated between non-players remains in &quot;spectator chat&quot;. This seems like a good idea in theory, however there were times when I had to communicate to players who joined a game but couldn&#039;t due to the flag being 0. This sv would function better as a client-side var.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I agree that additional chat related options for the client would be a welcome addition. Perhaps expanding the &quot;togglemessages&quot; command or turning it into a cvar to include different levels of messages desired like: 0 = no messages, 1 = team messages only, 2 = all non-spectator messages, 3 = all messages.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8246, 815, 17, 1360293498, 7, 8246, 'LIMITATION??', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '199.180.105.115', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;m consistently amazed by how dumb you are.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7760, 748, 24, 1350786619, 19, 7764, 'Re: Results and Demos', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 1350853902, 'Xenaero', 'The Best (0) - (20) Skull Squad<br />map1: 0-5 http://puu.sh/1gZiQ<br />map2: 0-5 http://puu.sh/1gZiy<br />map3: 0-5 http://puu.sh/1gZin<br />map4: 0-5 http://puu.sh/1gZi2<br />Demos: http://puu.sh/1gZgd', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8046, 777, 25, 1356739845, 216, 8046, 'Re: Draft Results Speculation Thread', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '70.26.77.209', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=nub_hat link=topic=777.msg8041#msg8041 date=1356656878]<br />I dont know the players well enough to talk about at length but here is a prediction for the regular season<br /><br />1. KGB (Tai LB Capo and Perrondon)<br />2. SXP (Bones Devastation Hex and Rude)<br />3. SUC (Ralphis Turska Naut and Dr Sean)<br />4. BSK (Soul Fluffles Dragon and Decay)<br />5. BAD (Legion Reck Dew and Beast)<br />6. KNF (Strangle Prime Spider and Roscoe)<br />7. WAD (Shane Rust Bojan and Quiksilver)<br />8. BBC (Ten Mass(?) Swift and Bless)<br /><br />I wouldnt mind surprise wins hoping for a fun season to follow<br />[/quote]<br /><br />completely backwards imo ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5480, 545, 17, 1322627764, 19, 5480, 'Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.181.136', 1, 0, '', 'Gentlemen, the board is on the verge of changes to the IDL wad, and would very much appreciate player opinion on a couple key issues. While the board is comprised of players looking to help make the IDL that much better to play in, on occasions like these, it helps to get the whole picture. This poll is unique in that it has 4 choices for 2 options. We would like you to vote your combination of preferences for both changes!<br /><br /><br /><br />[b]The first[/b]: Map28&#039;s spawn points.<br /><br />[b]Why this is under the microscope[/b]: This map has been played for many a season without all of the spawn points included in the map. Why is this? Many of the spawns are told by ZDaemon to not spawn any players on them, due to their proximity with nearby walls. Players could spawn inside walls, and the engine prevents this by flat out not spawning anyone there! Here is a picture illustrating the spawn points. The ones selected in red are the spawn points used now. The ones in green are the ones currently unused.<br /><br />[center](CLICK ME----- &gt; http://imgur.com/x7P5Q &lt; -----CLICK ME)[/center]<br /><br />[b]What we need you to decide:[/b] Keep the map the way it is and deleted the other spawn points forever ([b]2-spawn in the poll[/b]) [u]OR[/u] move the spawn points away from the walls so that all spawn points are now used ([b]6-spawn in the poll[/b]). And yes, this has to be combined with your choice for map32&#039;s textures.<br /><br />-----------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />[b]The second[/b]: Map32&#039;s Textures<br /><br />[b]Why this is under the microscope[/b]: The original textures have been reported by players to have been jarring to the eyes in games, and are too bright for their comfort. Ralphis had been contacted to make a replacement texture job on the map, and both are shown in this comparison, with the original textures being the solid-colors, and Ralph&#039;s textures being the Doom textures.<br /><br />[center](CLICK ME----- &gt; http://imgur.com/a/MSlgJ &lt; -----CLICK ME)[/center]<br /><br />[b]What we need you to decide:[/b] Vote for the original map32 textures or Ralph&#039;s map32 textures. And yes, this has to be combined with your choice for map28&#039;s spawns.', 'exclamation', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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VALUES 
	(6023, 573, 17, 1327336308, 213, 6023, 'Re: Spectator Spot Disputes', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', 'Hey guys, just to remind you, we&#039;re still having trouble getting games started on time because of full servers.&nbsp; Some of our players schedule their games before they have work or school or bedtime, and they need to get them played whenever they agreed to get them played.&nbsp; If it is within 10 minutes of a game, please check to make sure that all team players are in the server as well as Rottking and an administrator before you consider joining.&nbsp; Or, if you are already in the server and can count to 16 without seeing all of these people, please consider leaving.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6492, 630, 20, 1331486022, 19, 6492, 'Re: IDL WINTER 2012 ALLSTAR SELECTION', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.230.203', 1, 0, '', 'Don&#039;t vote for me. Do you think I will be of any use if the allstar game takes place when my average ping to tt now is 200?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7163, 698, 18, 1342487682, 8, 7163, 'Week 2 Missing Demos', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'Here is an early list of [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=691.msg7162#msg7162]everyone that still needs to upload their Week 2 demos[/url]. Please be sure to get them uploaded before your next game in order to avoid a penalty!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7187, 699, 22, 1342965694, 19, 7187, 'Re: WEEK 3 - MAP15 ZDCTF15 (JUL 16 - JUL 22) - Discussion and Results', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', 'Keep your eyes open for Nosturi to very awesome his way to victory.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7239, 691, 22, 1344765205, 157, 7239, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '71.116.2.206', 1, 0, '', 'I thought demo infractions were served on the players themselves, not on the team', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7533, 716, 17, 1347155248, 17, 7533, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'MionicDonut', 'Sparx7300@yahoo.com', '131.156.232.170', 1, 0, '', 'I was napping one day and I came up with a brilliant idea for a simple CTF map.&nbsp; Im going to figure out how to needlessly complicate it, then bring said product to fruition!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5492, 544, 17, 1322661775, 158, 5492, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '173.206.69.68', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=MassVC link=topic=544.msg5485#msg5485 date=1322632611]<br />&quot;Let&#039;s choose maps democratically!&quot;&nbsp; Great, let&#039;s do it.&nbsp; How?&nbsp; How do you use democratic votes to choose new maps for the wad?&nbsp; How do you decide how many maps to replace, which maps to replace, and which new maps will be introduced?&nbsp; What exactly would the vote be, and how do you process the results?&nbsp; I have some education on the subject, but I cannot figure it out myself.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />You take votes, dumbass.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7501, 728, 1, 1346816136, 1328, 7501, 'Re: Dear Ladna.....', 'Mobius', 'hustler_0ne@hotmail.com', '184.97.220.200', 1, 0, '', 'http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-child-seen-tied-up-in-van-in-cherokee-iowa/article_d17bb400-e7fc-5b9f-a2a1-ad44f0c28d07.html', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(9440, 963, 17, 1382927323, 214, 9440, 'What path exists for the IDL?', 'RustInPeace', 'ru5tk1ng@yahoo.com', '98.197.197.44', 1, 0, '', 'For those of you who weren&#039;t around for this season and for those who actually were, here&#039;s a break down of why everyone pulled out their hair. I will also load up storytime.exe as well.<br /><br />In case you haven&#039;t read the other topic I posted, what essentially happened during week 1 of the season sealed the fate of the entire season. For the first few days before and after the draft when people were playing priv and teams were practicing map06, there was a bug that caused the server to crash after a map restart had passed. Alexmax set up a debug server and I was able to crash the server and get the info of what was going on. Alex coded a single line fix and told Jenova to update the servers. Some how he updated from the trunk(?) and applied not only the crash fix, but a bunch of other untested bugfixes. This fact didn&#039;t come into light until way into the season.<br /><br />What followed was a shitstorm of bitching from a lot of players and a bit of bitching right back. Ultimately the core reason of why Bones moved the league from ZD to Oda deteriorated. The sometimes peaceful and often times not peaceful relationship between players and devs ended in spilled blood and bare scalps. One side saw too much bitching and screaming and the other side saw too little dev action. Regardless of who was at fault, the end result is this: [b]The devs don&#039;t really give a shit about what happens to the IDL and they will continue to code and develop according to their own time table The players do not want to have anything more to do with the port and most have probably have ran uninstall.exe by now[/b] (which means they&#039;re fucking stupid since the manual zip approach is much better).<br /><br />So the whole &#039;CHANGE&quot; campaign that was launched back in the summer of 2012 has backfired in quite a comical way. The whole reason IDL moved from ZD was because what was once a decent working relationship between the IDL administration and the ZDaemon devs turned 180 to the point where the IDL was unwanted. I was absent from mid 08- mid &#039;10 so I don&#039;t know about that middle history of IDL too well. But from what I understand, it was Kilgore who coded the voting system by request of IDL as well as a few other things. I don&#039;t know exactly what went sour (there&#039;s probably already a topic about that somewhere) but believe it or not, people were allowed to post about an upcoming season on the ZD forums at one point.&nbsp; Anyway, near the end of it, there was the option of the IDL going public and thus being allowed to advertise and get full backing from the ZD admins (or so the story goes) and the only thing that need to be given in return was Ralphis&#039; head on a platter. Even though Nostar and Mass tried to find a way to appease Kilgore, the deal fell through. Yes, they were actually considering going from private servers to public ones with Ralphis being banned and unable to play in his own league (yeah his team could have played their matches on priv servers and what not but everyone knew he wasn&#039;t going to do that at all).<br /><br />Aaaannnnnd fast forward to summer 2012 where the only options were: Stick with ZDaemon 1.08 and it&#039;s glorious bugs that were never going to be fixed since the source is closed or gamble with the 1.09 beta that sucked massively because all the attention was on Double Domination and we all know that went over as well as 4-way CTF. Ok there is more to the 109 story.<br /><br />At the end of the Winter 2012 season, people tried to get the 109 server binaries from the devs so we could pretty much get accustomed to the new version. But, the devs were only handing them out to select individuals and server hosts. So, IDL was stuck with no server binaries and no known release time table for 109. In addition, there was a story/rumor/whatever going around that the devs were actively looking for a way to nuke private servers in some fashion (someone chime in if they actually did do something in 109). If that is true, then they were basically saying: we don&#039;t want you faggots playing on our port at all. <br /><br />So yeah, IDL moves from ZD to Oda with the promise of a better future and here IDL is back at square one. What is the next step? Two bridges have already been burned and who knows if crossing the last bridge will even be worth the time and effort. Evidently, the Commissioners need to make a decision soon and end all questions. Will the IDL move to Zanbabwe or just die. Will Watermelon and Jenova actually help code and put up a site and working stats mechanism or are they just all talk? Will there be a working relationship between the IDL and Zan devs or will the IDL be hated from day one? If there is a working relationship will history repeat itself?<br /><br />It&#039;s easy to say, lets move to Zandro but there are a few things that need to be sorted out: sites, stats, demo repo etc. If the IDL leaders aren&#039;t going to be 100% committed to moving, then there is no point at all in considering a move. So hopefully soon everyone will get an official statement: Move or die. Even death wouldn&#039;t be a bad thing. If IDL dies completely, [b]a whole new group of people[/b] can enjoy running a CTF league on Zanzan or there will be no more leagues, CTF dies and everyone will finally find new games to play. So Bones and Dew, what&#039;s it gonna be?<br /><br />/storytime /srsbizness', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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VALUES 
	(7563, 716, 17, 1347837148, 2174, 7563, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'Decay`', 'systemdecay@hotmail.ca', '99.243.41.44', 1, 1347837356, 'Decay`', 'well well, let&#039;s see<br /><br />Map07: unknown by rustking<br /><br />Map isn&#039;t there. GG<br /><br />Map01:<br />Map02: Cannabis by Capo<br /><br />Missing a bunch of textures<br />Looks pretty shabby but I guess that&#039;s fine for a first map. The layout is pretty dull and doesn&#039;t look like it offers much. The teleports all lead to red base. I dunno what the intent was, but I suppose they need fixing.<br /><br />Map03: untitled by Frank<br /><br />This does indeed look like a hybrid of map29 and map20<br /><br />Unfortunately, unlike those 2 maps, this one looks to be lacking some depth. The blue armours will definitely help runners barge through. I dunno, I think it could be fun. I don&#039;t know why you put the SG there if it&#039;s not a spawn though, very few people are going to willingly change SSG for a SG. <br /><br />map04: Triple J by Donut<br /><br />TEXTURES<br /><br />Also doors/lifts fucking everywhere! The teleport is way too easy to camp. Please do something about that. Map could play out interesting, I like crazy maps.<br /><br />Map05: untitled by nubhat<br /><br />it&#039;s definitely a beginner map, I would guess your first? The long halls with the chainsaw and teleport are a big no imo. This is more of a pub map i think, it would need some reworking to be idl worthy, whatever that means. This reworking would ahve to be done in the middle though, right now there are too many levels and walls. Also, there needs to be one more stair added at some point so you can move smoothly and not out of the way to get up.<br /><br />Map06:<br /><br />Map08: Withered Walls by Meph<br /><br />I like this one. The one-way teleports could be denoted with GATE4 though. I&#039;m just wondering if it will be too much choke with the one main entrance and said entrance being a long hallway. The lift revealing the flag room is borderline pointless because any competent D could cover it with ease, plus the fact you need to go to the next room over to get to the flag. I like it, but that&#039;s because I like grindy maps. And I think this would be grindy as fuck.<br /><br />map09: Simpleton&#039;s Delight by Donut<br /><br />Well, it&#039;s definitely a simple map. The entire mid area there is pointless, if the BA wasn&#039;t there nobody would go there. OH SHIT i just noticed the switch that made the mid relevant. With a good team it would be a cool map, but for me it&#039;s too bland.<br /><br />Edit: oh fuck I just noticed map10!<br /><br />Map10: untitled by nubhat<br /><br />Another pub map. In fundamental layout looks though, this one would work better than the other I think. The mid is more defined and there is less walls obscuring the view. I know you are new, so I would recommend checking out the more popular IDL maps, see what makes them fun and what features they have. Keep practicing your mapping and you will be mapping great maps in no time!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8047, 777, 25, 1356760487, 0, 8047, 'Re: Draft Results Speculation Thread', 'Soul Sucka', '', '187.112.63.220', 1, 0, '', 'you&#039;re completely backwards', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7761, 748, 24, 1350787370, 2313, 7761, 'Re: Results and Demos', 'nub_hat', 'mikaelhhome@yahoo.dk', '80.196.10.175', 1, 0, '', 'The Best (0) vs (20) Skull Squad<br /><br />Map01: The Best (0) - (5) Skull Squad<br />Map02: The Best (0) - (5) Skull Squad<br />Map03: The Best (0) - (5) Skull Squad<br />Map04: The Best (0) - (5) Skull Squad<br /><br />Demos: http://www.mediafire.com/?tq0170dqc4oy5q1 (nub_hat pov)', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8247, 815, 17, 1360294661, 2, 8247, 'LIMITATION??', 'mikefails', 'fearedful12@yahoo.com', '24.18.104.99', 1, 0, '', 'To be fair, I don&#039;t think legion is actually a person, more likely a clump of slime that aggregated from underneath the lid of a toilet seat that flops about on the keyboard attempting to be insightful.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8763, 846, 29, 1364024037, 2313, 8763, 'Re: March ''13 Open Tournament Sign Ups', 'nub_hat', 'mikaelhhome@yahoo.dk', '93.167.8.70', 1, 0, '', 'signups ended last month but if you wanna play some duels on gw16 just ask in #idl I&#039;d be happy to play some', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5481, 544, 17, 1322628746, 19, 5481, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.181.136', 1, 1322628897, 'Xenaero', 'Well, I had made a topic [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=545.0]here[/url] about hotly-contested changes in the WAD that while we did vote on are subject to player opinion regardless due to these changes being more heavy-duty than just board judgement.<br /><br />That aside, I don&#039;t know if you wanted the board dudes to reply here or it&#039;s a rallying point for upset IDLers but seriously. The board has fucked up on some things and will fuck up on more in the future, this is not specific to any one makeup of board members. Pretty much any group of people will fuck things up because there&#039;s no possible way everyone can be satisfied about everything. Especially with a huge volatile group of players that Doomers are.<br /><br />I would like to see these shady PM deals over votes and rules. All the discussion I&#039;ve seen and participated in has been in the board channel. I will be frank, it is true that maps were not tested in any capability. Dew will attest that he had wanted this and so did I. In the end we were all voting on sheer intuition on how we thought maps were going to play when there&#039;s no way we could have known and no way we will know unless they get played in the IDL season. That is the test of implementation. I very much oppose map replacements for this reason if they&#039;ve not been been tested. I support map changes for this reason because they will be tested in the upcoming season(s), and then we know if it is good! Nothing is truly set in stone.<br /><br />I kind of have to think, though. The advantage a board of experienced players, although pretty disorganized by my admission as of right now, is the ability to go &#039;Well, lots of people might not like this but this is a change that could benefit the IDL.&#039; without a massive group of people swaying one way or the other and deciding off sheer popular vote. One thing we are doing is that on hot button issues like team names, map32 textures and map28 spawns so far, we&#039;re trying to get concrete stats on player input before proceeding.<br /><br />I doubt anyone on the board will say we&#039;re perfect. No group of players can be! And that includes the majority of the IDL, especially the most loud, opinionated ones, like you and me. In the end the result would be the same, but I think there would be far less control over the direction the league goes on. Again, that&#039;s opinion. I don&#039;t know for sure. All I know is I was asked to serve on the board by the Commissioner and I&#039;ve done my best to help out. Sorry it hasn&#039;t turned out well!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5482, 544, 17, 1322630313, 157, 5482, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '71.115.103.83', 1, 0, '', 'not having a board would probably not be any better than having a board. for example, lets take a map voting session. the board does extensive testing on each map and whatnot. lets assume a group of people consisting of 16 players are appointed (woah hey fundamental flaw #1: not a true democracy!) by a scrounging group of morons begging for scraps like hobos that I commonly abduct bi-weekly that is the &quot;idl democracy&quot;. for a true democracy to work every person would need a say in everything and everything that takes place. (flaw #2: EXTREMELY time consuming) (flaw #3: morons would vote on things. I don&#039;t want jarin making my idl map decisions, thank you!) and its quite common for people to get shunned out of decisions. say for example a guy named Jared brings up a suggestion that sounds reasonable to some people, stupid to others. the people who think its stupid are very vocal and yell at jared for eating shit for breakfast or something. jared doesn&#039;t bring anything else up, even though some of his suggestions may be very valid! (flaw #4: some people get discouraged from speaking up)<br /><br />in the end, while the board IS flawed, its better than pretty much any other choice I can think of. ', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5519, 544, 17, 1322718827, 163, 5519, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 0, '', '[quote=&quot;Ladna&quot;]I humbly recommend that HumanBones nominate either LordBritish, Hatred, or Jenova for mikehail&#039;s hallowed board seat.[/quote]<br /><br />I would accept it if I wasn&#039;t available for roughly 4 hours a day at the worst possible time. I don&#039;t think it would be fair for me to accept it because I&#039;d rarely be around during the most active dialogue between board members. Here are people I&#039;d consider though:<br /><br />Jenova, LordBritish, Chow, Ralph, Rust, Gilgamesh or Ladna!!!<br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5489, 544, 17, 1322651854, 2121, 5496, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'chow', 'donotreply@linuxmail.org', '99.119.77.122', 1, 1322673428, 'chow', 'Although I&#039;ll respond to a few points, I would like to have more player opinions on the board as per intention. Nonetheless, I will respond to a few posts pointing to mine.&nbsp; ;D<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=544.msg5485#msg5485 date=1322632611]Anyway, I assume this is just rhetoric for attention-seeking&#039;s sake.[/quote]<br /><br />I appreciate your expression for dismissal, but you could have stuck to your guns with:<br /><br />[quote]---<br />&lt;Xen`-`&gt; I hope you all board people intend to reply to chow&#039;s topic<br />..<br />&lt;Mass&gt; probably not<br />---[/quote]<br /><br /> ;D<br /><br />[quote]Unfortunately most of the players (including you, although you just sort of made a comeback with the internet and so on) aren&#039;t very vocal, or haven&#039;t been until 12:20 AM today.[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m probably more vocal than anyone else when it comes to IDL. But hey, you don&#039;t talk to me, I don&#039;t talk to you. I&#039;m putting word out there now because I think it is something that needs to be discussed. <br /><br />Hell, I was the primary complainer about season length and bye weeks. Look at where those ended up after players began agreeing with me. The board took smart action listening to the voices in the player base and changed it around. It is something I look at with a slight array of hope when the board comes into discussion.<br /><br />Same thing with the map choices. I complained to no end and finally players are getting &#039;round to some of the BS this time. I&#039;m not trying to put it as a &quot;ME ME ME&quot; sort of thing, just some things are plain obvious and the board seems more or less isolated from the player base.<br /><br />We could do with some better involvement from the board. The better that is, the more successful the experience can be.<br /><br />BTW, you can expect more threads in the future.<br /><br />[quote]For example, see: http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=460.0.[/quote]<br /><br />Which is good. I&#039;m not slamming that by any means. There should be more of it overall.<br /><br />[quote] Only administrators or past administrators commented on the subject at all. You (all) had four months to respond; you didn&#039;t; then a couple of weeks later we voted on all of these changes.&nbsp; I can only assume that everybody loves our changes!&nbsp; Because they didn&#039;t say otherwise.&nbsp; If you can think of some way to get everybody to participate in these discussions that we haven&#039;t, be our guest.&nbsp; But know they already exist.[/quote]<br /><br />I do remember that time, and alot of people were totally unaware about the trade fiasco that amounted to that idea. Lack of information is key here, and a few people dropped the ball on that one.<br /><br />If even the players are less informed than myself well, something needs to be done.<br /><br />Secondly, as I said, the forum can be a more powerful tool. It is just underplayed in how great it can be. Look at how many people signed up here in order to post a sign-up for IDL. I&#039;m sure more than a couple would give some form of serious input if it was presented stronger.<br /><br />Typically, the board is seen as the final frontier, and like I said they just seem isolated from the rest of the players. I can&#039;t cut slack for people not <br /><br />[quote]I&#039;m not just being sarcastic.[/quote]<br /><br /> ::) (I love that smiley)<br /><br />[quote]I do appreciate you voicing your opinion[/quote]<br /><br /> ::) (Last time, I swear...)<br /><br />[quote]and if you look at the discussions I&#039;ve been involved in lately on the forums, you&#039;ll see that I am [b]100% in favor of democratically running the IDL[/b] (among, of course, those players who intend to play and thus will be affected by the voting).&nbsp; Unforunately, it is more difficult to do than to say.[/quote]<br /><br />I agree it gets difficult, which is why I suggested should changes be seriously considered that they be done progressively. You know, baby steps. After all, you have to crawl before you walk.<br /><br />[quote]&quot;Let&#039;s choose maps democratically!&quot;&nbsp; Great, let&#039;s do it.&nbsp; How?&nbsp; How do you use democratic votes to choose new maps for the wad?&nbsp; How do you decide how many maps to replace, which maps to replace, and which new maps will be introduced?&nbsp; What exactly would the vote be, and how do you process the results?&nbsp; I have some education on the subject, but I cannot figure it out myself.[/quote]<br /><br />I can rock with the exaggeration of my democracy (which was seen more as an end-goal in my post, but I know you guys like to pick tidbits and argue in absolutes&nbsp; ::)).<br /><br />We can all spot the bad maps from a mile away, many of us are extremely vocal about it, especially during privs. That in itself is a starting point. Just have a look at Xen&#039;s maps topic, which I HIGHLY commend him for. He took the initiative upon seeing the backlash on IRC to get something more organized going on the forum. The man should be applauded and awarded the proper blowjobs.<br /><br />It is just a starting point. MANY of us hate the Christmas map, map14, and would really appreciate bringing back ZD07.<br /><br />I guess this is slowly turning into more of the board not having enough ear to the community than anything else. But let&#039;s carry on!<br /><br />[quote]Now suppose there is such a fair system.&nbsp; (There isn&#039;t.)&nbsp; The problem, which is the same as with American democracy, is that most of the IDL players would not vote because they are teenage video game players who do not give a shit about draft order determination.&nbsp; I am not putting them down; we vocal players are the freaks who care about DOOM draft order while they are getting laid on the roof.&nbsp; Such a vote will reflect the vocal minority, not the opinion of the player base as a whole.&nbsp; That minority will not even attempt to reflect the whole of the players.[/quote]<br /><br />Right, this is one of those situations where the board can come in handy, but you beat me to it with...<br /><br />[quote]The board, on the other hand, is at least supposed to ask people what they want (again, the thread) and then try to decide what will be the most fun for the whole league.[/quote]<br /><br />...and that doesn&#039;t happen too often.<br /><br />[quote]This sounds like an accusation that there is a secret underground plot to put BPCTF Map26 in the wad for the board&#039;s personal gain, aheheahawheha..<br /><br />[size=5]AAHAFHEUHEHAAGHAHH[/size]<br /><br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br /> :o<br /><br />[quote author=nostar link=topic=544.msg5484#msg5484 date=1322631862]<br />I&#039;d like some evidence for the shady PM deals over votes and rules.[/quote]<br /><br />Right. I would [b]gladly[/b] paste logs from various leakers (glorious days in the DX channel), but as you know my all-knowing IRC log dating back to a couple years ago is stuck on another drive. Of course, anyone privy to these actions can gladly speak up, but I can only name one I&#039;ve personally been involved in since I have only played two seasons, which involved heavy PM lobbying of board members to get a player reinstated. Of course its just one situation, but I know it is minor compared to some other things I have logged up.&nbsp; 8)<br /><br />You could just write me off as a liar, but I have no reason to.<br /><br />But of course, even someone like you who&#039;s done a few can probably admit to such things going on, but most likely won&#039;t.&nbsp; ::)<br /><br />[b]EDIT: Actually found some logs on my iPod.[/b] And look what we have here, involving you no less. (starred named for privacy concerns&nbsp; ;))<br /><br />[quote]Oct 18 20:58:55 &lt;***&gt;	I dont think they will let me play<br />Oct 18 20:59:05 &lt;cha0tix&gt;	why not<br />Oct 18 20:59:07 &lt;***&gt;	so far I am told the board is not in favor<br />Oct 18 20:59:11 &lt;***&gt;	2-1 against me so far<br />Oct 18 20:59:18 &lt;***&gt;	3/5 rules<br />Oct 18 20:59:45 &lt;***&gt;	and I hear ralph can veto<br />Oct 18 20:59:54 &lt;***&gt;	and I hear he will veto me if I get 3<br />Oct 18 21:00:14 &lt;cha0tix&gt;	haha do you have to punk bill apter to get seen in a good light? this doesn&#039;t look good for you<br />Oct 18 21:00:31 &lt;***&gt;	well nostar got mike<br />Oct 18 21:00:34 &lt;***&gt;	he is trying to bribe Denny<br />Oct 18 21:00:44 &lt;***&gt;	and he can pull Ladna&#039;s tail<br />Oct 18 21:00:46 &lt;***&gt;	so I might get 3<br />Oct 18 21:00:57 &lt;***&gt;	but bones and mantis are deadset against me from what I hear<br />Oct 18 21:01:10 &lt;***&gt;	cause they want reliable people I suppose<br />[/quote]<br /><br />One more...<br /><br />[quote]Dec 11 20:02:04 &lt;***&gt;	Nostar is blackmailing him<br />Dec 11 20:02:14 *	cha0tix leans in.<br />Dec 11 20:02:15 &lt;***&gt;	He is threatening to quit<br />Dec 11 20:02:24 &lt;***&gt;	cause he hates the board members and new rules[/quote]<br /><br />Of course just one tidbit mentioned in passing in #DarkAlley. I&#039;ll keep looking.&nbsp; :-*<br /><br />[quote]As to the issue of a &quot;true democracy&quot;. It&#039;s not an outlandish suggestion but the theory in practice would most likely get messy and bring a slew of new and unresolvable problems. First of all there is no hierarchy in this system, hence the unresolvable. Allowing that premise, you could resort to majority rule as the defacto standard for affecting change. I would say this is the likely course of events.[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;d imagine we wouldn&#039;t be in total unorganized chaos. We&#039;d still need a Fuhrer to kind of steer us in a direction as most leagues do. I&#039;d just gradually shift more decisions to the standard player base, or at least those who cared enough to vote.<br /><br />[quote]For instance there are a lot of people who go to school for physics. I don&#039;t. Should my opinion about the Relativistic momentum paradox be taken in the same stride as theirs? FUCK NO&gt;!@&gt;E#@[/quote]<br /><br />So the people who don&#039;t play shouldn&#039;t have as strong opinions as those that do? Someone said it best with &quot;instead of asking what is it going to take to get people who play to sign up, let&#039;s ask those that don&#039;t play what&#039;s it going to take for them to sign up&quot;.<br /><br />[quote]Additionally If it came down to sheer numbers in what affects change there is a phrase for that. It is [b]Mob Mentality[/b].[/quote]<br /><br />I see the vocal majority/minority as a great starting point for decision making.<br /><br />[quote]In that light I imagine we&#039;d be playing skulltag by now. Good job Chow you made everyone play ST. [/quote]<br /><br />Now now, settle down, thing won&#039;t be that drastic.<br /><br />[quote]Back to the point at hand. I&#039;m actually of a differing opinion on this subject. Being an active member of the board for about 3 months now I tend to believe things like this are best run autocratically. So yeah, I agree the board is a bad solution. On the other hand I think Chow&#039;s solution is naive, indicative of stupidity and by those merits, worse.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Of course my solution might be, it is why I opted to have a thread about everyone else&#039;s opinion on the board and what have you. I really do appreciate player posts here, and wished the board members didn&#039;t just shrug it off at first. I salute Xen for being the first poster and actually taking some initiative here.&nbsp; :-*', 'xx', 1);
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	(7902, 762, 25, 1355177078, 89, 7902, 'Re: Nawt Signing Up?', 'Solar_Flare', 'cdstrangle@gmail.com', '67.226.18.169', 1, 0, '', 'This is the same guy that almost quit IDL last season because Jenova was talking about signing up.', 'xx', 1);
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	(9441, 963, 17, 1382930705, 4, 9441, 'Re: What path exists for the IDL?', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '99.32.168.118', 1, 0, '', 'Skulltag International CTF League: International Doom League edition', 'xx', 1);
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	(6024, 573, 17, 1327337547, 8, 6024, 'Re: Spectator Spot Disputes', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'There are still issues unfortunately. I know everybody wants to watch the game in the server, but if teams can&#039;t get in that is a huge problem. When teams can&#039;t get into the server, games can&#039;t be played. Another problem is sometimes RottKing can&#039;t get into the server. Rott is trying to help out (without actually playing this season) by allowing the game to be streamed so even more people can watch it. That is pretty awesome, especially the commentary. The last issue is not allowing myself or another board member into the server to do stats/administrate. People have been kind enough to leave more often than not for me to do stats, so it&#039;s not [i]really[/i] an issue. In fact I have given up my spot recently to allow more people to watch, and that makes doing stats even harder. I don&#039;t mind, but sometimes I&#039;d like to get stats done right away so I appreciate those of you leaving when I ask.<br /><br />I bring all of this up because it has been discussed lately about making a rule regarding who can or can&#039;t be in the server during a game. I&#039;d rather not make any rules, because I think a lot of people enjoy sitting in the server and watching the game. It&#039;s fun, I enjoy it too. Unfortunately things happen and games get delayed for 10, sometimes 15 minutes. This has to stop. I enjoy sitting in the server but the stream is great and we should all try to take advantage of it. [b]Just be nice and leave the server so the other team and Rott can come in.[/b] I really don&#039;t want to make a silly rule about it.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6493, 628, 17, 1331486560, 75, 6493, 'Re: Dew, calm the fuck down', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCjGAgNHJ1c', 'xx', 1);
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	(7164, 697, 1, 1342521850, 4, 7164, 'Re: Who ddosing doomguy with xyltol ???', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '99.32.168.118', 1, 0, '', 'How do we know that this isn&#039;t all just one big conspiracy by Xyltol to get IDL members to fight and point fingers at each other? He&#039;s probably sitting at his desk munching on popcorn as he watches and occasionally stirs the pot on this ddos drama.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7500, 725, 22, 1346795419, 216, 7500, 'Re: IDL SUMMER 2012 ALLSTAR SELECTION', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '174.92.55.35', 1, 0, '', 'IDC:<br />ClassyStall<br />Nosturi<br />ElleBee<br />Tai<br />Capodecima<br /><br />WDC:<br />HumanBones<br />Fluffles<br />Rusty<br />WATERMELON<br />SoulSucka<br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(7534, 716, 17, 1347159109, 214, 7534, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '65.71.124.111', 1, 0, '', 'How about you make the simple part and show me it before the needless complicated part?&nbsp; :)', 'xx', 1);
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	(7564, 716, 17, 1347848902, 8, 7565, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 1347927142, 'HumanBones', 'I&#039;ll set up a server tonight so we can play tomorrow (Monday). Let&#039;s shoot for 8 or 9pm EST, we can probably get a decent priv going. The IP will be 74.91.122.209:18028.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7721, 743, 24, 1349916494, 2185, 7795, 'Re: Vengeance Sign Ups', 'Dragon', 'morgan.larsson@live.se', '90.231.165.57', 1, 1351988560, 'Dragon', '[b]Team Name: Bitch Please<br /><br />Captain: Dragon<br /><br />Members: Nautilus, Nevanos, Slyfox, Spider<br /><br />Contact: #idl[/b]', 'xx', 1);
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	(5483, 544, 17, 1322630592, 163, 5483, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 0, '', 'Some good posts so far.<br /><br />[quote=&quot;chow&quot;]Me, personally I think it&#039;s run way beyond its course. Majority of us have forum accounts. The need for a cheaply elected and oft-abused board of players to represent the player base is not needed anymore. The board has been sleazy, blind, and isolated throughout the years.[/quote]<br /><br />In theory, everybody voting sounds great. The issue you will run into is the inability to stay on course for a desired result. Popular vote often becomes too scatter-brained and nothing gets done as a result. It&#039;s a sad but true dilemma the idea of democracy faces. I&#039;m not opposed, I&#039;m just not sure it will work.<br /><br />The other thing to consider is how would things be handled in such a system? Somebody would have to organize the polls, somebody would have to finalize it. Unfortunately, that&#039;s not a task 70 willing IDL participants can do. It requires a shorter list and that&#039;s one strong part of why the board is in place. <br /><br />In short, I don&#039;t believe the system is broken. I believe the people currently working in the system could do a better job, I wouldn&#039;t go as far as saying they&#039;re broken either. Just in need of a few touch-ups.<br /><br />[quote=&quot;chow&quot;]Either way, the current board has made terrible choices. From the hilariously bad map selection...[/quote]<br />&nbsp; <br />This, I agree with. The map choices weren&#039;t just bad, they were the worst map choices of any IDL season in history. Perhaps they should junk the new maps (aside from a few, new maps are usually worked in) and go back to some maps that have been played and need no introduction. <br /><br />That being said, there is still time to fix this. I do think the board we currently have is capable of providing an awesome IDL season. The new maps are just unacceptable, however. Aside from Rust&#039;s map, Coll&#039;s map and perhaps even Josh&#039;s, all of the other maps are awful. We could be replacing BPCTF, Libraries, Brickrun, and a few others with good, proven maps. <br /><br />Other than that, I can&#039;t say I have much of an issue with the board. I accept that shady deals tend to happen, and while I&#039;m not in favor of it, the sad truth is that is how a lot of ground-breaking decisions get made. So I really won&#039;t get into that too much. <br /><br />In closing, fix the maps. They&#039;re garbage.<br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(5484, 544, 17, 1322631862, 130, 5484, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5478#msg5478 date=1322626884]Either way, the current board has made terrible choices. From the hilariously bad map selection to poisoning the integrity of the board with shady PM deals over votes and rules, I think action needs to be taken on the board after all these years.[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;d like some evidence for the shady PM deals over votes and rules. I&#039;m not saying it doesn&#039;t happen but if you&#039;re going to go all Linda Tripp on us at least have the decency to cite a source or two. Otherwise we can dismiss you as a Jenova-esque rabble-rouser. <br /><br />As to the issue of a &quot;true democracy&quot;. It&#039;s not an outlandish suggestion but the theory in practice would most likely get messy and bring a slew of new and unresolvable problems. First of all there is no hierarchy in this system, hence the unresolvable. Allowing that premise, you could resort to majority rule as the defacto standard for affecting change. I would say this is the likely course of events.<br /><br />One of the problems with this system is that the majority of people in this league (and most online gaming leagues) do nothing outside of participate, and some fail at even that most simple of tasks. While doing nothing doesn&#039;t prohibit any one from having an opinion it can be used as a weighting system of importance of those opinions. For instance there are a lot of people who go to school for physics. I don&#039;t. Should my opinion about the Relativistic momentum paradox be taken in the same stride as theirs? FUCK NO&gt;!@&gt;E#@<br /><br />Additionally If it came down to sheer numbers in what affects change there is a phrase for that. It is [b]Mob Mentality[/b]. In that light I imagine we&#039;d be playing skulltag by now. Good job Chow you made everyone play ST. <br /><br />Back to the point at hand. I&#039;m actually of a differing opinion on this subject. Being an active member of the board for about 3 months now I tend to believe things like this are best run autocratically. So yeah, I agree the board is a bad solution. On the other hand I think Chow&#039;s solution is naive, indicative of stupidity and by those merits, worse.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6494, 624, 20, 1331487480, 75, 6494, 'Re: Regular Season Awards Discussion', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'because in my totally honest opinion, and i might catch some flak for saying this openly, bloodstrike was NOT the rookie of the season. i&#039;d find it perfectly okay to nominate bloodstrike for the MVP, even though he probably wouldn&#039;t have won that one. on the other hand i don&#039;t think we should twist the meaning of words and close eyes in front of cold, brutal facts, just because we need to give bloodstrike a medal. just make up a new category, like the [i]mid of the season[/i] or [i]return to glory[/i], so you can finally give bloodstrike the honorary blowjob with a calm heart - if it can stay calm in front of his significant prowess.', 'xx', 1);
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	(8712, 847, 28, 1363288497, 19, 8712, 'Re: Odamex player movement compared to ZD', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.248.204', 1, 0, '', 'Yes,&nbsp; it [b]was[/b] working. And now I find my account has been deactivated.<br /><br />I should have copied and pasted that whole post into a text file. I knew better, but I didn&#039;t do it. I know they lurk here.<br /><br />Ah well.<br /><br />Okay, here&#039;s the run down, what Alex said &quot;You do what I hypothesize ZDaemon does and do a clientside extrapolation of the laggy opponent, which you will miss if you shoot at it.&quot; is in essence correct, with the exception of when the player changes height, then it resyncs and you can shoot at a stair-hogging opponent without any issue.<br /><br />The higher your ping was in 1.08 the more detached the sprite was from where you needed to aim to hit the opponent. This mean that low ping presented even more of an advantage. Many euros can confirm this behavior. I had images and a lot more text more thoroughly explaining this but that&#039;s the gist of it.<br /><br />Unlagged from 1.06 to 1.08 was entirely an illusion clientside.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7240, 691, 22, 1344785242, 7, 7240, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '71.46.96.209', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ladna link=topic=606.msg6178#msg6178 date=1328843289]<br />Though I currently have no legislative power, the fact remains that I&#039;ve written nearly all of IDL&#039;s rules and as such am an authority on what their intent was.&nbsp; Therefore allow me to clarify some demo/penalty issues that have come up this season.<br /><br />[b]What the fuck is a power play?[/b]<br /><br />Your team plays down a man until the power play elapses (usually 3 minutes) or the other team scores.&nbsp; If you have two power plays you play down 2 men.&nbsp; If you have three you&#039;re fucked.<br /><br />[b]So this means that after 3 minutes or my opponents score, that my other player can join?[/b]<br /><br />Yes.<br /><br />[b]Can&#039;t I just not use that player?[/b]<br /><br />No.&nbsp; &quot;Captains cannot substitute non-offending players to compensate for the power play; teams must play down a player for every penalty.&quot;<br /><br />[b]What if someone on my team doesn&#039;t upload a demo, but they aren&#039;t going to play in next week&#039;s game.[/b]<br /><br />It doesn&#039;t matter.&nbsp; &quot;Captains cannot substitute non-offending players to compensate for the power play; teams must play down a player for every penalty.&quot;<br /><br />[b]But what about this &quot;Players, not teams are penalized with a power play. The penalty cannot be transferred to a different player, and if traded the player will serve the penalty on whichever team they ultimately play their game.&quot; ???[/b]<br /><br />That&#039;s so teams aren&#039;t penalized for players they no longer have.<br /><br />[b]So that means if I trade away a player who didn&#039;t upload their demo, then I don&#039;t have to serve their penalty?[/b]<br /><br />Correct.<br /><br />[b]But what about the team I trade that player to?[/b]<br /><br />That team now has to serve the penalty.<br /><br />[b]Isn&#039;t that shitty?[/b]<br /><br />It&#039;s shitty that a team could serve a penalty for an ex-player, and it&#039;s shitty that a team could serve a penalty for a player who wasn&#039;t on their team when they incurred the penalty.&nbsp; Pick yr poison.<br /><br />[b]What if I have a player who gets a demo penalty, and I trade them to free agency?&nbsp; Does whichever team that picks him up have to serve the penalty?[/b]<br /><br />This isn&#039;t a situation we considered when making the rule, so I don&#039;t know.<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />FYI this took me all of 10 minutes to type out.&nbsp; I don&#039;t understand why Ralphis and I aren&#039;t the first people asked if there&#039;s any confusion about the rules.<br />[/quote]', 'xx', 1);
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	(7565, 716, 17, 1347905208, 17, 7565, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'MionicDonut', 'Sparx7300@yahoo.com', '131.156.232.225', 1, 0, '', 'The wad doesnt have the latest version of JJJ, not even versions in this thread...', 'xx', 1);
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	(5486, 544, 17, 1322637413, 163, 5486, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 1322637565, 'Hatred', 'Speaking of BPCTF: it&#039;s awful.<br /><br />I would like to know under what circumstances were the maps tested under? Were they organized 3v3 matches? Did everyone just join a server, run around and shoot with no ambition or attempt of a coordinated plan to truly test the map? By all accounts, I have to assume some of them weren&#039;t. Otherwise, out of respect for all the board member&#039;s skill and understanding of CTF, I&#039;d have no other reason to explain why some of these maps are in here other than saying they were tested with bots. Because some of them really are just that bad. <br /><br />I&#039;m sure you&#039;re wondering why I ask about the play-testing and I&#039;ll gladly explain:<br /><br />When the contest maps were introduced and setup for play-testing, the method in which they were tested in could be described as negligent at best. There was no effort to organize 3v3 coordinated matches, everybody just ran around and shot at people and tried to score. For the sake of shortening this ramble, I&#039;ll simply say the way in which they were tested was a step under public CTF. At least in public, both teams try to win. <br /><br />I&#039;ll give credit where credit is due, however, as I remember Fastidious and Mass really trying to pursue just that. The sad thing is, very rarely did they play in 3v3 settings. And I suspect that&#039;s where determination of what maps are deemed playable get skewed a bit. 4v4 and 5v5 is not 3v3. A 1st grader could tell you this. But to dig deeper, 3v3 does not inherit the same strategy or method of playing that 4v4/5v5 does. Therefore, you cannot say they were accurately tested&nbsp; for IDL games since they are played in 3v3 format. <br /><br />However, I will admit some maps can give you a good idea no matter how many players play in it. For example, I don&#039;t need to test map31 in 3v3 to see how it&#039;ll play. I&#039;d get a pretty good idea in 5v5. Granted, in 3v3 it would be a little slower as there are less players naturally, making coordinated attempts a little more feasible. Nonetheless, maps like that are straight-forward. <br /><br />Overall, this is what I&#039;ll say: Mass is correct, there is no conspiracy here. Nostar was also correct earlier tonight when he said nobody gets paid. In fact, people actually lose money to make this happen. So in that tense, we should at least show some gratitude for people making this happen and realize they&#039;re not perfect. But they, being the board amongst others, should understand their efforts would be fruitless without us and should take that into account. Both sides can be a little harsh and in order for us to move forward, we should do a better job of venting our frustrations with each other so we can move closer to productive discussion. <br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(5487, 544, 17, 1322644005, 7, 5487, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', '=== Democracy<br /><br />There&#039;s no way IDL&#039;s players turn out enough to vote on all the crap that happens.&nbsp; We might as well rename ourselves to International Democracy League.<br /><br />I think a revamped map selection process would be nice though.&nbsp; It&#039;s really a lot of work for the board, and they just get flamed every year anyway.&nbsp; I think something reasonable would be:<br /><br />&nbsp; - Last season&#039;s Masterbowl map must remain<br />&nbsp; - In order to vote you must participate in the majority of playtesting events<br />&nbsp; - The top 32 maps are selected for next year&#039;s WAD<br /><br />This could even be rolled into PCTF, but like Hatred said, not playing 3v3 on the maps is a stupid waste of time, but if 3v3 is forced the BAWWWWing from the peanut gallery will be unbearable, so maybe not a great idea.<br /><br />=== Forum Participation<br /><br />If I had the cash, I would pay per (substantive) forum post.&nbsp; Not even joking.&nbsp; Xenaero would be rolling.<br /><br />The best way to be heard and to be taken seriously is to make well-thought-out, opinionated, respectful forum posts.&nbsp; Please do this.<br /><br />=== Integrity<br /><br />There are two points I have about integrity:<br /><br />&nbsp; - IDL players who are competent and willing to act in good faith are hard to come by.<br />&nbsp; - Sometimes IDL admins have to do things that aren&#039;t specifically listed in the rules.<br /><br />I would say that what separates IDL from SICL or other crap tournaments/events is the integrity of the administration.&nbsp; IDL is the most professional Doom organization there is, and it prides itself on this fact.&nbsp; This has been the case because its admins:<br /><br />&nbsp; - respected each other, the players, and the history of the league<br />&nbsp; - acted on principle<br />&nbsp; - admitted and fixed mistakes<br />&nbsp; - had vision<br />&nbsp; - were leaders<br /><br />=== To the point<br /><br />A lot of people are upset about maps, notably the libraries, BP, and map32.&nbsp; I hate libraries and BP looks like junk to me (I&#039;ve never played it, but can&#039;t you just guard those bridges with rockets forever and ever if you&#039;re defense?), but I think map32 is OK.&nbsp; Sure it&#039;s bright.&nbsp; Wear sunglasses OR GO OUTSIDE YOU FREAKS FUCK.<br /><br />I&#039;d like the board to have a conversation about maps.&nbsp; Why they considered libraries or BP.&nbsp; I know at least dewww has positive feelings about the libraries, and he&#039;s not totally wrong - though I disagree with him.&nbsp; I think the community deserves to be able to at least talk to board members about their decisions, instead of this bullshit stonewalling that has become fashionable lately, which pretty much flies in the face of all those good qualities I listed up there.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6025, 591, 20, 1327340742, 64, 6025, 'Re: since we''re frivolously making new topics', 'BloodStrike', 'fat1802002@yahoo.com', '24.118.252.216', 1, 1327341233, 'BloodStrike', '[quote author=MassVC link=topic=591.msg6017#msg6017 date=1327299370]<br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=591.msg6011#msg6011 date=1327291395] Man up, say you forgot to record and you&#039;ll serve your penalty willingly.[/quote]<br /><br />That&#039;s exactly what I just said.<br /><br />[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=591.msg6013#msg6013 date=1327291851]I was unaware of what Bones had done concerning the missing demos[/quote]<br /><br />I know, man.&nbsp; I haven&#039;t heard from anyone who wasn&#039;t.<br /><br />[quote author=Jenova link=topic=591.msg6012#msg6012 date=1327291662]Any player who hasn&#039;t submitted a demo should be penalized.[/quote]<br /><br />I whole-heartedly agree.<br /><br /><br />You are all very good at repeating what I have already said.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />If you agree with what was said above, why did you even make a long post to argue your case? You could have been responsible and mature towards this situation, but instead you went through all this babbling about the rules and other players demo&#039;s.<br /><br />The bottom line is that because you did not even record a demo, you are in a special situation than those said players. Therefore, all you should have done was take the blame for your actions and maintained your level of maturity. It&#039;s a shame to see something like this from a board member, especially when there is no apology either.&nbsp; ::)', 'xx', 1);
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	(6495, 624, 20, 1331487951, 64, 6495, 'Re: Regular Season Awards Discussion', 'BloodStrike', 'casianoortega@live.com', '107.2.106.65', 1, 0, '', 'Dew..you are the only person that is still arguing your point. NOBODY CARES!', 'xx', 1);
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	(7166, 691, 22, 1342543804, 214, 7166, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '69.154.180.185', 1, 0, '', 'Sorry I was waiting for legion to upload his. I&#039;m gonna pull a shak and upload my teammate&#039;s demo. ;D', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(5490, 544, 17, 1322657220, 75, 5490, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'the current board has the most active and opinionated lineup ever since i&#039;ve joined it. there&#039;s a lot of arguing going on about, well, anything and everything. you have to understand that after 6 hours of tearing into each other in #idlb, one gets testy when a vocal guy in #idl decides our bloodied compromise is useless and dismisses the whole league because of that one issue. i will be addressing the public and i will speak colloquially, so don&#039;t take it personally when i say &quot;you&quot; and follow up with a small sarcasm.<br /><br /><br />on direct democracy:<br />--------------------<br />great concept in theory, but why do you think all democratic countries use representatives instead of referendums? people don&#039;t care enough about every issue to do their research and cast [i]an informed vote[/i], so they either don&#039;t vote or click an option willy-nilly, or worse, according to someone&#039;s advice. this leads to passing of populistic measures and deterioration of a robust system. also there&#039;s a lot of menial work to be done, but if no one&#039;s responsible, no one is accountable when nothing gets done or shitty rules ruin a season. the commish and the board are here to enforce smooth running of the league past the lack of care and negativity of the general public. anarchic self-policing will crash and burn, because IDL is not a small group of friends just having some games. once you get into the details, it becomes srs business.<br /><br />however i do like the idea of having public polls and discussions about general ideas and directions the idl should be headed in, before the board processes the output into coherent rules. BUT - this system is already in place. anyone can get off their fat ass to free up their hands and type their ideas for the rest of us. [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?board=17.0]see this forum?[/url] [b]use it.[/b] [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=452.0]look how much feedback[/url] the draft reordering idea (the first thread in this forum) got. we assumed everyone liked it or didn&#039;t care about it, so pardon us if we don&#039;t take you seriously if you cry about it [i]now[/i]. be active when it matters. we posted the poll about team names and the public feedback changed my opinion on the matter, which released the deadlock in the board and passed them, so don&#039;t think your opinion doesn&#039;t matter/doesn&#039;t change the IDL.<br /><br />and no, it doesn&#039;t count if you went on a tirade in #idl once. that&#039;s a general hangout channel and chances are half of the board wasn&#039;t there at the time and the other got distracted by a funny dickgirl video by rottking. it&#039;s why we have these forums and the board channel in the first place - and even there our discusson gets watered down by mikehail ranting about his kitchen adventures and bones pretending he cares.<br /><br />on the board &amp; shady deals:<br />---------------------------<br />i will want proofs of the vote manipulation you are talking about (directed at chow now), because if you have them, you will give me ammo for my constant struggle against nostar&#039;s coup d&#039;etat. because it&#039;s coming and it&#039;s going to happen if i blink in the wrong moment. must... stay... vigilant...<br /><br />seriously though, as much as i argue with nostar and mass on a lot of subjects (and believe me, it doesn&#039;t look like a tea break argument about cricket teams), i respect them enough to think they have the quality of IDL as their primary objective, as well as i do. not for ourselves as egotistic players, but for everyone. accusing them of plotting a fascistic rule of parity is my catchphrase, but i value their input, because they are smart, active, enthusiastic and willing to do the boring board tasks as well. me and the other board members just need to balance out their wacky antics every time a cartoon lightbulb appears over their heads.<br /><br />oh, and after a lost vote your usual board member will accept the majority opinion and move on - we all suffered losses and got ideas rejected. this is an important concept of maturity and it seems impossible for some princesses in the general playerbase who break down and quit the league in disgust over [i]negligible[/i] issues like a 1/32th of the idl wad not being to their liking (not aimed at anyone in particular).<br /><br />on map changes:<br />----------------<br />we made cuts. we introduced new maps. we got flamed to hell. deja fucking vu. this happens every year. people were going nuts over the changes from idl2010 to 2011, so i have to wonder... is the wad going gradually worse? or are people just projecting their accustomization to the current selection?<br /><br />i don&#039;t believe the public can conjure a better idl wad than we did. we went through a massive amount of wads and filtered them out relentlessly in rather arduous sessions. we voted and voted again and even with just 5 people on the board, there were 5 different opinions - and i&#039;m not even counting bones and the other people in #idlb whispering in our ears the whole time. there&#039;s no way the 50+ people out there can do that without some ugly shortcuts and &#039;cliques&#039; taking liberties with choosing for others.<br /><br />people [i]wanted[/i] change. you may disagree with a decision here or there, but please don&#039;t dismiss the whole process. you are disqualifying yourself from sensible discussion by saying all the cuts and picks are bad. you don&#039;t even know how good these maps really are, because you haven&#039;t played them enough and distinctive tactics haven&#039;t been fleshed out yet. this often happened only after a map was [i]forced[/i] by injecting it into the schedule and people had to start taking it seriously. map05, map12 and map28 are fairly popular priv picks nowadays, but they had zero playtime before their first league usage. a dismissive opinion after playing one or two 4v4&#039;s on a new map is a knee-jerk reaction and starting a massive campaign against the whole board because of it is silly. we&#039;re not a monolythic entity... you know what, i&#039;ll address our IDL wad decisions in a separate thread so the topic doesn&#039;t hijack this one.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5491, 545, 17, 1322660821, 216, 5491, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '174.92.62.239', 1, 0, '', 'It&#039;s funny because when there was only two spawns everybody complained too.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7506, 726, 22, 1346863673, 145, 7506, 'Re: Season 12 / Summer 2012 Playoffs - Conference Finals - Discussion and Results', 'Fluffles', 'petefredericknewton@hotmail.co.uk', '86.162.118.53', 1, 0, '', 'No offence to the other teams but I hope WAD plays SXP. That will be a sick game, especially if SXP won it, daaaaamn.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7535, 716, 17, 1347208982, 2317, 7535, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'Meph', 'cygrade@gmail.com', '82.131.80.239', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;ve been away from the Doom community for about 5 years, although recent chats with Xenaero and HumanBones have gotten me looking around again. I was really surprised to see one of my old maps, Generic Gray, used rather extensively in the IDL although the map does seem to be quite... polarizing. Anyway, I decided to blow the dust off my DB and make a map with competition actually in mind. It&#039;s hard to judge whether it&#039;s too easy or too hard to defend, so playtesting is required.<br /><br />http://www.speedyshare.com/NbYy3/idlsubmiss-meph-v1.wad', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7566, 716, 17, 1347927155, 8, 7566, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'Fixed IP, sorry.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7722, 743, 24, 1349924424, 2303, 7722, 'Re: Vengeance Sign Ups', 'Watermelon', 'watermelonst@hotmail.com', '99.242.222.134', 1, 1349925805, 'Watermelon', '[b]Name:[/b] Lemon Scented Towlettes<br /><br />[b]Captain:[/b] Redshirt<br /><br />[b]Members:[/b] Watermelon, Tor-bjorn, Lilith<br /><br />[b]Contact:[/b] #idl<br /><br />Additional spot will not be filled by anyone', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7763, 748, 24, 1350844806, 4, 7763, 'Re: Results and Demos', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '50.88.51.175', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Jarin_cz link=topic=748.msg7762#msg7762 date=1350827267]<br />why so much screenshoots , why<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Are you fucking kidding me<br /><br />It&#039;s obviously one for each fucking game capo what the fuck', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5493, 544, 17, 1322667119, 213, 5493, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Jenova link=topic=544.msg5492#msg5492 date=1322661775]You take votes, dumbass.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I was going to add, &quot;And don&#039;t say, &#039;You just take votes...&#039;&quot; But then I thought to myself, &quot;Surely nobody is such a giant fucking moron that he will come back with that.&nbsp; Surely anyone with the attention span and eyesight to read an English sentence can comprehend the most basic meaning of the question.&quot;&nbsp; And thank God Chow just isn&#039;t that stupid; this thread can go on.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5494, 542, 20, 1322668353, 147, 5494, 'Re: W2012 Invite List', 'LordBritish', 'a_west_2007@hotmail.com', '141.110.189.29', 1, 0, '', 'better safe than sorry. i also confirm my invite', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5495, 544, 17, 1322669605, 8, 5495, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '173.48.152.83', 1, 0, '', 'Okay! Let&#039;s start with map testing. We actually had TT servers up for a good 2 months with ports 15000-15013 for all the different wads we were going through. I can recall a number of times that dew, xen and I got a bunch of people from #idl to play through some of the wads (specifically 32-4 and 32-7), which was pretty fun. However, as the map picking process continued, some board members refused to go into the servers any further because they &quot;could just go through the maps on their own&quot;. Not a fan of this type of mentality, and I believe map quality suffered as a result. <br /><br />To tie maps in with democracy, and as much I believe map quality is lower than previous IDL wads, this type of complaining happens every season. There is literally no way to please all 70+ people who are a part of this community. I&#039;m really not opposed to input and voting from people other than the board. I think there should be a mutual understanding that not everyone gets exactly what they want all the time. Many recent issues have been posted on the forum in order to receive feedback. Whether or not you choose to air your opinion is really out of everyone elses control. <br /><br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=452.0]Winter 2012 Draft[/url]<br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=472.0]Number of Teams[/url]<br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=460.0]Trade Rules[/url]<br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=489.0]Forfeits[/url]<br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=494.0]Booting out maps[/url] &lt;- Please pay special attention to this thread.<br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=510.0]Even teams[/url]<br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=517.0]Another draft thread[/url]<br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=514.0]Captains[/url]<br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=522.0]Trading[/url]<br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=515.0]Team Names[/url]<br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=530.0]Servers[/url]<br />[url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=545.0]Map28/32 Changes[/url]<br /><br />That&#039;s just to list a few. A number of people have certainly posted their thoughts and concerns in these threads. However, we can only go so far as to use these threads to gauge what the public wants. I totally support your idea of having more people involved, but I cringe thinking about how much longer map selection would be with even 2 more people, let alone 50. <br /><br />Also so you don&#039;t feel alone, I also don&#039;t get what I want. I wanted more map playtesting, I wanted certain maps in the wad, I wanted the draft another way, I wanted map28 to remain with 2 spawns and I wanted Ralph&#039;s map32 retexture.&nbsp; I think what we need to focus on is map playtesting. I really can&#039;t say that enough. If certain board members don&#039;t want to participate because it &quot;takes too long&quot;, you need to quit and move on. It&#039;s not a ridiculous task to sit in a server and play maps for a couple of hours; you do it every night anyway. All in all, I don&#039;t think all of the new maps are bad. There are a number of them I like a lot, but of course only time will tell. The TRUE test (so it seems) will come from playing maps in an IDL season. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(5496, 545, 17, 1322671986, 163, 5496, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 0, '', 'I like the original broken 2 spawn only aspect of 28. Even with those two spawns alone, the map is so wide open that spawn controlling them doesn&#039;t seem to be feasible. I like ralph&#039;s retexturing because DooM2 does not look good with Warsaw textures. The game makes my eyes bleed enough as it is!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5497, 544, 17, 1322681943, 19, 5497, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 0, '', 'Clearly, the core issue here is map selection, so I&#039;m going to address that more in-depth now, because the arguing and the talk of democracy does not interest me personally, nor can I really make any decent points anyone else has not made. I can&#039;t speak for the rest of the board about map selection, but I will speak for my own board position on the matter.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=544.msg5486#msg5486 date=1322637413]<br />Speaking of BPCTF: it&#039;s awful.<br /><br />I would like to know under what circumstances were the maps tested under? Were they organized 3v3 matches? Did everyone just join a server, run around and shoot with no ambition or attempt of a coordinated plan to truly test the map?[/quote]<br /><br />I find it interesting you say BPCTF is awful, but I would like to retort with the same question. How often have you played 3v3 organized games in the same vein and level of consistency and competition as IDL on the new maps? Probably not enough to say if it&#039;s good or bad. All the priv games I&#039;ve participated in on new maps were 4v4. Not to mention via word-of-mouth I was unsuccessful in even choosing libraries as a map because no one wanted to play it. Why? Just because it was &#039;bad&#039;. It&#039;s a new, rather unique flowing map. No one can know if it will end up going from starting to be despised to being a semi-regularly picked map like map14, or if it will go the way of Ghoul&#039;s warehouse looking map and no one ends up liking it period. Although that example is a little contrived since the latter caused server issues. You see my point, however. And it is why I am slightly disgusted the board had voted to replace libraries before it had been played to an extensive or even in a serious degree. I hate some of the maps, but how can I say they&#039;re bad with any authority unless they&#039;re played in the [i]very league under the very settings they&#039;re intended to be?![/i]<br /><br />Regardless, you [b]do[/b] have a point about one thing. A majority of the maps ( I have no idea how many maps total were considered, but I would wager 200+ ) were not tested by the board due to the sheer difficulty I assume of assembling people to test them in an environment that could mimic the IDL&#039;s intense matches. There were cases where members blindly voted for maps without even looking through them solo! What really ended up happening was no one working on maps, and I mean no one, until it was a week or so from deadline, and is that enough to properly go through 20 or so WADs?<br /><br />Probably not. Should we have worked harder on filtering maps and seeing how well they [b]all[/b] play amongst ourselves? Yes. I do not believe this would have outright changed player opinion, though. There are quite a few maps in history that players at first would go &#039;why did this get in&#039; and end up liking it for the games it produces if not personally like how the map flows in a competitive match. We have the results of neither on any of the new maps.<br /><br />[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5489#msg5489 date=1322651854]<br />It is just a starting point. MANY of us hate the Christmas map, map14, and would really appreciate bringing back ZD07.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Well, see above. If everyone hated map14, I doubt it would get played as much. There&#039;s been well over a dozen unique players who have picked map14 in priv games. The worst is how people will apply the dislike of a few vocal players to the silent majority. I personally do not like map14, but that does not change the fact many more players enjoy it going off how often it is picked, which is much more so than 50% of the wad. So, instead of throwing a tantrum about how bad it is, it&#039;s far more productive to look at the map and see how you can evolve the style of play it sustains to better suit your playing method. I would also like to reiterate my point above the quote and say that there&#039;s not one person in the league who can know how IDL games will change or not change perspectives and results on new maps.<br /><br />If Doomers hate anything, it is change to something they&#039;re used to. Sometimes change has to be forced for the better. If you want to play the same maps and map styles for 10 years maybe IDL is not your thing. That&#039;s how I voted. I wanted maps in that would add something new to the map pool. In a vast majority of my preferred picks, they were eliminated in the system of voting we employed.<br /><br />In addition, no one is saying idl2012i, j, or even the last revision of the wad itself is the final IDL wad you will see. So don&#039;t pretend it is. It&#039;s not the end of the world. The maps you dislike based off conjecture may not even be played in the two seasons it takes for idl2013.wad&#039;s map voting to commence. On the other hand, you could be pleasantly surprised at how games turn out. The fact is, you don&#039;t know. I don&#039;t know! Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ doesn&#039;t even know. Not even James Mason can know.<br /><br />On the bright side, I&#039;ll know who in particular to highlight bomb if we decide to test a map. So progress is being made [b]already[/b], even if it&#039;s not the progress you, I, or others may want!<br /><br />That was a lot of words.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6026, 573, 17, 1327342200, 3, 6026, 'Re: Spectator Spot Disputes', 'Joshsmith', 'tonihawker666@yahoo.com', '99.9.212.71', 1, 0, '', 'Where does Rott stream?', 'xx', 1);
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	(8713, 828, 28, 1363288841, 19, 8713, 'Re: Unlagged.', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.248.204', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=JKist3 link=topic=828.msg8670#msg8670 date=1363051140]<br />My best guess is that when people criticize unlagged another problem is causing their issues<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Yeah, like playing on a source port with fake clientside unlagged for fuckin&#039; 18 million years.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7167, 697, 1, 1342544047, 214, 7167, 'Re: Who ddosing doomguy with xyltol ???', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '69.154.180.185', 1, 0, '', 'Clearly it&#039;s Mobius. Notice how he&#039;s not around. How convenient.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7242, 691, 22, 1344800440, 19, 7242, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=691.msg7239#msg7239 date=1344765205]<br />I thought demo infractions were served on the players themselves, not on the team<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Pretty sure this was one of the ahem changes talked about by the last incarnation of the board that was [b]supposed[/b] to be documented. Wasn&#039;t the only thing lost to the wind...', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7502, 728, 1, 1346822231, 7, 7502, 'Re: Dear Ladna.....', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '199.180.105.70', 1, 0, '', 'He got a TA job so that + grad school keeps him busy.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7536, 716, 17, 1347229813, 214, 7536, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '65.71.124.169', 1, 0, '', 'Looks pretty good. Interesting mix-up with the hallways of the base. I&#039;m not too sure about the lift, but most likely playtesting will reveal whether or not if it&#039;s a good idea.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7567, 716, 17, 1347944514, 214, 7567, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '69.154.176.171', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Mionic_D link=topic=716.msg7565#msg7565 date=1347905208]<br />The wad doesnt have the latest version of JJJ, not even versions in this thread...<br />[/quote]<br />From your change log, it appeared that only your second map had alterations. I&#039;ll fix JJJ for next release.<br /><br />For those who play tested earlier tonight, feel free to give feedback for the authors. In fact, I encourage you all to do so.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7723, 743, 24, 1349926235, 8, 7723, 'Re: Vengeance Sign Ups', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'Wow, more teams than I anticipated! I&#039;ve decided to keep the original date for the end of sign ups (which is today) to avoid this becoming some sort of monstrosity. <br /><br />In just a few days there will be a standings page with some pretty in depth stats courtesy of Ralph, but until then practice up! The tournament officially begins on Monday.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(7764, 748, 24, 1350850358, 19, 7764, 'Re: Results and Demos', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', 'in retrospect a spoiler tag would be nice to hide them.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7775, 751, 17, 1351213751, 8, 7776, 'IDL is now Round Robin!', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 1351214169, 'HumanBones', 'There has been quite a bit of discussion regarding just how important divisions and conferences are in an 8-team IDL league. We all agree that it works really well with 12 teams, but not so much with 8 teams. One thing that led the board and myself to believing there needed to be a change was that last season, KGB had homefield advantage over SUC despite having a worse record. Now I don&#039;t believe that it&#039;s the worst thing that can happen, but we all felt there was a more fair way to do things. <br /><br />[size=5][b] Regular Season Structure[/b][/size]<br /><br />What we&#039;ve done is removed divisions as well as conferences. So, what does this mean? This means the IDL is now round robin! All 8 teams will play the other 7 teams once in a shorter 7-week season. Gone are the days of division rivals; each game you play counts that much more towards your chances of making the playoffs.<br /><br />There are many upsides to this change: now, truly the teams that do the best in the regular season will secure a spot in the playoffs. This places much more emphasis on regular season games and teams should be very careful not to drop a crucial match. Additionally, the season is one week shorter, which is a relief for all of us. <br /><br />[size=5][b]Playoff Structure[/b][/size]<br /><br />What does this mean for the playoffs? Well, we toyed with a few different ideas, but we settled on a new 5-team playoff bracket. The teams with the top 5 records will make the playoffs. It works like this: the Wild Card round will consist of the #4 seed playing the #5 seed. The winner of that match will go on to play in the Semifinals against the #1 seed. #2 vs #3 will also be played in the Semifinals week. The winner of #1 vs #4 and #2 vs #3 will meet in the MasterBowl. <br /><br />Having 5 teams instead of 4 was important to me because I believe that there needs to be an incentive for teams that are struggling to keep playing. Not only does the 5th seed encourage teams, it will give us an exciting wild card match to open up the playoffs. <br /><br />Confused? Rust made a nice image that explains things perfectly: http://rust.unidoom.org/5playoff.png', 'xx', 1);
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	(6496, 630, 20, 1331491245, 0, 6496, 'Re: IDL WINTER 2012 ALLSTAR SELECTION', 'Soul Sucka', '', '177.16.81.147', 1, 1331491337, 'Soul Sucka', '[quote author=Tai link=topic=630.msg6490#msg6490 date=1331485643]<br />I do believe Capo is a free agent, isn&#039;t he? Read more, please. ::)<br />[/quote]<br />Yes, he&#039;s a free agent. I&#039;m talking about how Capo voted on himself.<br /><br />[quote author=Gilgamesh link=topic=630.msg6458#msg6458 date=1331242439]<br />[list]<br />[li]Any player voted on must currently be on a roster.[/li]<br />[/list][/quote]', 'xx', 1);
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	(8248, 815, 17, 1360296659, 157, 8248, 'LIMITATION??', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '108.12.75.220', 1, 0, '', 'how does wanting less luck in a competitive league make me dumb', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8144, 791, 25, 1358097442, 8, 8144, 'Re: BBC? More like BBCya', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'Thevarian and Whiteboy have stepped in to help BBC. Please send them much love and many thank yous for fixing a shitty situation.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(6027, 573, 17, 1327343004, 75, 6027, 'Re: Spectator Spot Disputes', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'http://www.twitch.tv/rottking/', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(5500, 544, 17, 1322682184, 213, 5500, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Jenova link=topic=544.msg5498#msg5498 date=1322681997]I doubt that the board wants to basically vote themselves off, so this thread is pretty much useless and accomplishes nothing.[/quote]<br /><br />Cool beans.&nbsp; Cya!', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5498, 544, 17, 1322681997, 158, 5500, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '173.206.69.68', 1, 1322682199, 'Jenova', '[quote author=MassVC link=topic=544.msg5493#msg5493 date=1322667119]<br />[quote author=Jenova link=topic=544.msg5492#msg5492 date=1322661775]You take votes, dumbass.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I was going to add, &quot;And don&#039;t say, &#039;You just take votes...&#039;&quot; But then I thought to myself, &quot;Surely nobody is such a giant fucking moron that he will come back with that.&nbsp; Surely anyone with the attention span and eyesight to read an English sentence can comprehend the most basic meaning of the question.&quot;&nbsp; And thank God Chow just isn&#039;t that stupid; this thread can go on.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Sorry you apparently don&#039;t know how to take votes. Things would be decided the same way, just on a much larger scale.<br /><br />Anyways, since I doubt this will ever happen, I&#039;m going to propose that we instead remove all board members and elect new ones based on what the community wants. The community would be able to vote for x amount of players that they think fit the position of IDL board member. Using this method, we could have a democratically elected board based around the community, instead of the current method where the board literally decides everything and player opinions are void.<br /><br />..Oh wait. That probably won&#039;t happen either. Why? Because you need a majority from the board. I doubt that the board wants to basically vote themselves off, so this thread is pretty much useless and accomplishes nothing. Go IDL!<br /><br />p.s: If it were up to me, I&#039;d just kick everyone off and reinstate Ralphis as head of IDL.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5499, 544, 17, 1322682155, 213, 5499, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5489#msg5489 date=1322651854][quote]---<br />&lt;Xen`-`&gt; I hope you all board people intend to reply to chow&#039;s topic<br />..<br />&lt;Mass&gt; probably not<br />---[/quote][/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m glad you had this opportunity to learn about what [i]probability[/i] means.<br /><br />[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5489#msg5489 date=1322651854]I&#039;m probably more vocal than anyone else when it comes to IDL.[/quote]<br /><br />There is no font size large enough for me to write out laugh text that appropriately characterizes my response to this remark.&nbsp; You are positively delusional.&nbsp; Some candidates for this title might be me, Ladna, Xen, Hatred, Fastidious, maybe Ralphis.&nbsp; Not you.<br /><br />Here is every single other thread in the IDL DISCUSSION forum.&nbsp; I have put an asterisk next to every thread in which you participated, accompanied by a quote of what you said:<br /><br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=545.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=537.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=541.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=528.0<br />* http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=530.0<br />[quote]DE Texas was nice but I&#039;d rather roll with something in Kansas or Nebraska. Omaha would probably be better for hosting as it is a bigger city than anything in KS but both are visually the most central in the US.<br /><br />You won&#039;t ping that much greater if you already ping good in the Midwest. EC will take a slight jump (one extra city hop?) and West Coasters can get some breathing room. It&#039;s probably the best sweet/shit return. Midwest will probably get like 40, East Coast like 60, and West ~60-70 with the generous locations. Texas players might have it good but who knows, could be a little far up North for them to have anything REALLY low.<br /><br />No one should ping too low and no one will ping too high from the American standpoint.[/quote]<br />* http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=515.0<br />[quote]Team Discovery Channel![/quote]<br />* http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=522.0<br />[quote]Damn. Just... wow... I mean did he have to do Fast like that...[/quote]<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=514.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=517.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=520.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=519.0<br />* http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=504.0<br />[quote]Good. We had to suffer through years of pub, Mexicans, and stacked teams of aliases. They should earn their battle scars the same way we did by the sufferings provided by pub.<br /><br />Ban them all, let DUI sort them out.[/quote]<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=510.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=511.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=494.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=490.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=489.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=460.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=472.0<br />http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=452.0<br /><br />As you can see, you don&#039;t participate that much in IDL discussions.&nbsp; And, when you do, your remarks are brief, flippant, and unhelpful.&nbsp; Entertaining, but unhelpful.<br /><br />And I have no problem with this.&nbsp; Not everybody has to be vocal about the IDL. But the fact is, you aren&#039;t.&nbsp; You are a lot of things, Chow: funny, great at doom, a latent hispanic, but verbose and participatory are not two of them.<br /><br />If I did this exercise for any of the people I listed above, my post would be deleted for spam because we have all made significant contributions to IDL discussion.<br /><br />[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5489#msg5489 date=1322651854]I do remember that time, and alot of people were totally unaware about the trade fiasco that amounted to that idea.[/quote]<br /><br />No, every relevant event was listed in those threads about trading.&nbsp; You just didn&#039;t read them because you don&#039;t participate in IDL discussions.<br /><br />[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5489#msg5489 date=1322651854]I&#039;m not trying to put it as a &quot;ME ME ME&quot; sort of thing[/quote]<br /><br />But I think you are.&nbsp; The FACT is that most players DON&#039;T like map07.&nbsp; A few of them do, but most of them don&#039;t.&nbsp; It is usually 15 minutes of 0-0 camping and grinding.&nbsp; Most players DO like map14.&nbsp; A few of them don&#039;t, but most of them do, which is why it still gets picked every priv.&nbsp; Map07 never got picked in priv, and when it did, it was often a troll pick, and priv often ended right afterward or even beforehand.&nbsp; Cha0tix, [b]I[/b] don&#039;t like map14--I think it is for victims of FAS--but I voted to keep it in the wad because, based on my many discussions with different players (ones that eagerly signed up for this season!), I have gathered that most players want it in.&nbsp; I&#039;m sorry that you didn&#039;t get your way?<br /><br />[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5489#msg5489 date=1322651854]the forum can be a more powerful tool. It is just underplayed in how great it can be...<br /><br />I think the newly emphasized focus on the forum can garner more formal discussions about IDL as opposed to the dickwaving we all love to partake in on IRC.[/quote]<br /><br />1. You don&#039;t use the forums.&nbsp; I&#039;m sure you plan to change that.&nbsp; If that happens, and you give us real suggestions, and afterwards we don&#039;t listen to you, then you will have a reason to make this sort of thread.<br /><br />2. So, when you say you&#039;re vocal about the IDL, you MUST mean that you whine a lot about the board&#039;s decisions in #idl, or worse, #dixangels.&nbsp; But the board doesn&#039;t (at least I don&#039;t) read [i]all of[/i] the &quot;dickwaving&quot; going on in #idl for player feedback for just the reasons you said.&nbsp; We read the forums.<br /><br />3. Did you just complain about shady PM&#039;s and then post logs that were PM&#039;d to you from #idlb?&nbsp; Or were you there.<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />Here is my main point of satisfaction on the map selections: In all of these whiny discussions with their obnoxious ad hominem pseudo criticisms of the board&#039;s months of hard work to select new maps, not one single person has suggested one single map to be included.&nbsp; Not Fastidious, Ralphis, you, Jenova, anybody.&nbsp; Collision told me to look at one of his CC maps (we did), and Whiteboy urged us to look at ProCTF (we did, and are probably using one of the maps).&nbsp; Neither of them complained, however.&nbsp; Out of everybody who complained, nobody just said, &quot;Hey, you should include ZDUCTF Map12.&nbsp; Yeah, it&#039;s a blast.&quot; (It is.)<br /><br />If you have any suggestions or proposals at all, we are and have always been eagerly listening.&nbsp; Do you?<br />', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(5501, 544, 17, 1322682238, 158, 5501, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '173.206.69.68', 1, 0, '', 'Just pointing out retarded flaws! No problem!<br /><br />What do you think about my proposal?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(6497, 624, 20, 1331491493, 17, 6497, 'Re: Regular Season Awards Discussion', 'MionicDonut', 'Sparx7300@yahoo.com', '76.29.49.114', 1, 0, '', 'Have you made it your personal life goal to make a drama bomb out of every single thing that happens in this league?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5521, 546, 17, 1322725951, 163, 5521, 'Map Suggestions', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;m making this thread to separate this discussion from the varying discussions taking place in the current Board Thread. The intention of this thread is to suggest maps to possibly replace some of the less-appreciated maps in the current IDL wad as well as consideration for future wads. If you have any comment not related to the suggestion of maps, please go to the other thread and voice your opinion there. The only opinion I would like here is for maps and what they have to offer. I&#039;ll start off with a few.<br /><br /><br />ZDCTFMap07:<br /><br />A good map really. Total grind fest? Yes. Well practiced and historical? Yes. Better than BP CTF? Yes. No need to discuss what it offers, it&#039;s been played enough to know. It&#039;s just a suggestion off the top of my head. In fact, I&#039;ll propose a few maps that are relatively known.<br /><br />ZDU30 - Redemption II<br />Oda2 - Something Epic II<br /><br />I wanted to categorize these two with ZDCTF07 separately before I suggested more maps. The reason for that is because these are 3 maps I feel were wrongfully removed. I would gladly replace BPCTF, Libraries, Thirty4-01 (not one mentioned often but typically avoided in priv), Thirty7-05 with these along with the possible addition of the suggested PROCTF map suggested by Whiteboy.<br /><br />Here are some less common ones. Some of these have been played in seasons past, some, to the best of my knowledge may have not been.<br /><br />ZDECTF05 - Legacy<br /><br />If memory serves me right, I believe this was played in Summer 2010, Season 8? I don&#039;t know if it had been played before that, feel free to confirm that if it has. Other than that, I recall the gameplay actually being rather stellar. The shotgun towers don&#039;t serve much purpose other than mid-filler and the colored bases are a bit of a turn off. But it had a decent flow and had some interesting games. I would be in favor of considering this.<br /><br />ZDCTF13 - Twice as Simple.<br /><br />I can&#039;t recall this being played in recent seasons but I&#039;m sure it&#039;s been played. It&#039;s a classic map. All of us long-timers remember it in pub, priv and many clan-wars in DooM&#039;s feudal times. The map is a bit runner friendly but with a loaded up defense and a timely push, this map could turn into a grind. <br /><br />TLSXCTF Map01 - Canyon Compound<br /><br />Some of us have played this. Some of us haven&#039;t. I know it would be treading foreign waters as, to the best of my knowledge, no TLSCTF map has ever been used in the past (please correct me if I&#039;m wrong). I also understand we&#039;d be pushing it to remove the railgun, but in order for it to be IDL-playable, that would definitely need to happen. Once done, whether practical or not, I think the map itself has a good layout. It&#039;s very basic and it would definitely be grindy. There are 3 different levels in mid to play around with as a runner. There is also plasma in mid, plus blue armor in base as well as something not typically seen in ctf - an invso-sphere! With all of those variables plus the removal of the railgun, I think this would actually make a decent IDL CTF map. But I&#039;d also understand why the board might want to keep away from doing that. Nonetheless, something to ponder!<br /><br />ZDUCTF Map17 Castle Perimeter<br /><br />Taking a shot in the dark here. Could be interesting. It would definitely need some play-testing. <br /><br />ZDECTF map12<br /><br />An interesting looking map for sure. The textures might turn people off but I think the map would play rather well. There&#039;s the sphere in middle worth controlling and the layout is straight-forward.&nbsp; <br /><br />ZDECTF Map13<br /><br />Looks good. I would playtest this.<br /><br />I&#039;m going to stop here because it&#039;s 3 in the morning and if I keep going, I&#039;ll have about 40 maps listed. I&#039;d like others to contribute. But I do want to say this: had I known the board was more open minded to people suggesting maps for the next IDL wad, this thread would have been created long ago. I don&#039;t fault the board or anyone in particular for this but since thread discussion seems to be the best way of discussing IDL issues in a formal setting, this is the best bet for player feedback on maps. I look forward to more suggestions. <br /><br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(7168, 697, 1, 1342552969, 75, 7168, 'Re: Who ddosing doomguy with xyltol ???', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=697.msg7167#msg7167 date=1342544047]<br />Clearly it&#039;s Mobius. Notice how he&#039;s not around. How convenient.<br />[/quote]<br />storing pedo porn is the gateway crime to ddosing.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(7243, 691, 22, 1344803641, 2, 7243, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'mikefails', 'fearedful12@yahoo.com', '24.18.104.99', 1, 0, '', 'xen=tai jr?', 'xx', 1);
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	(7503, 716, 17, 1346822680, 17, 7507, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'MionicDonut', 'Sparx7300@yahoo.com', '131.156.232.170', 1, 1346867423, 'Mionic_D', 'http://www.speedyshare.com/tGE5v/TripleJ-Donut-v1.wad<br /><br />Name of map:&nbsp; Triple Jeopardy<br />Build time: 11 hours over 3 days.<br />Music: Sabotage by Beastie Boys<br />Description:&nbsp; A concept Ive had floating in my head a few years, a smaller sized map (hurr hurr 3v3) with three major attack points on the flag, providing a difficult entry but a quick escape, can lead to some interesting showdowns in the event both flags are grabbed.<br /><br />Maps of influence:<br />Thirty4-09<br />That Lazarus SmartCTF map<br />zdctf19<br />ZDU12<br /><br />Left plenty of time for playtesting and item movement.<br /><br />For playtesting consideration:<br /><br />-Should the lift accessing the first teleport (to the flag) be accessible through the gates (You&#039;ll know when you see them)<br />-Lift Speeds.&nbsp; Are they all right,&nbsp; I tend to be awful with judging lift speeds.<br /><br />Repairs for future version.<br />Move up SSG and corresponding spawn in front of octagon lift about 8-16 units.&nbsp; It catches on the lift.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7537, 716, 17, 1347230485, 17, 7537, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'MionicDonut', 'Sparx7300@yahoo.com', '131.156.232.170', 1, 1347231412, 'Mionic_D', 'Second Map<br />http://www.speedyshare.com/9XxFh/Thing-Donut-v1.wad<br /><br />Name:&nbsp; Simpleton&#039;s Delight<br />Build Time: 9 hours over two days<br />Music:&nbsp; Breakfast Machine<br />Inspiration:&nbsp; Not really<br /><br />Notes:&nbsp; Made this map ZDoom style, because I couldn&#039;t do the side stairs right without slopes.&nbsp; Then I wound up doing textures all wrong and spending an hour fixing this.&nbsp; I&#039;m full of doodoo.<br /><br />Enjoy your particle fountains, assholes. :)<br /><br />Future Updates:<br />Center pit will do 20% damage instead of 10%&nbsp; I have no idea how this error got through.&nbsp; Herp-de-diddle-derp-dee-doo.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7765, 745, 25, 1350883816, 73, 7765, 'Re: CAPO''s team this season ', 'Quiksilver', 'joshbryantmusic@gmail.com', '50.90.39.128', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;m undecided.<br /><br />Oh and Hi everyone.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(8249, 815, 17, 1360303912, 214, 8249, 'LIMITATION??', 'RustInPeace', 'ru5tk1ng@yahoo.com', '70.241.27.121', 1, 0, '', 'I think it&#039;s obvious you don&#039;t realize that Doom is built on randomness. If you want static behavior, go play Quake.<br /><br />Also, didn&#039;t ZDaemon have the 2048 unit limitation? It was never a problem for all those years and seasons. Taking this into consideration, your &#039;not good for idl&#039; statement doesn&#039;t really hold up.<br /><br />If you want to hit people from across the map and kill them with one shot in CTF, then play capo&#039;s IDL Railgun Server.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7709, 743, 24, 1349311400, 2326, 7710, 'Re: Vengeance Sign Ups', 'Iced', 'dunned2@hotmail.com', '128.113.140.224', 1, 1349382990, 'Iced', '[b]Team Name:[/b] The Mighty (2)<br />[b]<br />Captain:[/b] Iced<br /><br />[b]Members:[/b] Dr_Noob, Ammar, Midian, Junior<br /><br />[b]Contact:[/b] #idl<br />', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7734, 741, 17, 1350092653, 8, 7734, 'Re: What''s cooking for the next season?', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ten link=topic=741.msg7732#msg7732 date=1350091916]<br />[b]FREE DR_NOOB[/b]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Nope', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(8048, 781, 18, 1356795362, 8, 8048, 'Winter 2013 Site Update', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'The main page on the site has been updated to reflect this seasons rosters and games. All you have to do is click &quot;Season&quot; on the top right hand corner of the homepage, and then find &quot;Winter 2013&quot; where it says to select a season, and click go. You can then switch between the Standings and Schedule tabs to see everything that&#039;s been updated so far. <br /><br />The draft was a lot of fun and Blair generously [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=775.msg8019#msg8019]recorded[/url] it for anyone who missed out. Week 1 of the Winter 2013 season begins January 7th.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8413, 778, 25, 1360899291, 8, 8413, 'Re: W2013 FREE AGENTS - TRADE HISTORY', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', '[b]Berserker Packers (BSK)[/b]<br />SoulSucka withdrawn (Week 6)<br />Watermelon added to team (Week 6)', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5502, 545, 17, 1322682636, 19, 5502, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 1322682756, 'Xenaero', '[quote author=Ladna link=topic=545.msg5488#msg5488 date=1322644279]<br />I seriously can&#039;t imagine why anyone would want the 6 spawns.&nbsp; That [b]COMPLETELY[/b] changes the map, just because of the 2 new spawns at the short exit. Welcome to Grind Town, capital of the Catatonic State.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;ll explain why [b]I[/b] want them because I&#039;m not afraid! Players like Ralph were very quick to disagree with me and for reasons that are totally understandable. Yes, map28 has produced great, even fantastic games. Yes, map28 is unique in the way that there&#039;s a whole new map under the map itself in how the spawns were behaving. I do not disagree that spawns change the map.<br /><br />On the flip side, I&#039;m an advocate for it because of multiple reasons. One, it is how the map was intended. I am not proposing this change as if it were a lava switch or the removal of such. This segues into my second point, which is changing things up. This change is obviously not permanent by any means. &quot;[i]But Xeee[u]eeeennnnnnnnnn[/u]nnnnn it would get played in the IDL![/i]&quot; Not necessarily. It could be completely avoided in the maplists for two seasons (including homefield picks), and if people don&#039;t prefer it then, and the board does not prefer it at that point, it could be very easily reverted to 2 spawn points forever. Don&#039;t pretend it&#039;s ruining the map. Very few of the opponents of this have stopped to think that this has the potential to make the map even better. Will it? I have no fucking clue, and neither does anyone else, nor can they until it gets played in a serious setting, and not 4v4 priv. Are infants in Africa suffering as a result of the change? Probably not. What&#039;s the big deal? Live up some changes. If you seriously didn&#039;t like giving things in this game a chance then why are you playing......In a player-run league.........For a nearly 2 decade old game.....That never had CTF to begin with.......On completely player-made and player-decided maplists...?<br /><br />Am I used to playing map28 as it is? Very yes! I guess I&#039;m a mutant for opening myself to the possibility of getting destroyed in an IDL game (In which I will play this season, mind you) because I might not adapt to the new spawns in time. I don&#039;t mind a challenge. Bring it on. UD ON TOP!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6498, 629, 20, 1331511969, 19, 6498, 'Re: Season 11 / Winter 2012 Playoffs - Quarterfinal Round - Discussion and Results', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.230.203', 1, 1331512498, 'Xenaero', 'This shit was flat out uncool. Bad sport post incoming.<br /><br />[21:29:32] &lt;@Xenaero&gt; also it&#039;s cool that both rrs and mad caps are here<br />[21:30:04] &lt;@Xenaero&gt; i think it is in my best interest to note that i do not wish to play on tt ever again if can be avoided<br />[21:30:11] &lt;@Xenaero&gt; ph has been set up for the playoffs !!!1111<br />[21:31:55] &lt;@Ru5tK1ng&gt; I&#039;ll let MAD choose the server either cc or montreal, as long as we get to play our hf :)<br />[21:32:17] &lt;@Xenaero&gt; I dont even think it&#039;s possible to do that is it<br />[21:33:02] &lt;@Ru5tK1ng&gt; hmm who knows<br />[21:33:13] &lt;@Ru5tK1ng&gt; lets just pretend I&#039;m nostar or hatedaddy<br />[21:33:15] &lt;@Ru5tK1ng&gt; and break the rules<br />[21:33:22] &lt;@Ru5tK1ng&gt; or twist them<br /><br />[img]http://i.imgur.com/l7t5F.png[/img]<br /><br />I guess I held up hope anyway for the sake of a match of both teams having a game where their preferred lineups could play competently. But nah, come gametime, locked to TT. Then again, what integrity did I expect from someone who says something like that? Really surprises me nonetheless that people will screw over a team so blatantly in the playoffs. Definitely not a gg, personally hope RR gets demolished in the next round. Sorry I couldn&#039;t do anything in that game, Doomguy.<br /><br />I&#039;ve had my fill of a league and community who will actually willingly do this, let alone a clanmate. Adios.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5503, 544, 17, 1322682984, 19, 5503, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 1322683223, 'Xenaero', '[quote author=Jenova link=topic=544.msg5498#msg5498 date=1322681997]<br />the board literally decides everything and player opinions are void.[/quote]<br /><br />That&#039;s far from the truth.<br /><br />I&#039;d listen to people who would want my board spot, though. I&#039;m here to help, not to power whore. It&#039;s not really a very fun spot, but I like the thought of helping IDL in a positive manner. If you or anyone else thinks you&#039;re better, then talk to HumanBones. I don&#039;t think any Commissioner would baselessly turn down people interested in helping, even if they aren&#039;t officially part of the board. Why should that stop you?<br /><br />EDIT: I did mention help. If you think the maps are terrible choices (to which I&#039;d also ask how you could possibly know this), I&#039;d ask you to name replacements that are in your opinion suitable. Let&#039;s get constructive.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5504, 544, 17, 1322685343, 158, 5504, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '173.206.69.68', 1, 0, '', 'Sure you can listen to players. However, players still have 0 power when deciding a lot of things. The board&#039;s rule seems absolute, and while they can listen to the opinions of players, they are not forced to.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7169, 697, 1, 1342553646, 11, 7169, 'Re: Who ddosing doomguy with xyltol ???', 'Doomguy666', 'xdoomguy666x@hotmail.com', '76.198.254.121', 1, 0, '', 'We did it for The Rock.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7244, 691, 22, 1344811753, 19, 7244, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', 'i dont know what that means', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7538, 716, 17, 1347236989, 214, 7538, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '65.71.124.169', 1, 0, '', 'I have to commend you on this one Mionic. This is probably the most practical, idl-ish map you&#039;ve made in either contest.&nbsp; :)', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7540, 716, 17, 1347310887, 2313, 7540, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'nub_hat', 'mikaelhhome@yahoo.dk', '80.164.151.134', 1, 1347312353, 'nub_hat', 'any testing sessions happen?<br />I changed a blue spawn in the red base to red spawn and added another map on map02<br />http://www.mediafire.com/?iz1sz9499wi9048<br />The new map is really simple, I could add some different routes around the place but I wasnt sure where.<br />It is pretty straightforward with 2 hallways+1 room in the base and a choke point in the middle<br />I put some health kits on top of the metal pillars/whatever you want to call them which you can rocket jump onto/over(probably a bit weird, I dunno if it is helpful), the frozen lake in the middle is off limits though<br /><br />@Mionic_D If there is no way out of the pit around the blue armor you should consider making it 20% damage, currently a missed jump could get people stuck down there for over 17 seconds with full health and armor (edit: you mentioned this in your post I missed it)', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7726, 741, 17, 1349987269, 145, 7726, 'Re: What''s cooking for the next season?', 'Fluffles', 'petefredericknewton@hotmail.co.uk', '86.148.111.36', 1, 0, '', 'I think there should be more time for thinking in intermissions, it might sound drastic but possibly a minute intermission, I kept finding that I was being rushed into next match before new tactics for the next round', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7724, 741, 17, 1349986345, 8, 7724, 'Re: What''s cooking for the next season?', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;m surprised nobody has said anything, so I will start us off. It is my intention to push for the removal of conferences as well as divisions. With 8 teams there just really isn&#039;t a point to either of them, except that maybe it makes things look a bit more organized. This will lead us to a 7 week season instead of an 8 week season, as each team will play all the others once. Additionally I have come to like the idea mentioned in the other divisions thread regarding the playoffs. Instead of 80% of the league making the playoffs (6 teams), why not 5? Basically the Wildcard Round will only consist of the 4th and 5th seed playing each other, while the other teams lay waiting for the next round. The winner of the Wildcard Round moves on to play the first seed, and #2 vs #3 will also occur. My reasoning for 5 instead of 4: I think there needs to be some sort of incentive for teams that are struggling to keep playing, and knowing there is still that 5th seed to snatch will keep them fighting. It&#039;ll probably even produce some pretty exciting games. Rust made a great image in case my rambling was confusing: http://rust.unidoom.org/5playoff.png<br /><br />Intermission time I&#039;d like to see extended to at least 30. Now that we have the option to extend it, why not give teams a bit more of a chance to fix what they did wrong the previous round? It&#039;s not a whole lot of time, but I think it could be helpful for a team if something really didn&#039;t end up going the way they planned and they need to figure it out.<br /><br />Rocket splash: Full power please! Sometimes I do intend to kill myself and it just doesn&#039;t work!! <br /><br />Invites are probably gone, but I&#039;ll explain a bit more on that subject when the time comes. The main reason behind this move is that it is redundant to have sign-ups and then have invites sent out. This [b]does not[/b] mean if you sign up you are guaranteed a spot on the Free Agency list and are eligible for the draft. All we are doing is removing an unneeded extra step, and like I said I will explain a bit more as the time for signing up comes closer. <br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7504, 727, 17, 1346823816, 4, 7507, 'Re: The 200 Round Club', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '99.32.168.118', 1, 1346877466, 'LordBritish', '[quote author=capodecima link=topic=727.msg7499#msg7499 date=1346790706]<br />HB and Tai more like 20000 rounds without no MB winner yet&nbsp; :P[/quote]<br /><br />Tai&#039;s DCL won the MB in S2007.<br /><br />Edit: AGGGHHH', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6499, 629, 20, 1331512599, 16, 6499, 'Re: Season 11 / Winter 2012 Playoffs - Quarterfinal Round - Discussion and Results', 'Tai', 'Tai223236@yahoo.com', '98.216.91.67', 1, 0, '', 'How long have I been saying that TT sucks?&nbsp; Forever?&nbsp; ;D', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5506, 544, 17, 1322686450, 10, 5506, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '64.141.192.13', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=MassVC link=topic=544.msg5499#msg5499 date=1322682155]not one single person has suggested one single map to be included.&nbsp; Not...Ralphis[/quote]<br /><br />Why would I have? It is the board and commissioner&#039;s traditional duties to go through the wads and find maps that are good for the IDL. What I [b]DID DO[/b] was suggest maps that should not have been cut. In particular, oda02, zdctf07, and zdu30. The fact that these three classic, [i]great IDL maps[/i] were cut in favor of maps that were not only not even played in playtesting sessions, but are now being considered for replacement in the wad is an absolute farce.<br /><br />Earlier in this thread you mention that ZDCTF07 killed privs. So what? Nobody even picks maps like 09 or 12, yet those remained over maps that DID get picked like ZDU30. You took maps that have produced historically great games on a decent basis and replaced them with shit maps that nobody is even going to want to play. The cherry on top in regards to this is the board trying to put zdu34 back in with the blinding textures. Nobody except maybe Star and Mass cared for the map in this format judging from the responses I received when showing it in private ctf. <br /><br />The IDL board is supposed to be representing the players to the best of their ability and, more importantly, protecting both the integrity and competitiveness of the league. I&#039;m not for a direct democracy in the IDL by any means but I am in favor of a competent board that makes sound, rational decisions based on where the league has been, is, and will be in the future. I have seen little of this from the current board, but I have seen and heard of a ton of regressive, contentious bickering and reactionary policy. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5507, 545, 17, 1322688127, 10, 5507, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '64.141.192.13', 1, 0, '', 'The reason to not change map28 is simple. It is now a historical IDL map that has been played and practiced on over the past year. The two spawns ARE the map. There is little reason to change a map that had multiple playoff games played on it as well as a number of regular season games.<br /><br />Map32, ZDU34, is a different case. First off, the map has never been played in any IDL contests. Second, Doom&#039;s renderer wasn&#039;t built for ugly single color textures. Doom is not a modern game with a modern renderer, it is an ugly software rendered beast with a limited range of colors. In addition to this, aside from the textures, there is zero structural or physical change to map32. This makes it a different case when compared to something like the map28 &quot;fix&quot; in my opinion.<br /><br />2-spawn 28 and retextured 32 is the right option. I hope that others will agree with me.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7245, 708, 22, 1344829320, 64, 7245, 'Re: WEEK 6 - MAP27 BPCTF26 (AUG 6 - AUG 12) - Discussion and Results', 'BloodStrike', 'casianoortega@live.com', '107.2.106.65', 1, 0, '', 'whoops.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7539, 716, 17, 1347296940, 17, 7539, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'MionicDonut', 'Sparx7300@yahoo.com', '131.156.232.170', 1, 0, '', 'Im not sure if that warrants a commendation so much as it warrants not getting the shit kicked out of me.&nbsp; I&#039;ll take what I can get though.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7505, 726, 22, 1346854881, 4, 7505, 'Re: Season 12 / Summer 2012 Playoffs - Conference Finals - Discussion and Results', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '99.32.168.118', 1, 1346855031, 'Ten', '[10:01:38] [capodecima] make some boring prediction before you go to bet ten<br />[10:01:47] [capodecima] bed *<br /><br />Cab doesn&#039;t show again, leaving KGB with no offense to get around Stall<br /><br />WAD 2-0<br /><br />Hex and Water get shut down by Bones and Rust meanwhile Legion eventually gets a cap or two past Soul<br /><br />SXP 2-0-2', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7725, 741, 17, 1349986937, 19, 7725, 'Re: What''s cooking for the next season?', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', '[quote]&lt;HumanBones&gt; more people should respond to this thread http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=741.0<br />&lt;Nautilus_&gt; why.<br />&lt;Nautilus_&gt; heh.<br />&lt;HumanBones&gt; because I said so<br />&lt;Xenaero&gt; ok<br />&lt;Xenaero&gt; my forthcoming post will get them to reply[/quote]<br /><br />[img]http://i.imgur.com/bE5BG.gif[/img]', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7766, 745, 25, 1350885971, 214, 7766, 'Re: CAPO''s team this season ', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.16.191', 1, 0, '', 'Now I&#039;m curious as to what capo voted for ahah', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8714, 858, 29, 1363289729, 2303, 8714, 'Re: New Event', 'Watermelon', 'watermelonst@hotmail.com', '99.239.182.148', 1, 0, '', 'I will play', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7767, 748, 24, 1350968402, 7, 7767, 'Re: Results and Demos', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '199.180.105.70', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;ll get the spoiler tag after achievements.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5574, 547, 17, 1322969999, 0, 5574, 'Re: Railguns in CTF', 'Fastidious', '', '75.4.132.164', 1, 0, '', 'I don&#039;t know.&nbsp; I enjoyed TLSXCTF a lot in pub back in the day but I never really played it seriously.&nbsp; I say probably best not to play those maps without serious play testing first off and probably removing rails.&nbsp; I feel like any major changes to gameplay shouldn&#039;t occur, especially just one a few or one map.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(1995, 231, 1, 1278011795, 3, 1995, 'TierDM - Now up on Total Trash', 'Joshsmith', 'tonihawker666@yahoo.com', '99.9.212.71', 1, 1278012182, 'Joshsmith', '[size=6]TierDM - By Joshsmith, detailed by RottKing[/size]<br /><br />I&#039;ve been spamming up #IDL this past week trying to hype up my first(technically second, but 2005 doesn&#039;t count) map. The map was completed yesterday, with several changes done to the already assumed &#039;final&#039; version, which got it up to a &#039;final final final&#039; version, haha. It&#039;s an FFA map(1vs1 compatible), and doesn&#039;t use mlook/jumping and all that jazz, just strict oldschool navigation(aside from the double wallrun and weapon switch). Also, major thanks goes out to RottKing, for his awesome detail job, and I also have to thank those who helped me test it and provided feedback: Sabertooth, Whiteboy567, Souler, Caution, RottKing, LordBritish, Strangle. One more thank you to Nostar, for his initial hosting of test version number 4. Sorry if I forgot anyone, these guys stick out the most.<br /><br />Anyway, Nostar put up the final version on Total Trash today, so feel free to check it out!<br /><br />[URL=http://img820.imageshack.us/i/dm20100630230211.png/][IMG]http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5504/dm20100630230211.png[/img][/URL]<br /><br />[URL=http://img189.imageshack.us/i/dm20100630230004.png/][IMG]http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1905/dm20100630230004.png[/img][/URL]<br /><br />[URL=http://img251.imageshack.us/i/dm20100630225946.png/][IMG]http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/710/dm20100630225946.png[/img][/URL]<br /><br />Edit: Ok, they were so big it broke the boards in a way, hopefully these are thumbnailed now.<br /><br />Edit 2: Nope, ah well.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(8764, 827, 17, 1364092227, 2303, 8764, 'Re: Someone else quits', 'Watermelon', 'watermelonst@hotmail.com', '99.239.182.148', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Watermelon link=topic=827.msg8406#msg8406 date=1360890320]<br />Don&#039;t worry, I will save BSK and come back just in time to lose in the masterbowl to Bones.<br /><br />I am the ace in the hole.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />This will possibly be prophetic tomorrow.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5509, 544, 17, 1322689852, 213, 5509, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', 'In fact, Ralphis, the current administration puts in more time, works harder, and with more thoughtful deliberation than any administration in the past.&nbsp; That much is clear to everyone in the administration and anyone else who has been paying attention, no matter how upsetting the many changes may be.&nbsp; There has straightforwardly been more community discussion over various topics in the past six months than at any point in the past.&nbsp; If you can&#039;t see that, then you are kidding yourself.&nbsp; If you are confused about exactly why I pushed for any of the changes that I did, I will gladly link you to the appropriate thread where I already explained my reasoning.&nbsp; I might be a contentious dick, but two things I cannot be challenged on in this community are geometry and sound rationality.<br /><br />I can see how this fact would make you act defensively, as if it suggests that your or Ladna&#039;s administration was somehow lethargic, uninvolved, whimsical, or overly conservative.&nbsp; This isn&#039;t my opinion, but I can see that there is a difference in style.&nbsp; You tend to operate under the assumption that what has been done is what must be done; I am victim to no such illusion.&nbsp; You ran the league autocratically and with a clear vision of where it was headed.&nbsp; I know that you think you constructed a perfect league that could not possibly be improved upon by anyone else, but you didn&#039;t.&nbsp; And if you wanted to maintain a position of legislative power, you shouldn&#039;t have stepped down as commissioner.<br /><br />I will explain one more time that there is a difference between a [u]positive[/u] suggestion (which sounds like, &quot;you should do this&quot;) and a [u]negative[/u] suggestion (which sounds like, &quot;you shouldn&#039;t do this&quot;).&nbsp; I correctly pointed out that you offered no positive suggestions.&nbsp; Why would you have?&nbsp; The board and the league as a whole wanted to replace unpopular maps with new maps.&nbsp; We picked out the worst of the unpopular maps and replaced them with the best of the new maps.&nbsp; If you are upset about which maps were replaced, then take comfort in the fact that, when you told us what not to pick, we listened to you.&nbsp; We took your opinion into consideration along with all the other players&#039; who voiced theirs, and we did what we thought was best.&nbsp; Sorry it didn&#039;t work out for you!&nbsp; Not every player can have his own way to the tee.&nbsp;  If, on the other hand, you are upset in any way with the new maps we introduced, [i][b]you have nothing to say[/b][/i] because you offered nothing in the way of a positive suggestion as to which new maps to introduce.&nbsp; If, thirdly, you think the player base as a whole wanted idl2012.wad to be exactly the same as idl2011.wad but with gayer music, then I&#039;m afraid you are just wrong.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5508, 545, 17, 1322689645, 60, 5509, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Jkist3', 'jefferson.kist@duke.edu', '99.140.206.57', 1, 1322689938, 'JKist3', 'Map28 seems like a decent map so dont fuck with it.&nbsp; Scrap map32 all together.&nbsp; Replace it with one of the following: the old 07, 19, 25, 27.&nbsp; Those were good maps that never shoulda been removed.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5510, 545, 17, 1322689972, 213, 5510, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=ThatsJustPrime link=topic=545.msg5491#msg5491 date=1322660821]<br />It&#039;s funny because when there was only two spawns everybody complained too.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Yes.&nbsp; It&#039;s almost as if everybody complains all the time just to complain.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5511, 545, 17, 1322691207, 19, 5511, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=545.msg5507#msg5507 date=1322688127]<br />2-spawn 28 and retextured 32 is the right option. I hope that others will agree with me.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Overall, they are. :)', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5523, 545, 17, 1322728116, 163, 5523, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 0, '', 'Keep in mind, too, Rust that the additional pistol spawns with no close weapon do more than just not help. In fact, they actually [b]hurt[/b] your chances more since you could potentially spawn there under those circumstances. In the two-spawn version, you know one way or another, you&#039;ll be in position to get a ssg. The map is hard enough to defend as it is, useless spawn points that could hurt a defender even more would only make the map worse.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6029, 591, 20, 1327344644, 130, 6029, 'Re: since we''re frivolously making new topics', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', 'You guys are fucking ruthless. From what I gather (and I&#039;m late to the party here) this was all a misunderstanding. The site wasn&#039;t updated on time and Mass didn&#039;t have a demo. He was under the impression that all demo penalties from weeks 1/2 would be served in Week 4 because the infractions had been pushed [u]for every player[/u] as a result of the site being down. Regardless of having a demo or not, the penalty for not uploading a demo by the deadline is the same. If those penalties were to be served in Week 4 then Mass did the right thing. If they were to be served in Week 3 then it was a misunderstanding. If it were up to me (and it is not) I would waive the late demo infractions and just enforce the no-demo infractions to week 4 as we are in the midst of changing the upload deadline right now.<br /><br />Another point of relevance is that if Mass lost his week 3 match. In hindsight I&#039;m sure Mass wishes he had served his demo penalty last week. However, he is going to serve it in week 4 and you can all put your pitch forks away.<br /><br />One thing I find troubling is that you&#039;re all demanding that Mass apologize to you for some grand indiscretion. Seriously what do you think he owes you? I have been noticing this a lot with these threads. Mass is doing the only thing he can do to resolve this misunderstanding. All of you need to chill out and stop believing that you&#039;re entitled to public displays of contrition. We try to make the best and most fun league we know how. We put in extra time and energy to make sure stats are up, games get played on time and players follow the rules. Sometimes we don&#039;t do everything perfectly. Believe me, you don&#039;t either. If you see something that seems kooky then tell us, we&#039;ll try to fix it. The continued nonsense on how the board is unfairly duping the league are getting old.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6500, 630, 20, 1331512755, 16, 6500, 'Re: IDL WINTER 2012 ALLSTAR SELECTION', 'Tai', 'Tai223236@yahoo.com', '98.216.91.67', 1, 0, '', 'Oh...derp.<br /><br />Although I didn&#039;t know players could vote themselves.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7171, 699, 22, 1342605317, 4, 7171, 'Re: WEEK 3 - MAP15 ZDCTF15 (JUL 16 - JUL 22) - Discussion and Results', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '99.32.168.118', 1, 1342605496, 'Ten', 'Time for another round of 6AM predictions because I have nothing better to do!<br /><br />[b]Super Chargers (2-0-0)[/b] vs [b]We&#039;re All Doomed (2-0-0)[/b]<br />[i]Ralphis, LordBritish, Dewww[/i] vs [i]Stallion, Sabertooth, Nosturi[/i]<br /><br />This should be a good show, the only two remaining perfect teams going at head-to-head in a fight to keep their perfect title. It&#039;s clear that SUC is probably going to bump Dewww up to their standard third and make Reck the backup, and I see Dew excelling in the sewers. Also this is a map where there is no real solid D ground so I think Ralph and LB are going to put their versatility to very good use here in clearing the way for Dew to pocket some flags. I kind of get the feeling that Stall is going to have an unusually difficult time on D here against SUC, and I think ultimately SUC is going to come out on top here and emerge as the sole remaining perfect team.<br /><br />SUC 2-0<br /><br />[b]Brokeback Cowboys (1-1-0)[/b] vs [b]Sexual Panthers (1-1-0)[/b]<br />[i]ThatsJustPrime, X-Ray, Fluffles[/i] vs [i]HumanBones, RustInPeace, Legion[/i]<br /><br />Meanwhile in the silver league, I see this matchup being fairly even on this map. The X factor here will be how well Legion can slip by Prime with dem delicious flags. I don&#039;t see BBC being overly coordinated on this map, and I think SXP is going to take advantage of that and nab the win here.<br /><br />SXP 2-1<br /><br />[b]Mass Destruction (0-2-0)[/b] vs [b]Super Shotgun Spurs (0-1-1)[/b]<br />[i]Doomguy666, Climhazzard, Xyltol[/i] vs [i]Hatred, Shakal, Collision[/i]<br /><br />Both of these teams have had a rough start into the season, MAD with the extreme lagging, and SGS with whole no practice or coordination. If Doomguy and Xyltol are able to play this game without a storm of lag issues, I think they have a solid chance of winning this week. I&#039;m starting to doubt SGS&#039; status as a superpower team this season, I don&#039;t see a whole lot of conviction from them. If MAD can play very fluidly with each other and are communicating over TS/Vent, a win is definitely in their reach. However even with the lack of practice, Hatred and Shakal are still very mean players and are not to be underestimated. I&#039;m gonna bank that MAD finally gets a lag-less game in this week, and SGS remains un-practiced, and because of these circumstances, it&#039;ll be close. I&#039;m really hoping MAD&#039;s desire to shake off the winless title will give them that extra boost they need to take the win home here.<br /><br />MAD 2-1<br /><br />[b]Berserker Packers (0-2-0)[/b] vs [b]Killing Browns (1-0-1)[/b]<br />[i]SoulSucka, BloodStrike, HeX_Vulture[/i] vs [i]Tai, Caboose, DemonSphere[/i]<br /><br />While Soul has proven to be a capable fragger so far, that particular skill isn&#039;t going to be much help this week. And going up against one of the best runners in the league isn&#039;t helping anything either. KGB seems to be one of the tightest teams right now, getting a lot of practice in and playing very well together. BSK is going to have an extremely hard time here, this is not a good map to be playing KGB on. Tai, Cab and DS are all well-seasoned vets on this map, whereas Soul and Hex are not so much. This is one of the weeks where Tai should let Capo get some playtime in, because they don&#039;t come much easier than this.<br /><br />KGB 2-0', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7751, 749, 18, 1350282858, 19, 7751, 'Re: Vengeance CTF Begins Today!', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', 'take a spoon and press it against the inside of your cheek so you can moan like a ghost<br /><br />haha shit, that was funny', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5512, 545, 17, 1322692950, 14, 5512, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Gilgamesh', 'udgilgamesh@gmail.com', '71.61.186.68', 1, 0, '', 'When 28 was originally put into the wad, I think we all started shitting on it about only 2 spawns.&nbsp; But over time, that&#039;s how players adjusted to the map and there have been several great games (season 9 -SUC vs EBL in the playoffs is a GREAT example).&nbsp; Just keep it at 2.&nbsp;  Changing it to 6 includes a couple of crappy pistol spawns where you have to run back into the base to grab SSG, then back out.&nbsp; It&#039;s fine to get those spawns at the beginning of a round, but when you get those pistol spawns over and over it becomes such a chore to get a decent weapon and will probably cost the defense several flags.<br /><br />Ralph&#039;s textures on 32 make it much easier on the eyes.&nbsp; If you want to change it back to that shiny white/grey texture crap, just stare into the sun for a while and let the rest of us play with the natural toned textures.&nbsp; I can&#039;t believe anyone would actually want to revert back to the original textures...', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5513, 544, 17, 1322695101, 10, 5513, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 1322695401, 'Ralphis', 'I was going to sit down and draft an entire essay response to your ridiculously passive-aggressive trash, but I&#039;m going to just bullet point instead:<br /><br />[b]1)[/b] Don&#039;t act like you care about the players more than Ladna or I ever did. Yes, the IDL isn&#039;t perfect but as far as I can see, you are taking a direction that is far worse than anything that we ever did by attempting to both devalue draft priorities and, what I think is an even worse offense, devalue actual roster spots. We made decisions that we thought were best for the league, and I did it many seasons before Ladna even showed up. Turns out that those decisions were likely close to correct as we continued for ten seasons. Five years. <br /><br />In the mean time, everyone else&#039;s attempts to run anything even remotely similar were total, utter failures. I made the decisions that I did because I thought they were the best for the IDL. There was often little dissension amongst the players and myself, barring maybe Chaindude and Fastidious. Additionally, myself and Ladna often absorbed the burden of our decisions solely and directly. I question if we will see this from an administration of five people that can&#039;t even agree on who said what.<br /><br />[b]2)[/b] You preach about transparency but, aside from posting some rules, you guys are no different from what we were EXCEPT for the fact that we would straight up tell people that we were making the decisions and that&#039;s the way it was. You are offering a false &quot;participatory&quot; community. You are running your mouth about how nobody provided suggestions of what maps to add hot on the heels of preaching to others about how all of your discussion goes through the forums.<br /><br />Where is your thread about map suggestions? There isn&#039;t one. You know what there is? [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=494.0]A thread about booting out unwanted maps by RustKing[/url]. Do you know where you posted in the thread? [b]NO WHERE[/b]. What you have done in this thread though is make claims that you listen to players through the forums.<br /><br />I&#039;d like to see some type of evidence that you actually listened to the players in that thread at all! I have no hard evidence of this (because it is impossible to produce), but my guess is that you picked maps out of your own personal preferences. That is pretty obvious considering what stayed and what was cut. Historical, well played IDL maps get cut but maps like ZDCTF09, ZDCTF11, and Map12 stay? Are you serious? Am I being [i]too ultra conservative[/i]?<br /><br />[b]3)[/b] [i]Who are you to represent the players anyway[/i]? I think you are a horrible choice to be any type of leader for the IDL at this point in time due to having both a short and sketchy history. Let&#039;s look at your track record over the course of the league&#039;s history:<br /><br />-You play a few partial seasons as Albatross and basically flake out every single one of those seasons (as well as being ridiculously close with alleged cheater Kubrick at this time).<br /><br />-You reappear as &quot;MassVC&quot; and basically try to act like you are some new rookie until you accidentally sign a comic with your name and you get outed. Nostar and Ladna obviously know who you are the entire time and nobody else knows. Nobody is still sure who is or isn&#039;t a person when it comes to Kubrick/Albatross/Ladna/Nostar/MassVC. Remember, you&#039;re the guy accusing my leadership of not being transparent.<br /><br />-You play two seasons back as &quot;MassVC&quot; and become the board leader and start trying to push radical changes on a league and system that has, for the most part, worked just fine for half a decade.<br /><br />-You clearly have little respect for the history and traditions of the league.<br /><br />Believe what you want at the end of the day. You can believe that what we did for five years was &quot;lethargic, uninvolved, whimsical, or overly conservative&quot;, but then remember that the only reason you have a league to administrate is because not only did we do everything, we did it great. There was nothing whimsical or lethargic about over a hundred players playing in the IDL at one time or another. We&#039;ll see just how much harder you actually do work. Let&#039;s reevaluate in 2016.<br /><br />The players are keen to things that have been happening and I believe most of them see right through this administration&#039;s (read: your) so-called transparency. Was there ever as much unrest prior to this great, newfound era of IDL &quot;transparency&quot;? You tell me.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6501, 629, 20, 1331514105, 214, 6501, 'Re: Season 11 / Winter 2012 Playoffs - Quarterfinal Round - Discussion and Results', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '69.154.183.55', 1, 0, '', '[quote]Xen&#039;s farewell post[/quote]<br />First off, you guys didn&#039;t even deserve to be in the playoffs due to circumstances that I will not elaborate on. Everyone knows what it is, and I&#039;m fairly certain you do too.<br /><br />Secondly, my team had already been practicing on TT. I&#039;m not going to switch over to some shitty ass Canadian server when you notify me one day before the game. I don&#039;t know what you ping to Total Trash. I don&#039;t know what lag you have and frankly I don&#039;t care. You know your own connection and if it was such a big issue, you would have approached me days (Monday? Tuesday?) in advanced regarding a server swap. If you had bothered to show me the severity of your connection issue, I would have considered it. You never took me into a server, you didn&#039;t give me a screenshot or a demo. I don&#039;t keep up with anyone&#039;s connection because I have my own to worry about.<br /><br /><br />In conclusion,<br /><br />You having a shitty internet.....sounds like a personal problem.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5514, 544, 17, 1322695919, 130, 5514, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 1322696101, 'nostar', '[quote author=nostar link=topic=544.msg5484#msg5484 date=1322631862]<br />I&#039;d like some evidence for the shady PM deals over votes and rules.[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5489#msg5489 date=1322651854]<br />I really don&#039;t have any<br />[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5489#msg5489 date=1322651854]<br />[b]EDIT: Actually found some logs on my iPod.[/b] And look what we have here, involving you no less. (starred named for privacy concerns&nbsp; ;))[/quote]<br /><br />[quote]Oct 18 20:58:55 &lt;***&gt;	I dont think they will let me play<br />Oct 18 20:59:05 &lt;cha0tix&gt;	why not<br />Oct 18 20:59:07 &lt;***&gt;	so far I am told the board is not in favor<br />Oct 18 20:59:11 &lt;***&gt;	2-1 against me so far<br />Oct 18 20:59:18 &lt;***&gt;	3/5 rules<br />Oct 18 20:59:45 &lt;***&gt;	and I hear ralph can veto<br />Oct 18 20:59:54 &lt;***&gt;	and I hear he will veto me if I get 3<br />Oct 18 21:00:14 &lt;cha0tix&gt;	haha do you have to punk bill apter to get seen in a good light? this doesn&#039;t look good for you<br />Oct 18 21:00:31 &lt;***&gt;	well nostar got mike<br />Oct 18 21:00:34 &lt;***&gt;	he is trying to bribe Denny<br />Oct 18 21:00:44 &lt;***&gt;	and he can pull Ladna&#039;s tail<br />Oct 18 21:00:46 &lt;***&gt;	so I might get 3<br />Oct 18 21:00:57 &lt;***&gt;	but bones and mantis are deadset against me from what I hear<br />Oct 18 21:01:10 &lt;***&gt;	cause they want reliable people I suppose<br />[/quote]<br /><br />The starred out name is Shakal. And this wasn&#039;t a backroom deal. I openly and notoriously lobbied for Shakal to be a captain and further I lobbied for you to be admitted into the player base as a franchise player. I was not a member of the board and I spoke to every board member and the Commisisoner. I was just a player arguing for something that I felt was positive for the league, something I commend you for doing now. I wish, however, that you had something of substance to offer instead of this. The only logs you have are of Shakal telling you what I was doing. I actually made forum posts outlining my position on this. One chow myth debunked, one to go!<br /><br />[quote]Dec 11 20:02:04 &lt;***&gt;	Nostar is blackmailing him<br />Dec 11 20:02:14 *	cha0tix leans in.<br />Dec 11 20:02:15 &lt;***&gt;	He is threatening to quit<br />Dec 11 20:02:24 &lt;***&gt;	cause he hates the board members and new rules[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m not sure who the name in this one is but I can reference the situation. There was a season where I was deciding whether or not to play because I didn&#039;t think we had the captains or player base for 12 teams. I didn&#039;t want to play in a watered down league for the sole purpose of expansion. I also don&#039;t think the Toronto Raptors will ever be good. It was hardly blackmail. In a blackmail situation you have to have something I want...I was just thinking about not playing in IDL and not contributing anymore. Another faux backroom deal debunked!<br /><br />There probably have been &quot;shady deals&quot;. I probably have been a part of some. But then again I have only been on the board for 3 months. Before that I was just a player/captain trying to make the league better. And I did. I&#039;m glad you&#039;ve taken up the cause.<br /><br />[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5489#msg5489 date=1322651854]<br />We&#039;d still need a Fuhrer to kind of steer us in a direction as most leagues do.[/quote]<br /><br />I think we just agreed on something..?<br /><br />[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5489#msg5489 date=1322651854]<br />So the people who don&#039;t play shouldn&#039;t have as strong opinions as those that do? Someone said it best with &quot;instead of asking what is it going to take to get people who play to sign up, let&#039;s ask those that don&#039;t play what&#039;s it going to take for them to sign up&quot;.[/quote]<br /><br />You missed my point. I&#039;m saying that all opinion are not equal. In a pure democracy they are. I don&#039;t believe that is for the best in this case, or in most cases. I think if we functioned on this paradigm not only would we be stuck in a loop playing map 1/4/8 we would also be subject to the whims of anyone who can rally a strong opposition (Nostar for instance). I wouldn&#039;t put it past that nostar guy, he is a shady dealing motherfucker.<br /><br />[quote author=chow link=topic=544.msg5489#msg5489 date=1322651854]I see the vocal majority/minority as a great starting point for decision making.[/quote]<br />And as I&#039;ve mentioned, the majority is unorganized, easy to manipulate and overall lazy as a mike.<br /><br />As for the vocal majority, I hope more people post their opinions on here. So far chow&#039;s posts have been crude yet effective. So far the posts have been board members, former board members, the commissioner, former commissioner, Jenova (trolling), Legion, and chow. The vocal majority is a part the current or a past IDL administration right now chow. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(5515, 544, 17, 1322697204, 14, 5515, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Gilgamesh', 'udgilgamesh@gmail.com', '71.61.186.68', 1, 0, '', 'It&#039;s novel time.<br /><br />I would like to start off by saying I agree that this season&#039;s admins have put in the most effort into reaching decisions.&nbsp; I don&#039;t think anyone doubts that.&nbsp; The issue is when the board is making decisions that the majority of the community is REALLY not happy with, and the board just blows off those opinions because of stubbornness or whatever the reason may be.<br /><br />Well, I&#039;m glad to see the board replacing some of the crappy maps in the wad.&nbsp; The main reason I left the board several seasons ago was because everyone was so damn [b]stubborn[/b] and wouldn&#039;t take the players&#039; opinions into account.&nbsp; If NOBODY wants to play certain maps, just throw them out before you make a wad that is going to last 1-2 seasons.&nbsp; The board should be reflecting on the opinions/wants of the player base instead of pushing only their own views.<br /><br />How do we do this? Polls.<br />[list]<br />[li]Xen just started a poll about map28 and map32.&nbsp; Thanks for letting the players voice their opinions, this is what needs to happen more often.[/li]<br />[li]The contest map poll was also great. Letting the players vote on what maps they like the most and include them.[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />Maybe a new poll is needed to determine what to do with all the controversial maps that the board still wants to keep in.&nbsp; Maps 25 and 27 come to mind right away.&nbsp; Sure it could take some time to get the opinions of each map from each player, but I think it would produce a better wad with more maps that people want to play.&nbsp; Remember last seasons wad?&nbsp; Ghoul&#039;s hallway map?&nbsp; Yeah, NOBODY wanted to play that.&nbsp; That is the perfect example of when players&#039; opinions are needed the most.<br /><br />Why not fill a server with 16 people and get a yes/maybe/no answer for each of the 32 maps?&nbsp; That way the board can get a better idea of which maps are liked or hated.&nbsp; The more people who voice their opinion, the better the final wad will most likely be.&nbsp; Or pester people on irc to go through the wad and make a list of their yes/maybe/no answers and someone tally up the responses.&nbsp; Who wants to do that? Probably not many people, but I&#039;d do it.&nbsp; I can start pestering people tonight if you want.<br /><br />I would urge current board members to select the controversial maps when you are a captain in priv.&nbsp; You should really use that time to take in players&#039; opinions and such.&nbsp; Instead of board members thinking &quot;Do I like this map? I think I do and it should be included so that&#039;s it. I&#039;m not going to change my mind at all.&quot;&nbsp; board members should more likely be thinking &quot;Do most players like this map? Is it in the best interest of the IDL community to place this map into a wad that will last 1-2 seasons?&quot;&nbsp; <br /><br />This is what typically happens when you pick the &quot;bad&quot; maps:<br />Captain 1: &quot;map 27&quot;<br />Everyone else in the server: &quot;wtf&quot; &quot;why?&quot; &quot;that map fucking sucks&quot; &quot;*Player has disconnected*&quot;<br />Are the players the only ones who see a problem with this?<br /><br />I think the board has been productive in this off-season, but the main problem that several people are speaking of is the shitty map selection for the wad.&nbsp; Take the opinions of the players and use that to construct a better wad.&nbsp; Having 32 maps that everyone wants to play is better than having about 16-20 maps that get played and the rest are never touched.&nbsp; Don&#039;t waste wad space with those crappy maps, put in something that people want to play. [b]Simple.[/b]<br /><br />ZD07 taken out? Why? People picked it in priv somewhat often.<br />ZDU30 taken out? It was played alot too.<br />While I hate to say it, ODA02 was played quite a bit as well even though I personally didn&#039;t like it because it was too much of a grind.&nbsp; But people wanted to play it, so why not just throw it back in?<br /><br />I would write more, but I think I got my main point across.<br /><br />Summary of my post:&nbsp; Open up and listen to the players more.&nbsp; You might pick certain maps because you genuinely think that you are making the best choices.&nbsp; But when you see the majority of the community bitching about your map picks, you really need to step back and consider those complaints.&nbsp; Drop the stubbornness and represent the player base.&nbsp; I keep seeing this kind of attitude from the board: &quot;You guys are dumb and don&#039;t know what you&#039;re talking about. These maps are great.&quot;&nbsp; How many players do you think want to play in a league in which the admins have this attitude?&nbsp; Please take player opinions in with a little more respect and thought, and perhaps the player base won&#039;t erupt like it has been lately and will show respect back.<br /><br />I&#039;d also like to say that I&#039;m not singling out any particular board members for these problems, but rather as a collective group.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5517, 544, 17, 1322713181, 14, 5517, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Gilgamesh', 'udgilgamesh@gmail.com', '71.61.186.68', 1, 0, '', 'Yea Ladna, I think there could definitely be some big changes as far as including polls to get public opinion.<br /><br />If someone creates a poll, the link to that poll could be put in the #idl topic with a given time frame to end the poll (also listed in the topic).&nbsp; Someone could even copy-paste that link into #idl at random times throughout the day as well.&nbsp; If nobody wants to take the incentive to do it, I will.&nbsp; I can start with Xen&#039;s current poll about maps 28 and 32.<br /><br />I agree that they should not be the sole determinant for IDL policy, but call it a sense of democracy if you will.&nbsp; Players vote on the polls and expect the board to generally reflect those opinions into their decisions.&nbsp; They don&#039;t [b]have[/b] to reflect them, if there is a valid reason to go against the players&#039; wants.<br /><br />Creating more polls on controversial issues would be a great way to get the public&#039;s opinions.&nbsp; They could spark more chatting in IRC as well as the forum, but the thread can&#039;t just be made and expect it to be popular.&nbsp; It needs to be put in the topic, list a time frame in which the poll will be open, someone needs to post the link throughout the day randomly so that as many people as possible can see it and take time to consider the issues.&nbsp; If someone is worried about the issue then they will definitely vote.<br /><br />As Ralph likes to call it, you have to babysit the players.&nbsp; You have to pester them to vote on things.&nbsp; You can&#039;t just sit back, make a thread and expect people to explore the forum to find the threads.&nbsp; Post it in #idl, the #idl topic, or even PMing players on IRC.&nbsp; As I said before, if needed I can help update topics, post links, and pester people.<br /><br />As far as maps go, I think there are more than 3-4 that aren&#039;t very good but that&#039;s my opinion.&nbsp; Here are some of the maps that are dreaded/hated every time I see them come up in the priv server:<br />07, 21, 24, 25, 27<br /><br />Okay so maybe there&#039;s only 5 that are constantly bashed by the players, but hey that&#039;s 5 spots that could be filled by maps that are actually played like ZD07, ZDU30, and that leaves 3 more spots.&nbsp; I have tried games on those maps, and I&#039;ve even picked some of those maps when I was a captain.&nbsp; Nobody wants to play them except a very small group of people.&nbsp; So why not just ditch them and put some maps back in that were actually played.<br /><br />If the board wants to keep only 32 maps in the wad, don&#039;t fill in spaces with those controversial/bad maps.&nbsp; If you want to include them, then expand the number of maps in the wad to include those maps that were taken out that people still like to pick/play.<br /><br />I appreciate all the work you guys have done as far as compiling the wad, but as I&#039;ve mentioned before there are clearly some maps that need to be taken out.&nbsp; A little effort to find better/old maps now would be more beneficial overall, instead of finalizing the wad with maps that nobody wants to play for 1-2 seasons and THEN changing maps.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7247, 711, 18, 1344834597, 8, 7247, 'Homefield Map Selection Week', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'Week 7 (August 13th - August 19th) is Homefield Map selection week. Teams select in reverse order of the first round of the pre-season draft. Any map from the IDL wad may be selected, only by one team, with the exception of this season&#039;s MasterBowl map (Map12) and maps in the slots MB1, MB2, etc. These maps were put in the wad as historical references. <br /><br />To see the selection order as well as what maps have been selected, visit the [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=710.0]S2012 Homefield Map Selection[/url] thread.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7541, 716, 17, 1347331012, 214, 7541, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '69.154.176.211', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;m in the works of putting a wad together for release. I&#039;ve just been busy lately and almost got steamrolled by schoolwork. I&#039;ll probably post one sometime tomorrow after I make sure everything is fine.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7507, 729, 18, 1346865915, 8, 7544, 'Conference Championships', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 1347460899, 'HumanBones', 'We are down to just 4 teams left this season, and right now it&#039;s looking like we will be getting a Sunday night double header. With a set of favorites falling to the underdogs in the first round, will things repeat themselves or will the upsets stop here? [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=726.0]Make your predictions![/url]<br /><br />SXP vs BSK: Sunday @ 8:30pm<br />WAD vs KGB: Thursday (9/13) @ 11:30pm<br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(7768, 748, 24, 1351021587, 19, 7768, 'Re: Results and Demos', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ladna link=topic=748.msg7767#msg7767 date=1350968402]<br />I&#039;ll get the spoiler tag after achievements.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />You listenin? Your mother sucks fuckin big fuckin elephant [b]dicks[/b]. Ya got that?', 'xx', 1);
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	(8050, 782, 17, 1356812077, 7, 8050, 'IDL Site Hosting', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '199.180.105.115', 1, 0, '', 'Hey guys.&nbsp; I am no longer going to host the IDL website.&nbsp; I&#039;m not really that involved with IDL anymore, and it takes me way too long to get around to updating it with changes or whatever.&nbsp; I am willing to host until the domain expires, which is &quot;04-May-2013 22:16:32 UTC&quot;.&nbsp; This is hopefully sufficient notice.&nbsp; Of course this doesn&#039;t mean data loss or anything, I&#039;ll provide database dumps.<br /><br />What does this mean?&nbsp; Well let me break it down:<br /><br />[list]<br />[li]Someone with a webserver needs to host the IDL website, forums and wiki.[/li]<br />[li]Someone needs to take over the Amazon S3 account where all demos are stored.[/li]<br />[li]Someone has to take ownership of the domain name.[/li]<br />[li]Someone needs commit access to the Bitbucket site where IDL.org&#039;s code is stored.[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />Re: Website/Forums/Wiki: Hosting the site itself is pretty easy.&nbsp; You need PostgreSQL (MySQL is not an option because it doesn&#039;t store milliseconds in its datetime fields), Kyoto Tycoon, and some Python dependencies (Flask, boto, etc.) but it&#039;s pretty easy to set up, and I&#039;d be happy to assist anyone looking to run it.<br /><br />I had to hack this version of SMF to run on PostgreSQL, and to this day there are dumb glitches.&nbsp; I would therefore suggest that whomever takes over use different forum software and archive these old forums (which I will not host, to be clear).&nbsp; The IDL site is tied to SMF, however, meaning that if the new maintainer chooses different forum software, it&#039;s possible the site needs modified to work with the new forums.&nbsp; I would be happy to help with that.<br /><br />Re: S3: I&#039;m not sure if I can &quot;transfer&quot; the S3 account to someone.&nbsp; It&#039;s possible someone would have to create their own S3 account and copy all the stuff.&nbsp; S3 is amazingly cheap though, I think I pay like $.30/mo., and that 1-time transfer would probably cost us both $5.&nbsp; We&#039;ll cross that bridge when we get to it though.<br /><br />Re: Domain Name: My host tends to be a little incompetent, so I&#039;m not sure if transferring the domain name will go smoothly or not.&nbsp; Just a heads up.<br /><br />Re: Bitbucket: It&#039;s really easy to fork IDL.org.&nbsp; I think Killingblair has already done this.&nbsp; I&#039;m totally fine with that; if that&#039;s easier then by all means do that.&nbsp; But I&#039;m also willing to give access or whatever to my repo.<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />If no one steps up to host the site, I&#039;ll burn the demos and database dumps to some DVDs and mail copies to Ralphis &amp; Humanbones, and keep a copy for myself.&nbsp; That would be really dumb though.<br /><br />I won&#039;t just take volunteers.&nbsp; IDL&#039;s administration needs to figure out what to do going forward.&nbsp; Whoever they tell me to transfer the domain &amp; S3 account to is who I&#039;ll transfer it to.<br /><br />And finally, just so we&#039;re clear, this isn&#039;t some emotional &quot;goodbye IDL&quot; or &quot;I hate IDL&quot; thread.&nbsp; I think IDL&#039;s doing great.&nbsp; I&#039;m just giving as much notice as I can that I&#039;m gonna close my hosting account, and IDL.org is on it, so someone should save it.', 'xx', 1);
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	(8414, 827, 17, 1360906227, 213, 8414, 'Re: Someone else quits', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', '[center][quote]SoulSucka has decided to quit.[/quote]<br />[img]http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/massvc/6l5DR_zps827d8f87.gif[/img][/center]', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(8447, 827, 17, 1361204793, 2275, 8447, 'Re: Someone else quits', 'Perrondon', 'pmcd_perrondon@hotmail.com', '187.167.7.118', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Nautilus link=topic=827.msg8446#msg8446 date=1361160870]<br />[img]http://oi49.tinypic.com/2lkbrdj.jpg[/img]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />lol.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8205, 804, 23, 1359565960, 8, 8205, 'Re: haha this tournament is fukkin DEAD', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', '[img]http://humanbones.unidoom.org/pics/Abandon-thread1.gif[/img]', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(5524, 546, 17, 1322731585, 214, 5524, 'Re: Map Suggestions', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.31.151', 1, 0, '', 'From my understanding, our posts will not affect what map replaces Libraries or if Rad Suit map(21) will get the boot. Regardless, we apparently need to make suggestions in order to properly bitch about the new maps. So...<br /><br /><br />Ok first thing, the new maps were apparently playtested. I never took part in those play tests because I wasn&#039;t highlighted or invited&nbsp; &gt;:(. I would have gladly taken part if it meant libraries and rad suit would not have made it in. But alas, that is all in the past.<br /><br />In any case, I believe the aforementioned maps are the worst of the new maps. I could live with pos bp if it meant getting rid of those 2. At least you can cross mid in bp, unlike Rad Suit where you won&#039;t make it far if the opposing defender is a damned plasma whore or if you can&#039;t get the suit. At least you can take 2 ways to the flag in bp, unlike libraries where you fucking have to skip around a corner to a dead end flag stand.<br /><br />Ok with the bashing aside I have a few suggestions.<br /><br />ZDCTF07:<br /><br />In addition to what hatred said, there are 3 ways to the flag room, you can get past mid and its a classic.<br /><br />ZDU30:<br /><br />Why was this removed? I really don&#039;t care if it was a mb map or not. It&#039;s a way better map than the terrible two. People can complain and say that it&#039;s dumb, has no flow and you can&#039;t score on it. I will then say go look at EBL vs KGB from season 9, week 2. Hatred and Higgs didn&#039;t have a problem bring in 8 flags while I shut down KGB to 0 flags after we had an embarrassing round 1.<br /><br />ZDCTF13:<br /><br />I loved this map back in the day. What made me hate it was east coast ping whores killing everyone on a shitty ctf server :(. Regardless its a pretty straight-forward map. I think the only downside to it is that it plays in the style of Sewers Smell Bad; map15: Symmetric, squared, grindy and flag stand off goodness. But in its defense, at least you can wall run, play in the slime and best of all you can see everything (hi xen).<br /><br />I too, will try to post more later.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5526, 545, 17, 1322753359, 19, 5526, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Hatred link=topic=545.msg5523#msg5523 date=1322728116]<br />Keep in mind, too, Rust that the additional pistol spawns with no close weapon do more than just not help. In fact, they actually [b]hurt[/b] your chances more since you could potentially spawn there under those circumstances. In the two-spawn version, you know one way or another, you&#039;ll be in position to get a ssg. The map is hard enough to defend as it is, useless spawn points that could hurt a defender even more would only make the map worse.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I disagree. Both on paper and the games we played with the additional spawns proved to actually help defenders. The CG spawn was close to the SSG, there is one spawn with a SG that is in a pretty good zone of control, there&#039;s perhaps one pistol spawn that&#039;s not in a great place, yet the inside pistol spawn is great since you can loop right into the hallway SSG efficiently. It was great spawning there instead of say, the alcove SG spawn. I believe it&#039;s the fact that it can help smart defenders that makes people so wary of it, regardless of the fact you can still be left out to dry no matter the version. It&#039;s a far cry to denounce the spawns as useless.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6030, 591, 20, 1327347143, 19, 6030, 'Re: since we''re frivolously making new topics', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.116.89', 1, 1327347431, 'Xenaero', '[quote author=nostar link=topic=591.msg6029#msg6029 date=1327344644]<br />From what I gather (and I&#039;m late to the party here) this was all a misunderstanding. The site wasn&#039;t updated on time and Mass didn&#039;t have a demo. He was under the impression that all demo penalties from weeks 1/2 would be served in Week 4 because the infractions had been pushed [u]for every player[/u] as a result of the site being down.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />This is all completely and utterly wrong. Here you go, straight from #idlb: http://pastebin.com/gpmZ6cJF (I should mention that this was conducted on Saturday, with timestamps in 24 hour format in EST, so some hours before RRS played last week)<br /><br />Confusion? Misunderstanding? You&#039;re all full of it. Especially you, for blindly defending him when you know full well the real story, as proven in that log. There was no misunderstanding. Perhaps the [b]only[/b] possible defense you would have, and that would be by a stretch, is Bones not saying &#039;by official decree of the commissioner of the IDL all games&#039; demos prior to this week (week 3) must be uploaded before this week&#039;s (week 3) gametime&#039;.<br /><br />Also how can you talk about the falsehood of penalties being served in week 4 when not only did you talk about penalties being served in week [b][u]3[/u][/b] in the board channel should players not upload their demos before their game? That and look at what PBH had to do this week. Give me a break.<br /><br />Oh by the way, you would know better than everyone that the site was fully operational with stats from Week 1 and 2 as laid out by the timeline in one of my previous posts.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6502, 629, 20, 1331515694, 75, 6502, 'Re: Season 11 / Winter 2012 Playoffs - Quarterfinal Round - Discussion and Results', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=629.msg6501#msg6501 date=1331514105]<br />First off, you guys didn&#039;t even deserve to be in the playoffs due to circumstances that I will not elaborate on. Everyone knows what it is, and I&#039;m fairly certain you do too.<br />[/quote]<br />you, sir, lack testes. you are accusing our team of something, but &quot;will not elaborate?&quot; worm.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(9442, 963, 17, 1382936809, 2303, 9442, 'Re: What path exists for the IDL?', 'Watermelon', 'watermelonst@hotmail.com', '99.245.135.86', 1, 1382936976, 'Watermelon', 'If I was commish I would do this:<br /><br />1) Let CTF go quiet for a while, at least until next year when the summer starts so people are active again<br /><br /><br />2) Either consider Zan or ZD again, after what IDL players put the Oda devs through they want nothing to do with us and are glad to see us go; probably for the better:<br /><br />[u]ZANDRONUM PROS/CONS[/u]<br />[list]<br />[li]+ Unlagged is very stable[/li]<br />[li]+ Allows for full customization, essentially ZD 1.0x can be recreated excluding the renderer[/li]<br />[li]+ Active player base[/li]<br />[li]+ No enforced master ban list on private servers[/li]<br />[li]+ If I was allowed to make a .exe for IDL players, we would get: Perfect unlagged, better collision detection, ZD in zandronum (ex: sitrep/hud/whathaveyou), and zero bullshit random crap[/li]<br />[li]- Zan admins dislike competitive players, so I don&#039;t see too much support over there from anyone (basically I would be the dev catering to the IDL) which means custom binaries[/li]<br />[li]- Player base is fucking retarded[/li]<br />[li]- Unreliable, at least this season we had mostly reliable players, but if we fill up our bottom ranks with zan players while we lose the top... then what?[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />[u]ZDAEMON PROS/CONS[/u]<br /><br />[list]<br />[li]+ Everyone is familiar with ZD[/li]<br />[li]+ 1.09 now is now a lot better than the first release of 1.09[/li]<br />[li]+ SSG still feels nice[/li]<br />[li]+ May bring back old players who refuse to play on oda[/li]<br />[li]- Unlagged or whiffing is even worse than before, very frustrating now[/li]<br />[li]- A lot of active IDL players are banned from ZD[/li]<br />[li]- Would fill bottom ranks with laggy mexicans who don&#039;t speak english[/li]<br />[li]- No priv servers, I think 1.09 enforces the master banlist on private servers; I could be wrong since I never tried it, nor am I banned[/li]<br />[li]- Euros will have a difficult time playing[/li]<br />[li]- Possibly disallowing public posts or such for spreading the IDL (may result in bans, see Hatred in #zdplayers getting masterbanned for asking if the IDL still lives)[/li]<br />[li]- Ralphis would never get unbanned, others may stand a chance[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br /><br />3) Get a preliminary list from EVERY player with the following checklist:<br />[ ] Would you play ZDaemon on american servers again?<br />[ ] Would you play Zandronum if ZDaemon did not happen?<br />[ ] Would you play Zandronum if it was modified to be like ZDaemon?<br /><br /><br />4) Decide on the above what to do<br /><br /><br /><br />The hardest part is getting a PHP/HTML developer to make the site. I can do the backend and stuff in Java or something, but I have no idea how to make a proper HTML/PHP website. Ladna is pretty amazing at what he did. Jenova is not someone we can bother with this because he&#039;s a pretty busy guy and most likely does not have the drive to undertake such an epic thing, especially since the future of the IDL is on shaky ground as we speak.<br /><br /><br />Dew will make an interesting commissioner, now that Bones has pretty much said &quot;fuck everything doom related&quot; (as we can see by stats not being done and his lack of care for the remains of the IDL) I don&#039;t see him running it again. I don&#039;t blame him since he was sort of inspired to run it again, but the drama involved just made him hate it.<br /><br /><br />If custom binaries are made for Zan, then the IDL better be fully committed to it because I don&#039;t want to waste a lot of my time making custom binaries if it just falls apart, I&#039;d need 2-4 weeks to make it fully functional.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7248, 708, 22, 1344835054, 89, 7248, 'Re: WEEK 6 - MAP27 BPCTF26 (AUG 6 - AUG 12) - Discussion and Results', 'Solar_Flare', 'cdstrangle@gmail.com', '65.68.74.95', 1, 0, '', 'Bailstrike', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5576, 547, 17, 1322974952, 163, 5576, 'Re: Railguns in CTF', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 0, '', 'Some of the maps look pretty good, Fast. It would be disappointing to exclude giving them an opportunity though as I think a few of them would make excellent IDL maps - with the railguns being removed of course. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5525, 546, 17, 1322753305, 163, 5526, 'Re: Map Suggestions', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 1322753546, 'Hatred', '[quote=&quot;RustInPeace&quot;]ZDU30:<br /><br />Why was this removed? I really don&#039;t care if it was a mb map or not. It&#039;s a way better map than the terrible two. People can complain and say that it&#039;s dumb, has no flow and you can&#039;t score on it. I will then say go look at EBL vs KGB from season 9, week 2. Hatred and Higgs didn&#039;t have a problem bring in 8 flags while I shut down KGB to 0 flags after we had an embarrassing round 1.[/quote]<br /><br />That is true but look at the matches between all the teams in week 2 of Winter2011. Of the 6 matches, 7 rounds features teams winning by reaching 5 caps; 4 rounds features scores of teams winning with only 4; 2 rounds with a team winning with 3 flags; One round with a team winning with a total of 2 and one round of a team winning with only 1 flag. In total, there were 15 rounds played with 77 total flags captures. The following week, map29 (more or less considered a runner-friendly map) has 14 total rounds played with 97 total captures. So while it is not as runner friendly as a map like 29, in comparison with 30 from winter2011, 29 had 20 more captures in one fewer round. Given the style of play both maps offer, I think this suggests 30 is more runner friendly than most people may think. In fact, map08 is far more stalematish and nobody talks about removing that. In fact, like week 2 of winter2011, map08 features 15 total rounds with 54 total captures. So using the argument that the map doesn&#039;t have enough scoring has been proved to be false. <br /><br />Regardless, it was also a masterbowl map which featured one of the greatest playoff matches of all time. The flow isn&#039;t as runner friendly and it is a grind-it-out map. I only use numbers to give people an idea of how easy it was to actually score on the map since a lot of people have argued it&#039;s almost impossible to score on. There are several different variables to consider like teams, players involved and the sense or urgency teams would be approaching week 2 with compared to that of week 9. So saying that stat alone fairly represents the degree of difficulty getting flag captures in the map would be incorrect. But it does give you a good idea of it&#039;s flow, especially when you compare those numbers to map08&#039;s numbers. <br /><br />I personally enjoy the map, the blue armor means more than people think. There are better maps out there, sure, but I just wanted to give this map some positive light. It&#039;s not as bad as people think! And ask yourselves this: would you rather play zdu30 or bpctf/libraries??? ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5527, 546, 17, 1322753652, 19, 5527, 'Re: Map Suggestions', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 0, '', '[quote]had I known the board was more open minded to people suggesting maps for the next IDL wad[/quote]<br /><br />I know I had said this several times when rumors were going around about what maps were being removed and people were complaining even then. No one had acted on it, so I assumed no one had any suggestions. But of course this is #idl we&#039;re talking about, where no one has any ideas, only criticisms. It&#039;s a pity this topic wasn&#039;t made months ago.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5528, 545, 17, 1322754116, 163, 5528, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 0, '', 'Having one spawn alone that leaves you left for dead is bad. The 2-spawn version does not do this under any circumstance since you will be able to pick up an SSG on either side. If you spawn on the lower entrance part of the map with pistol only, back-tracking to get an SSG kills any chance of catching up to the runner - regardless of what exit they use (keep in mind, there&#039;s 3 different ways to exit the base). In my mind, that totally ruins the map. Sure, some maps put you in bad spots spawn-wise, but usually they give you a good weapon (sg/cg/ssg) to chase with either on the spawn spot or on the way out of the base. This spawn does not do this and spawning there after being fragged as a defender would probably result in giving away a flag. <br /><br />However, I agree that the other spawn spots aren&#039;t bad at all. I didn&#039;t mind them much but I am more for keeping it in it&#039;s original broken spawn form since it&#039;s proven. As I said, for me, the one bad spawn totally destroys the value of the other spawns, which sucks!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6031, 591, 20, 1327348053, 163, 6031, 'Re: since we''re frivolously making new topics', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.131.248', 1, 0, '', '[quote=&quot;nostar&quot;]You guys are fucking ruthless.[/quote]<br /><br />I find this hilarious coming from you. You will type paragraph after paragraph calling somebody stupid and idiotic over the dumbest shit. But whatever, you&#039;re probably right. We should tone it down and not be so aggressive. But hey, what can you do? We really like DOOM.<br /><br />The biggest issue I have with all of this is that demos were a huge problem last season and were supposed to not be a problem at all this season (HEH I&#039;M THE ONE CHASING PEOPLE DOWN FOR THEM - I&#039;M NOT ON THE BOARD). The even more disturbing thing about this is that if this were Bones instead of Mass, [b]you guys would be all over him.[/b] To be honest, if Bones had done this, this thread would have 6 pages by now instead of just one. But hey, I&#039;m going to just stay out of this for now - has nothing to do with me. I&#039;ll just be up all the demo slackers asses if anyone needs me! ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6503, 629, 20, 1331519640, 213, 6503, 'Re: Season 11 / Winter 2012 Playoffs - Quarterfinal Round - Discussion and Results', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 1331519825, 'MassVC', '[quote author=dew link=topic=629.msg6502#msg6502 date=1331515694]<br />you, sir, lack testes. you are accusing our team of something, but &quot;will not elaborate?&quot; worm.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I think he&#039;s trying to avoid an all-out flame war. (As opposed to a circumscribed one?) And if this thread turns into a discussion about that I will shut it right down like Romeo.&nbsp; JUST DROP AND GIVE ME 50 YOU ...', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7508, 726, 22, 1346882196, 267, 7508, 'Re: Season 12 / Summer 2012 Playoffs - Conference Finals - Discussion and Results', 'RecKle$$_', 'Aesthesic@hotmail.com', '189.135.84.190', 1, 0, '', 'WAD vs KGB<br />ros wont show up and tai is leaving d<br />wad wins 2-0<br />[img]http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/377192_514246891934885_846728383_n.jpg[/img]<br /><br />SXP vs BSK<br />close match but at the end legion is going to respawn rape their ssg and make them choke or tosen is gonna show up again and make bsk lose<br /><br />sxp wins 2-1', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7542, 716, 17, 1347375044, 17, 7542, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'MionicDonut', 'Sparx7300@yahoo.com', '131.156.232.170', 1, 0, '', 'http://www.speedyshare.com/YDKUG/Thing-Donut-v1a.wad<br /><br />Changelog:<br />[b]<br />Middle does 20 dps now.[/b]<br />Added previously missing textures to the stairs in the middle.<br />Some Dynamic Lighting for sky areas<br />A few more vines.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7727, 741, 17, 1349988211, 147, 7727, 'Re: What''s cooking for the next season?', 'LordBritish', 'a_west_2007@hotmail.com', '24.209.34.39', 1, 0, '', 'Removing conferences and divisions is a complete no-brainer to me, as is the 7-team round robin season.&nbsp; I&#039;ve been against the gross number of playoff teams for a long time now and am glad somebody else is finally on board.&nbsp; I&#039;m gonna try my hardest to spring for 4 teams (really I&#039;d like 3 but I know that probably isn&#039;t feasible) since 50% seems like a good number.<br /><br />Rocket splash: full power, this is the nfl, not arena league.<br /><br />Intermission time is already so goddamn long.&nbsp; Rewarding teams that are unprepared or don&#039;t use TS by giving them additional time to change strategies isn&#039;t smart to me.&nbsp; This stuff should be worked out beforehand.&nbsp; If I had things my way there&#039;d be 10 seconds for intermission, which is plenty of time to crack your knuckles and scratch your balls, the only 2 necessary actions.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7249, 708, 22, 1344873029, 0, 7249, 'Re: WEEK 6 - MAP27 BPCTF26 (AUG 6 - AUG 12) - Discussion and Results', 'Soul Sucka', '', '177.16.163.124', 1, 0, '', ' :&#039;(', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5670, 559, 20, 1323900977, 73, 5670, 'Re: The Next Super Charger Squad', 'Quiksilver', 'joshbryantmusic@gmail.com', '99.71.124.161', 1, 0, '', 'lol. I guess you are in the Eagles neck of the woods. Expecting a doom version of Invincible?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5529, 545, 17, 1322754906, 19, 5529, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 1322755145, 'Xenaero', '[quote author=Hatred link=topic=545.msg5528#msg5528 date=1322754116]<br />Having one spawn alone that leaves you left for dead is bad.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Do you want me to point out all the veteran (for lack of a better word) maps that do this and have done this for eons, with little public outcry on spawns that leave you for dead? In no way is map28 with a 6-spawn system unique in this respect and would be unfair to characterize it as such.<br /><br />I would actually characterize that with the 2-spawn map28, you&#039;re already at a huge risk of dying and losing the flag as a defender simply by spawning so far away, as has been proven to happen in many games, including the playoffs. Talk about being left for dead.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5530, 545, 17, 1322758708, 163, 5530, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 1322758909, 'Hatred', 'I didn&#039;t have a problem returning flags. ;)<br /><br />And yes, I would want you to point this out to me. Maps like 29 give you pistol spawns but either way you run, you will pass a super shotgun en route to chasing the flag carrier. It&#039;s not where you spawn as much as it is what you spawn with. Spawning with a pistol and back-tracking to even get a weapon is bad, no matter how you slice it. I can&#039;t think of a map that does that at all. So I would encourage you to give me a list of maps that do. <br /><br />As I said, every other spawn gives you a good placement to pick up weapons while pursing a flag carrier. But we seem to be against editing those sort of things, so why not leave it the way it is? Besides, it seems as though more people want the original spawn spots anyway!<br /><br />One quick edit:<br /><br />When I say spawning with a pistol and having a good weapon in route, I don&#039;t mean that as only an ssg. There are maps where SG&#039;s are in place, too (20 comes to mind here with the sg spawn and the RL spawn where u can jump through the window and grab SG). SG&#039;s are good chasing weapons, they do more damage on longer-distance shots than the SSG does and still make for good weapons to have since two well placed shots can put a runner down. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5532, 545, 17, 1322763233, 10, 5532, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '64.141.192.13', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=545.msg5531#msg5531 date=1322761425]I&#039;ve pioneered a style of map28 defense that has been used effectively by myself and other defenders.[/quote]<br /><br />What?<br /><br />[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=545.msg5531#msg5531 date=1322761425]Would this change using 6-spawns? I can&#039;t say.[/quote]<br /><br />Yes. Not even debatable. It changes the map entirely. Currently, you know that a player is going to spawn in one of two places once you kill them so when you move up, you can almost always have a good idea of which side they&#039;re coming from. Add four other spawns and the map dynamics change entirely. This cannot be disputed at any rational level.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6032, 591, 20, 1327350751, 213, 6032, 'Re: since we''re frivolously making new topics', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', 'I left my computer at least half an hour before Bones said &quot;i think this week gametime is a good idea&quot; to Nostar, and restarted hours later without reading the backlogs from #idlb.&nbsp; As Xenaero already said, he certainly didn&#039;t read them either.&nbsp; And if this is now an argument about absenteeism from #idlb, then Xenaero&#039;s really in deep shit.&nbsp; I think &quot;massvc i think this week gametime is a good idea&quot; or &quot;massvc the demo deadline is gametime&quot; or &quot;massvc play your penalty this week&quot; would all have been damning evidence.&nbsp; Since there isn&#039;t a non-doctored log of Bones saying anything like this in a pm or with a highlight or within half an hour of my being active in a channel, I think my point remains.<br /><br />If it&#039;s unclear how this is even evidence for or against [WHAT ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT], it took me two hours out of my day to explain to Xenaero through personalized discussion what was going on so that he could make on-topic arguments against me, and he is one of the smarter players in the league.<br /><br />For the record, I am not sorry for anything that has happened.&nbsp; (Not just on Saturday night, but ever.)', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6504, 631, 17, 1331523408, 8, 6504, 'Regarding DDOS stuff', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'Let&#039;s start with one thing: the idea of DDOS&#039;ing was not the well kept secret I hoped it was. I didn&#039;t want people to know about it because (and perhaps you&#039;ve seen #idl today) it caused some discord. I&#039;ll explain: over the course of the season myself, as well as a few other players, experienced some oddly timed lag. Our connections would be fine during practice, and then as soon as the actual game started, it was impossible for us to do anything. I began to suspect something was awry, because I&#039;ve experienced some crap lag because of location/bad ISP (hello California), and I&#039;ve experienced being DDOS&#039;d before (hello tdeath). These lag issues I went through reminded me of the latter. I did some investigating. I discovered I wasn&#039;t the only player who had these things happen to them. In fact, I discovered 4 separate instances where this occurred. Without being able to [b]conclusively prove anything[/b], I set out to make the best case I could based on the information I had gathered. <br /><br />I ultimately decided that my suspicions would be better proven true with more evidence, so I held back on going &quot;public&quot; and making some type of administrative ruling. I believe this was the right call because as I&#039;ve mentioned, it&#039;s really impossible to prove without a doubt someone committed these acts. I didn&#039;t want it to be a conspiracy theory, I wanted to present something to my peers and the rest of the league with integrity and confidence. Needless to say, things didn&#039;t turn out as I had planned. As Mass put it, &quot;we thought something might happen, it didn&#039;t, maybe because it wasn&#039;t going to, and maybe because it found out what we thought.&quot; I feel a lot better knowing I didn&#039;t come out and accuse someone of doing something without having a proper amount of evidence.<br /><br />So I&#039;d like everyone to drop it now. It&#039;s over, and there&#039;s nothing left to do. I&#039;d like for this not to become a flame thread. If you want to flame me, that&#039;s okay. Thanks.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7728, 741, 17, 1349989564, 75, 7728, 'Re: What''s cooking for the next season?', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=LordBritish link=topic=741.msg7727#msg7727 date=1349988211]If I had things my way there&#039;d be 10 seconds for intermission, which is plenty of time to crack your knuckles and scratch your balls, the only 2 necessary actions.<br />[/quote]<br />it&#039;s nowhere near enough for taking a long sip of wine and refilling the glass. actually... i will measure how long that takes and that will be the new intermission time.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7543, 136, 1, 1347381326, 19, 7543, 'Re: It''s coming', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', '[img]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/218111_136658019813886_1159392076_n.jpg[/img]', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8051, 782, 17, 1356819556, 8, 8051, 'Re: IDL Site Hosting', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'Whenever you get the chance, I&#039;d like to talk to you about all this crap. Of course, we have 5 months but the sooner the better I suppose!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7770, 739, 1, 1351122211, 0, 7770, 'Re: Capo chalenges Legion :D', 'Soul Sucka', '', '177.40.37.22', 1, 0, '', 'And so Capo pussies out (like usual). Good job Legion, close games!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5536, 545, 17, 1322766760, 0, 5536, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.9.95', 1, 0, '', 'Ralph&#039;s textures are better.&nbsp; Super bright white textures just don&#039;t work on modern LCDs.<br /><br />Regarding spawns I haven&#039;t played the map much.&nbsp; I don&#039;t think 6 spawns is a huge change as it could be since the spawns are still spread about 50-50 over each main entrance.&nbsp; If they changed the spawn rate from one side to another it&#039;d be a much bigger change.&nbsp; Going out the gate is still going to likely be the preferred method of capping.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5533, 545, 17, 1322763787, 19, 5534, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 1322764562, 'Xenaero', '[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=545.msg5532#msg5532 date=1322763233]<br />What?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Gate defense!<br /><br />[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=545.msg5532#msg5532 date=1322763233]<br />Yes. Not even debatable. It changes the map entirely. Currently, you know that a player is going to spawn in one of two places once you kill them so when you move up, you can almost always have a good idea of which side they&#039;re coming from. Add four other spawns and the map dynamics change entirely. This cannot be disputed at any rational level.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />You took what I was saying out of context. I will clarify. Defending won&#039;t change. Anticipation of runners won&#039;t change. Obviously from a runner standpoint you can&#039;t solo run with absolute certainty where players will spawn anymore perhaps save sound directionals. What other dynamics in particular are altered?<br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6033, 591, 20, 1327351183, 64, 6033, 'Re: since we''re frivolously making new topics', 'BloodStrike', 'fat1802002@yahoo.com', '24.118.252.216', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=MassVC link=topic=591.msg6032#msg6032 date=1327350751]<br />I left my computer at least half an hour before Bones said &quot;i think this week gametime is a good idea&quot; to Nostar, and restarted hours later without reading the backlogs from #idlb.&nbsp; As Xenaero already said, he certainly didn&#039;t read them either.&nbsp; And if this is now an argument about absenteeism from #idlb, then Xenaero&#039;s really in deep shit.&nbsp; I think &quot;massvc i think this week gametime is a good idea&quot; or &quot;massvc the demo deadline is gametime&quot; or &quot;massvc play your penalty this week&quot; would all have been damning evidence.&nbsp; Since there isn&#039;t a non-doctored log of Bones saying anything like this in a pm or with a highlight or within half an hour of my being active in a channel, I think my point remains.<br /><br />If it&#039;s unclear how this is even evidence for or against [WHAT ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT], it took me two hours out of my day to explain to Xenaero through personalized discussion what was going on so that he could make on-topic arguments against me, and he is one of the smarter players in the league.<br /><br />For the record, I am not sorry for anything that has happened.&nbsp; (Not just on Saturday night, but ever.)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />And yet you still had the knowledge of not being able to submit the demo, and you failed to submit the demo [i][b]before you played your next game[/b][/i] and you still played anyway knowing this fact...<br /><br />[b]COOL STORY BRO[/b]', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5598, 550, 17, 1323453810, 130, 5598, 'IDL Maps', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', 'Ok so this is the time of year that I get to procrastinating doing my finals work and that means IDL forums get more of my text walls. I&#039;ve looked into the IDL map packs and the selections/removals/replacements from IDL2009 through IDL2012. Here is what I&#039;m working with:<br /><br />[list]<br />[li]In 2009 Ralph made the IDL wad. Before that IDL used the ZDCTF packs 1-3[/li]<br />[li]In migrating from ZDCTF to the IDL2009 wad there were 10 map replacements and 2 additions (as ZDCTF1-3 is only 30 maps). [/li]<br />[li]IDL 2010 and 2011 wads saw 7 replacements each and some map shuffling.[/li]<br />[li]IDL 2012 saw 12 changes, 13 if you count the map11 clone.[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />These are the statistics of map turnover. Historically maps that received little to no competitive play were ousted. Similarly, this board weeded out maps that received little to no play in Private CTF. That may have been a mistake considering PCTF and IDL are vastly different environments, however, the way in which we judge a maps success is largely by the frequency it is picked in priv.<br /><br />The list of the maps we ousted maps includes:<br /><br />[list]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/odactf1.wad/2]ODA02[/url][/li]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/madctf.wad/11]MADCTF11[/url][/li]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/zdctfmp.wad/7]ZDCTF07[/url][/li]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/zductf.wad/10]ZDU10[/url][/li]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/zdctfmp2.wad/19]ZDCTF19[/url][/li]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/ReakuCTF.wad/1]REAKU01[/url][/li]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/zductf.wad/8]ZDU08[/url][/li]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/ccorectfmp1a.wad/7]CC07[/url][/li]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/zdctfmp3-.wad/25]ZDCTF25[/url][/li]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/zdctfmp3-.wad/27]ZDCTF27[/url][/li]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/zductf.wad/30]ZDU30[/url][/li]<br />[li][url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/maps/32in24-7.wad/27]THIRTY7-27[/url][/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />I&#039;d like to take a few moments to shed some light on why we decided to remove these maps. Certainly I cannot speak for all the board members, but I am privy to the rationale present when the decisions were made and certainly my own take on things.<br /><br />[u]Something Epic II - ODA02[/u]<br />One thing that we have found in IDL is that players like more offensively leaning maps. This is probably because the weapon balance in doom (and the odds of scoring vs being scored on) is so heavily tilted toward defense. I personally like grind maps because they play to my strengths however many people prefer a more free-flowing game. This map fell into a group of maps that we felt were slow, low-scoring and overall boring to play for 20-30 minutes.<br /><br />[u]Caves - MADCTF11[/u]<br />And on the complete opposite side of the spectrum you have this gem of a map. This map is similar is play style to ZDCTF18. It fosters a very chaotic playing style that often results in flag standoffs and extremely disorganized roles for any 3 person team. Over its 4 seasons in the wad it was never selected for the regular season schedule and was never played on as a home field. <br /><br />[u]The Excavation - ZDCTF07[/u]<br />This was a bone of contention for many on the board. While I think we all have a certain appreciation for this map it has received significantly reduced play in the past couple of years. The inclusion onto the schedule (in the Ralphis era) was obligatory and aside from that it was extremely underplayed for a map that survived 10 seasons of IDL. I can see the merit in that map but change for change&#039;s sake actually can foster progress. My own personal rationale for voting this map out was in two parts.<br /><br />First I think there are maps that serve a similar playing style. One comparison I&#039;m sure will draw criticism is to that of ZDCTF09. They both have walled in bases. they both of raised and protected flags with health nearby. They both have entrances with a lift/door. The different I&#039;ve found in them is that map09 is one of the only maps in IDL history with a BFG in it. This gives the mid some level of importance that the mid in 07 never had to me.<br /><br />Second I felt like there had been far less games played on 07 in the past few seasons. Even when it came up as a scheduled map in IDL people were loathe to practice it if only because it is such a well known map that practice for many teams was without reward.<br /><br />[u]Compatible Mainframe - ZDU10[/u]<br />This might have been a preference one. I personally think it&#039;s okay but it&#039;s large and tricky from every position. The overarching reason this was ousted was because it didn&#039;t get played very much and the games that were IDL based were underwhelming.<br /><br />[u]UAC Headquarters - ZDCTF19[/u]<br />This falls into a similar category as ZDCTF07. From my perspective there are even more reasons for it to be ousted than 07. It&#039;s large, full of health and tends to produce very slow brooding games. It&#039;s an okay romp for offensive players but it&#039;s another map where 2D will show dividends. In addition it&#039;s a map that has seen every season of IDL. It wasn&#039;t a popular map and it has been in the wad since IDL began. Seemed like at the very least we could chance taking out a map that wasn&#039;t played virtually at all and put in something that might spark more play. As a relevant aside this is one of my favorite doom ctf maps of all time.<br /><br />[u]Andrigal II - REAKU01[/u]<br />This was one of two maps that were universally canned last season. To the few of you who disagree with the decision I&#039;m not really sure what to say. People just didn&#039;t like it very much. <br /><br />[u]Brickrun - ZDU08[/u]<br />This map has somehow seen 6 seasons of IDL. I can remember 1 season that it was a regular season map and I don&#039;t think it every got a playoff pick. Much as I think it&#039;s an okay map we def. gave it a sporting try and it wasn&#039;t well received.<br /><br />[u]Demios Hazzard Zone - CC07[/u]<br />Was broken. Zdaemon is broken. Map is broken. Boo hiss.<br /><br />[u]Lethal Industry - ZDCTF25[/u]<br />Another map we all felt was just too large for IDL. Another map we all knew had been in IDL since IDL started. Another map we felt we could remove for something fresher. <br /><br />[u]Exophase III - ZDCTF27[/u]<br />Another map we all felt was just too large for IDL. Another map we all knew had been in IDL since IDL started. Another map we felt we could remove for something fresher. <br /><br />[u]Redemption II - ZDU30[/u]<br />This is an interesting map. Maybe the one mistake I will cop to making in the wad. This map has good games on it, is well liked by many, was actively played in priv and has had many effective strategies. I&#039;d probably like to have this one back. Touche hindsight.<br /><br />[u]Insane Gunslinger Compound - THIRTY7-27 [/u]<br />5 people liked this map. Ralphis, Mike, Jenova, Lordbritish, Ladna, and some other person who likes to run I guess. It&#039;s one of the maps that I&#039;d probably suffer if I didn&#039;t think we could do better. And again it&#039;s been in every IDL****.wad made. Time for new things.<br />----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />In summation we had about 3 criteria for making the IDL2012 wad.<br /><br />[list type=decimal]<br />[li]Keep maps people like[/li]<br />[li]Get rid of maps people don&#039;t like[/li]<br />[li]Put new maps into the wad as often as we can[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />My personal feelings are that there were 8 terrible maps in the IDL2009 wad, 5 in IDL2010, 5 in IDL2011 and 5 in the IDL2012 wad. Considering we replaced almost twice as many maps as the last 2 wads and maintained a similar error rate, I&#039;m pretty pleased. <br /><br />Addressing questions like &quot;Why did you remove _______ but not ______&quot; will almost always result in an answer like &quot;because we liked the latter better&quot;. There are underplayed maps in the IDL wad right now, we know this. Map09 is a great example. In some cases we can make reasonable arguments for keeping maps, in others it&#039;s a matter of preference. Before we hear conspiracy from the gallery I&#039;d like to point out there has been significant turnover in the people who pick maps. From when the board was created up until today there have been [url=http://wiki.intldoomleague.org/index.php?title=List_of_IDL_Board_Members]12 board members[/url] with various clan affiliations, playing styles and connection qualities. <br /><br />I like this wad, I think it&#039;s good and there are maps in it I would rather watch Amateur Cricket than play one round on. Then again I can say that about every IDL wad so far. If only we could CTF on Sunder.wad. One can always dream.<br />', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(5602, 552, 17, 1323492401, 158, 5602, 'Re: Montreal Server', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '173.206.71.33', 1, 0, '', 'They&#039;re grrrrrreat!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5607, 552, 17, 1323492995, 3, 5607, 'Re: Montreal Server', 'Joshsmith', 'tonihawker666@yahoo.com', '99.9.212.71', 1, 0, '', 'I like them a lot. I ping a little higher to them than I do to TT(not by much, 98-113 instead of 88-103), but I feel as if they are much more stable. I&#039;m comparing them to TT as that is the only alternative at the moment, which I feel I just can&#039;t aim as well on for whatever reason. Also, I sometimes ping 140-170 to TT for unknown reasons, while pinging fine to other servers(this happens to DUI NJ too though, every other server is fine). <br /><br />I know I&#039;m not playing in the IDL, but as a west coast priv player who pings higher to them than TT, I like them more. To me it seems the majority of players do as well, although there are a few who like TT more. I think Montreal is more than worthy of replacing TT/serving as an alternative, especially if it saves you some money. Seems like a win/win if TT is sticking around as well.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5610, 552, 17, 1323500171, 20, 5610, 'Re: Montreal Server', 'Mantis-X', 'nesman90@aol.com', '24.88.122.148', 1, 0, '', 'I like them... They feel much more stable to me.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5614, 552, 17, 1323537109, 75, 5614, 'Re: Montreal Server', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'i ping about 20-30 less to montreal than to tt and i feel like the latency is better for me.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5612, 552, 17, 1323504775, 0, 5612, 'Re: Montreal Server', 'capodecima', '', '90.179.151.60', 1, 0, '', 'cool servers and stable...', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7250, 712, 22, 1344889682, 157, 7250, 'WEEK 7 - THIRTY417: Buntaluffigus (AUG 13 - AUG 19) - Discussion and Results', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '71.116.2.206', 1, 0, '', '[center][b][size=5][size=4][b]Official Servers for Week 7 of IDL Summer 2012[/b][/size][/size][/b]<br /><br /><br />[b][size=4]:: IDL CHICAGO ::[/size][/b]<br />[color=red][International Doom League Week 7 - MAP17 - A][/color]<br />[b]74.91.122.209:14000[/b]<br /><br />[color=blue][International Doom League&nbsp; Week 7 - MAP17 - B][/color]<br />[b]74.91.122.209:14001[/b]<br /><br />[color=red][International Doom League Week 7 - MAP17 - C][/color]<br />[b]74.91.122.209:14002[/b]<br /><br />[color=blue][International Doom League Week 7 - MAP17 - D][/color]<br />[b]74.91.122.209:14003[/b]<br /><br />================================================<br /><br />Brokeback Cowboys Vs Super Chargers <br /><br />Berserker Packers Vs Mass Destruction conf<br /><br />Sexual Panthers Vs Killing Browns<br /><br />We&#039;re All Doomed Vs Super Shotgun Spurs conf<br /><br />================================================[/center]<br />', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7510, 716, 17, 1346882831, 214, 7510, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '69.154.176.23', 1, 0, '', 'Your map seems to have some interesting things going on. The lift in the mid could be accessible from the outside and doing so would allow faking for unaware defenders. Perhaps the lift that accesses the 2nd floor outside the base could be faster. Perhaps even the speed of king1&#039;s lift. I put the submissions received so far together and hopefully there are more to come.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7544, 729, 18, 1347419581, 8, 7544, 'Re: Conference Championships', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 1347460883, 'HumanBones', '[quote author=HumanBones link=topic=729.msg7507#msg7507 date=1346865915]<br />WAD vs KGB: Thursday (9/13) @ 11:30pm<br />[/quote]', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7771, 739, 1, 1351122423, 75, 7771, 'Re: Capo chalenges Legion :D', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Jarin_cz link=topic=739.msg7769#msg7769 date=1351047741]<br />this guy is useless also lost on zan against fluffles , i dont think i have more lust play against this noob...<br />[/quote]<br />didn&#039;t you lose to fluffles in edl too? 2-0? with entryway used?', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5605, 552, 17, 1323492703, 0, 5605, 'Re: Montreal Server', 'Soul Sucka', '', '177.42.31.213', 1, 0, '', 'Pretty stable and low-pingy for me, I really like it. There really is nothing else that needs to be said, I don&#039;t think!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6505, 630, 20, 1331523715, 0, 6505, 'Re: IDL WINTER 2012 ALLSTAR SELECTION', 'Soul Sucka', '', '177.42.14.208', 1, 0, '', 'It&#039;s not prohibited by the rules, but it&#039;s still kind of a dick move nonetheless. :D ', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5534, 545, 17, 1322764041, 10, 5534, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '64.141.192.13', 1, 0, '', 'It changes entirely for defenders. I already explained that in my post. I took nothing out of context and replied directly to what you said. If you mean something other than what you type, you should type that instead!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5557, 536, 20, 1322839227, 130, 5557, 'Re: Maps for this season', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', 'Fast I liked your contest map and I tried to play it seriously a few times. If you make another map don&#039;t put a berserk tunnel in. That will prevent some of the nonsense we saw.<br /><br />I want to talk a little about my map preferences. Because while I care about what you all think, I also want to play maps I like in IDL. Most of the maps I enjoy are maps where the defense gets to move around a lot. I like thinking about doom instead of just standing in the same 3-4 places and shooting. I know, my camper reputation is being tarnished but it&#039;s true. I don&#039;t like stand and shoot maps. They&#039;re boring and if you look down at my map selections you can see what I picked what I did.<br /><br />In that vein I hate every map that White listed. I voted every one of them out of the wad this year. Fortunately for you guys (I guess) there were cooler heads and they prevailed. So you get to keep the worst zdctf maps and the most bland 32in24 map. Yippie.<br /><br />This is just me as a player talking but I looked at the maps we removed and the ones we added. My personal opinion is that I like about 70% of the changes we made. Maybe this is hindsight, maybe I voted this way, someone will have to check the votes if they care but I looked at the map evolution thread Mass made and I really only disagreed with 4 of those changes and 2 of those 4 I wasn&#039;t upset about, I just wouldn&#039;t have done it. I&#039;m pretty sure I personally voted out zd7 zd18 zd19 zd25 zd27. On average, each of those maps were voted against by 3 board members (different members per map). Keep in mind that we have a rather balanced voting block in a euro, an offensive minded player, two defenders and a mid player. <br /><br />Out of the previous wads 32 maps I only wanted 14 of them back in the wad. That means I wanted 18 maps gone, mostly the ones you guys like. Now before you get your pitch forks I&#039;ll tell you that there is a balancing force for good on the board. Mike voted for 28 of the maps back from the 2011 wad. He and I were the extreme ends of the voting. From the 5 board members votes the average maps to keep from the previous wad was roughly 18. When we voted we also took the votes of Humanbones and Whiteboy and their votes added in changed the average from 18.5 to 18.3. If any of you had been in the server with us I imagine we would have taken your votes too. If any of you want to submit your votes now I encourage you to. Giving the board more data to work with is always a positive thing. It&#039;s why we have polls and why we have forum discussions. Doing this before wad creating is a better idea than doing it now, but this is how leagues grow and get better.<br /><br />Anyway back to maps. The averaged board member wanted to cut 13.6 maps. We cut 13. This should illustrate a number of things. First, that we spent at least some time on map selection. We really did I assure you. Not only did we all individually dig through 13 wads we also play tested the ones that garnered interest, and then repeated that process at least 2 more times to come to the 13 replacements that were made. Second, the maps added were roughly equal to the # of maps that the averaged board vote wanted to get rid of. This is because we picked the top 10 of our larger list, discussed the changes, added in the contest maps and voila!<br /><br />One of my strategies in voting was to focus on a select few maps that I personally really enjoy, that I think the league would enjoy and that would be good for 3v3. I came up with roughly 15 maps out of 13 wads that fit the bill. After several elimination rounds&nbsp; I whittled the maps down to 3. Those maps were ZDCTF02, ZDU34 and SmartCTF01 (aka The Christmas Map). Those were the maps I really wanted to see in IDL2012.wad. When it came time to vote, I made it a point to put an emphasis on those maps and there you have it! Nostar&#039;s map selection process.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5535, 545, 17, 1322764580, 19, 5535, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 1322764671, 'Xenaero', 'I misread a phrase and figured you meant from the runner side perspective. While I&#039;m at it...<br /><br />What&#039;s interesting about mid play is that I don&#039;t think it changes a whole lot. If you move up you still have to watch only two exits and by that token two entrances on your side. If you move up [b]into their base[/b] which you should never do as defense of course it changes due to spawn points being added. It&#039;s not like this adds a new corridor. I&#039;m not entirely sure if I follow what you&#039;re saying, because I can&#039;t see how this impacts defense other than a random chance of spawning at different locations.<br /><br />If you&#039;re talking about playing solo defense and watching their base then how does this change? Their inside spawn is barely if at all visible from the SSG hallway, and in addition, you don&#039;t know if their SG spawn will be used in a way they&#039;ll be running around their base, going down the hallway, or coming straight out like most anticipate. Obviously you&#039;ll see the two SSG spawns right away since anyone spawning on CG will drop to the SSG that&#039;s right in front of them, and you will likely notice them spawning on the pistol spawns. I doubt you will see the inside SG spawns. There will still be an element of uncertainty.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5537, 546, 17, 1322767136, 35, 5537, 'Re: Map Suggestions', 'Whiteboy567', 'whiteboy567@msn.com', '99.240.95.251', 1, 1322767505, 'Whiteboy567', 'PROCTF 19 and 21 - 19 is basically a shrunken down version of zdctf19 which makes it look ideal for 3vs3s, while 21 is damn interesting with multiple ways in and out of the base. Some people hate the middle for 21 but I dig it.<br /><br />Zdctf24 - Bring back crawlspace!!! This map is the definition of grind. I just love navigating around in this map so much that the slow pace doesn&#039;t bother me at all.<br /><br />Edit:I&#039;m also part of the zdctf07 fanclub', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7251, 712, 22, 1344921114, 267, 7251, 'Re: WEEK 7 - THIRTY417: Buntaluffigus (AUG 13 - AUG 19) - Discussion and Results', 'RecKle$$_', 'Aesthesic@hotmail.com', '189.135.194.39', 1, 0, '', 'Worst map ever', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7511, 716, 17, 1346889955, 2311, 7511, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'FrankTheTank', 'frankdt1234@gmail.com', '65.78.62.158', 1, 0, '', 'Mionic - You&#039;re map is a little confusing at first, but after a few minutes of running around i got used to it and looks pretty good for a 4 v 4.<br /><br />Decay - The overall layout is pretty simple. The only major thing is that your lifts have missing textures on each side of the map.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7545, 716, 17, 1347461053, 2313, 7545, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'nub_hat', 'mikaelhhome@yahoo.dk', '80.164.151.134', 1, 0, '', 'I made the tele route in my first map slightly longer and put a hurt floor around the teleports.<br />Thought the route looked too easy before hopefully it is better now.<br />Second map is unchanged.<br />http://www.mediafire.com/?vwge04qe60s09o1<br />Should be final unless I messed something up completely', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8715, 828, 28, 1363290793, 15, 8715, 'Re: Unlagged.', 'ItalianStallion', 'stalliondoom@gmail.com', '216.246.246.103', 1, 0, '', 'Yes', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7891, 762, 25, 1354987049, 163, 7891, 'Re: Nawt Signing Up?', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.129.84', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=762.msg7889#msg7889 date=1354969832]<br />I&#039;m in a rush and didn&#039;t have time to read your whole post, but I did get to the point where you immediately misconceived my comments about people like Jenova and Chewy not being important. In terms of league history and how things DID happen, yes they are important. However, if Jenova hadn&#039;t signed up those two seasons there would&#039;ve been two other masterbowl winning captains. If Chewy didn&#039;t play in the seasons he did, somebody else would&#039;ve had his roster spot.<br /><br />Historically, as far as played games and legacy go, these players are definitely important. As far as the league not being able to exist without them for each of their respective seasons, I&#039;ll contend that notion.<br /><br />Will check out your post more later<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Before you do, I should clarify that the comments in regards to Jenova and Chewy aren&#039;t meant to imply that the league wouldn&#039;t exist without them. Certainly they are important historically and are influential players because of their abilities and what they&#039;ve accomplished making them models for new players to mold their games around. But with our without them, the league would have still continued. <br /><br />But given that they committed the time time and effort they did for the seasons they played in (albeit Jenova actually only played in three seasons), their time, like any other player was important. I simply mentioned them as significant players based on what they&#039;ve accomplished in the IDL and the fact that new players look to build their skill up to that level of play.<br /><br />But we agree, there is no contention that they are important in terms of the league&#039;s legacy given their accomplishments.<br /><br />And before you continue on, I want to make it clear that we both want the same thing here: what&#039;s best for the league. Sure, we can have disagreements about how to make it the best product it could possibly be but at the end of the day, the IDL being successful and prosperous is something we both want. ', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8765, 851, 29, 1364093473, 214, 8765, 'Re: March ''13 Open Tournament Matches and Results', 'RustInPeace', 'ru5tk1ng@yahoo.com', '98.197.197.44', 1, 0, '', 'Matches updated. LB and Fluff play for the finals. Dragon and I play for 3rd place. Let&#039;s get this concluded before the end of the month ;)', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6507, 622, 17, 1331528355, 16, 6507, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'Tai', 'Tai223236@yahoo.com', '98.216.91.67', 1, 0, '', 'Someone really suggested IDL should be moved to Skulltag.<br /><br />And it was Legion of all people. It&#039;s obvious just by the way he plays that he&#039;d prefer Skulltag. <br /><br />Hilarious. I didn&#039;t even know it was scientifically proven that ST&#039;s SSG is weaker than ZD&#039;s, but it was always obvious to me that it was.<br /><br />Stupid nublet. ', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5539, 546, 17, 1322768730, 35, 5539, 'Re: Map Suggestions', 'Whiteboy567', 'whiteboy567@msn.com', '99.240.95.251', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=546.msg5538#msg5538 date=1322768412]<br />[quote author=Whiteboy567 link=topic=546.msg5537#msg5537 date=1322767136]Zdctf24 - Bring back crawlspace!!! This map is the definition of grind. I just love navigating around in this map so much that the slow pace doesn&#039;t bother me at all.<br /><br />Edit:I&#039;m also part of the zdctf07 fanclub<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Yeah!&nbsp; Let&#039;s do ZDCTF24, ZDCTF07, ZDCTF09 and ODACTF02, for the first 4 weeks of the season so we never have to discuss maps again after everyone quits.&nbsp;  ;D<br />[/quote]<br /><br />YEAH!!! On the flipside lets do all the idiot maps for your sake! You know Map 01, 04,14,18 and 31! Lineup of your favourites right there, you groggy, filipino, jungle fucking, inbred piece of panda bear shit. ;D ;D ;D ;D', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(9443, 276, 26, 1382972795, 0, 9443, 'Re: MasterBowl Winners', 'Zakken', '', '177.42.5.63', 1, 0, '', 'Hey, Reck didn&#039;t even play, wtf. Bolded out names are meant for those who actually took part in the MB game.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5587, 548, 18, 1323275014, 213, 5590, 'Team Names', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 1323313808, 'MassVC', 'By official decree of this season&#039;s renegade (no relation) IDL board, captains will get to pick their own team names this season!<br /><br />In order for this to be possible, there must be a few ground rules:<br /><br />1.&nbsp; All names must be board-approved.&nbsp; Captains submit* some number of names they might want for their teams, the board vetoes any names they feel like vetoing, and the captains get to choose from what remains.&nbsp; We are going to censor names based on a.) ridiculously offensive language, including b.) overt sexual references, c.) unpronounceability, d.) personal attacks, and e.) unforgivable lameness.&nbsp; We are not going to provide a list of words and body parts you cannot say, so use your best judgment.&nbsp; All currently existing names are pre-approved, and many captains have indicated that they will continue using their same name.<br /><br />2.&nbsp; If a captain does not get a name certified by such-and-such a deadline, he will be forced to use his team&#039;s original name until next season.<br /><br />3.&nbsp; Because we would like to see some type of (real) cohesion of teams over seasons, captains must use their team name for at least two seasons (if they captain next season at all).&nbsp; So, choose your names wisely, because you will be stuck with them for a year.&nbsp; We hope, however, that captains will use their team names for much longer than this.<br /><br />4.&nbsp; Captains are remaining on or inheriting pre-existing teams, so their conferences and divisions do not change because of this rule.&nbsp; We are just calling our teams something else for fun.<br /><br />5.&nbsp; If another captain comes up with a name and then quits, and you want to use their name, you need their permission.&nbsp; Hopefully you will be clever enough and have enough confidence to come up with your own name.&nbsp; Plus, it complicates stats.<br /><br />The procedure:<br /><br />Because of (3), there is no need to wait until after the draft to choose your name.&nbsp; (So Canadian Bacon will only work if you get stall both seasons.)&nbsp; In fact, we would like to do it by the time captains are announced.<br /><br />I would like for all captains (who are interested in naming their teams) to submit no more than 5 names by some time Saturday so that we can approve/deny them, get back to you, and announce captains with your team names some time Sunday.&nbsp; Try to submit them earlier than 2 AM on Sunday when the board isn&#039;t on.<br /><br />This isn&#039;t like a huge deal.&nbsp; If it turns out we can&#039;t get it figured out until Tuesday, then fine, but I&#039;d rather see it done sooner than later.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5599, 550, 17, 1323458509, 10, 5599, 'Re: IDL Maps', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=nostar link=topic=550.msg5598#msg5598 date=1323453810]In 2009 Ralph made the IDL wad. Before that IDL used the ZDCTF packs 1-3[/quote]<br /><br />Actually, by season 2 the league was already using different wads in addition to ZDCTF. These include: <br />-Oda06 and Oda02 in season 2<br />-32in24 map17, 13, 31 and Oda02 in season 3<br />-Oda01 and Oda04, Oda02 masterbowl, 32in24-7 map13 in season 4', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5603, 552, 17, 1323492558, 1328, 5603, 'Re: Montreal Server', 'Mobius', 'hustler_0ne@hotmail.com', '67.86.23.10', 1, 0, '', '[quote]tell me why! If you don&#039;t like it: tell me why![/quote]<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mWW6kRITEY', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5606, 552, 17, 1323492890, 89, 5606, 'Re: Montreal Server', 'Solar_Flare', 'cdstrangle@gmail.com', '69.154.178.193', 1, 0, '', 'I don&#039;t mind it, I think it&#039;s a pretty good alternate server.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5609, 552, 17, 1323494470, 163, 5609, 'Re: Montreal Server', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.18.42.194', 1, 0, '', 'I don&#039;t care for them too much. They seem to be stable but there&#039;s an obvious bias from my standpoint. As an alternative, you certainly could do worse though. ', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5611, 552, 17, 1323500823, 15, 5611, 'Re: Montreal Server', 'ItalianStallion', 'stalliondoom@gmail.com', '174.88.86.24', 1, 0, '', 'They&#039;re absolutely awful.. ;)', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5538, 546, 17, 1322768412, 0, 5538, 'Re: Map Suggestions', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.9.95', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Whiteboy567 link=topic=546.msg5537#msg5537 date=1322767136]Zdctf24 - Bring back crawlspace!!! This map is the definition of grind. I just love navigating around in this map so much that the slow pace doesn&#039;t bother me at all.<br /><br />Edit:I&#039;m also part of the zdctf07 fanclub<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Yeah!&nbsp; Let&#039;s do ZDCTF24, ZDCTF07, ZDCTF09 and ODACTF02, for the first 4 weeks of the season so we never have to discuss maps again after everyone quits.&nbsp;  ;D', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6974, 675, 22, 1339389252, 8, 6998, 'Draft Picking Order', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 1339719779, 'HumanBones', 'Captains get to choose their own spots in the first round of the draft. Subsequent round picks are determined by the snake format. Once the first captain picks his draft spot, the second captain picks any spot but the one chosen by the first, and so on, until all draft spots are filled. <br /><br />The order by which captains will choose their draft spots is: [s]Tai[/s], [s]HumanBones[/s], [s]Doomguy666[/s], [s]Ralphis[/s], [s]ItalianStallion[/s], [s]SoulSucka[/s], [s]ThatsJustPrime, Hatred[/s]<br /><br />The IDL Summer 2012 Draft Picking Order: <br /><br />[b]CAPTAINS[/b]<br />1 CP&nbsp; Ralphis&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;  Super Chargers<br />2 CP&nbsp; SoulSucka&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Berserker Packers&nbsp; <br />3 CP&nbsp; ThatsJustPrime&nbsp; Brokeback Cowboys<br />4 CP&nbsp; HumanBones&nbsp; &nbsp;  Sexual Panthers<br />5 CP&nbsp; Tai&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Killing Browns<br />6 CP&nbsp; ItalianStallion&nbsp; &nbsp; We&#039;re All Doomed <br />7 CP&nbsp; Doomguy666&nbsp; &nbsp;  Mass Destruction <br />8 CP&nbsp; Hatred&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;  Super Shotgun Spurs', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7252, 712, 22, 1344937867, 15, 7252, 'Re: WEEK 7 - THIRTY417: Buntaluffigus (AUG 13 - AUG 19) - Discussion and Results', 'ItalianStallion', 'stalliondoom@gmail.com', '72.53.140.59', 1, 0, '', '7-0', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7546, 716, 17, 1347467246, 2174, 7546, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'Decay`', 'systemdecay@hotmail.ca', '99.254.81.77', 1, 0, '', 'Why is it called the semi-annual mapping contest when it only happens annually???????????????', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7976, 764, 25, 1355908935, 4, 7976, 'Re: Players, speculation thread and shit', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '50.88.51.175', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=ThatsJustPrime link=topic=764.msg7906#msg7906 date=1355256458]<br />I&#039;ll post some predictions once caps are announced<br />[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=764.msg7908#msg7908 date=1355261287]<br />[quote author=ThatsJustPrime link=topic=764.msg7906#msg7906 date=1355256458]<br />I&#039;ll post some predictions once caps are announced<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Same<br />[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=Soul Sucka link=topic=764.msg7912#msg7912 date=1355272236]<br />[quote author=ThatsJustPrime link=topic=764.msg7906#msg7906 date=1355256458]<br />I&#039;ll post some predictions once caps are announced<br />[/quote]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Well, where are they??', 'xx', 1);
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	(5540, 546, 17, 1322768858, 35, 5540, 'Re: Map Suggestions', 'Whiteboy567', 'whiteboy567@msn.com', '99.240.95.251', 1, 1322769086, 'Whiteboy567', 'Oh yeah lets not forget your contest map, lets throw that masterpiece in IDL too.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6508, 631, 17, 1331528739, 4, 6508, 'Re: Regarding DDOS stuff', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '68.83.192.117', 1, 0, '', '&quot;Shit I lost! I must have been DDoS&#039;d!!! That&#039;s the [b]only[/b] legitimate explanation. Right guys??&quot;', 'xx', 1);
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	(6995, 136, 1, 1339695521, 75, 6995, 'Re: It''s coming', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'a quick recap for our younger players.<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUnVLELDzzI', 'xx', 1);
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	(6037, 591, 20, 1327352362, 214, 6037, 'Re: since we''re frivolously making new topics', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.28.218', 1, 0, '', 'This week, all games were scheduled after Tuesday night, so the deadline for demo submission should have been Tuesday night.&nbsp; Needless to say, there were technical difficulties with stats and the deadline had to be moved forward.&nbsp; So, when was it forward to?<br /><br />So here&#039;s the timeline as I understand it, taking that stature into effect:<br /><br />Thursday, jan 12 - Week 2 game was played<br />Wednesday, jan 18 - demo cutoff date mentioned by rules #1<br />Saturday, jan 21 - Week 3 game was played, demo cutoff date mentioned by rules #2<br /><br />It&#039;s true there were statistical issues that prevented the demo system from functioning properly. They were resolved by Ladna on Saturday, Jan 14th. Please observe this topic as evidence: http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=584.0<br /><br />If these were special circumstances, which the commissioner considered them to be, then the commissioner may make special amendments to the rules, which the commissioner did. He simply made the mistake of not informing me of his decision until the day after the game.<br /><br />To be honest, I didn&#039;t think anyone should be penalized for not submitting demos in a timely fashion for the first two weeks. The site wasn&#039;t completely done and even when it was, stats took forever to get done. So arguing about who should or shouldn&#039;t get infractions for not uploading demos in time is stupid. If a player doesn&#039;t have one uploaded, his fault - not ours. The point, for me, is that Mass knew he didn&#039;t have a demo to begin with. Any player who hasn&#039;t submitted a demo should be penalized. Those who skip the penalty should be further penalized.<br /><br />PBH&#039;s penalty is the only one mentionable for not getting their Week 1 demos in on time (ie. uploaded before gametime due to the Wednesday of Week 3 deadline being waived because of the website ordeal) was served. This will help shed some light on things: http://pastebin.com/VSjh8hNx<br /><br />Hopefully the log above will clear up any further confusion and now things return to business as usual.<br /><br />Bones shouldn&#039;t have to tell someone 14 times they have a penalty, and then watch that game to make sure they serve it. I think most people would upload their demo right after the match if we were given the option to.<br /><br />Additionally there should be a rule about not serving a penalty, like:<br /><br />- miss 1 penalty: sit out a round<br />- miss 2 penalties: sit out a game<br />- miss 3 penalties: suspended for the rest of the season and postseason (if applicable)<br /><br />It&#039;s a shame to see something like this from a board member, especially when there is no apology either. <br /><br />One thing I find troubling is that you&#039;re all demanding that Mass apologize to you for some grand indiscretion. The continued nonsense on how the board is unfairly duping the league are getting old. You guys are fucking ruthless. <br /><br />Confusion? Misunderstanding? Give me a break. The biggest issue I have with all of this is that demos were a huge problem last season and were supposed to not be a problem at all this season. To be honest, if Bones had done this, this thread would have 6 pages by now instead of just one.<br /><br />Well I don&#039;t wanna write an essay like Jamie here, but all I gotta say is that if you don&#039;t even have a demo to upload in the first place, that makes it more of a &quot;true&quot; infraction than anyone else&#039;s.<br /><br />It took me two hours out of my day to explain to Xenaero through personalized discussion what was going on. I&#039;d just like to remind you that the reason players were given extensions (from what I understand) is because of website problems.<br /><br />For the record, I am not sorry for anything that has happened. I certainly am guilty of not paying attention to things happening in #idlb without a highlight.I disagree with the Commissioner&#039;s decision to let you off easy, but that is his prerogative.<br /><br /><br />I guess I don&#039;t know what to say anymore.<br /><br />COOL STORY BRO<br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(5575, 536, 20, 1322970405, 0, 5575, 'Re: Maps for this season', 'Fastidious', '', '75.4.132.164', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=nostar link=topic=536.msg5557#msg5557 date=1322839227]Most of the maps I enjoy are maps where the defense gets to move around a lot. I like thinking about doom instead of just standing in the same 3-4 places and shooting. I know, my camper reputation is being tarnished but it&#039;s true. I don&#039;t like stand and shoot maps.[/quote]<br /><br />No, no, I think your camper reputation is well earned.&nbsp; You just like multiple corners to move between so the attackers can never know where to expect you.&nbsp;  ;D', 'xx', 1);
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	(6035, 592, 20, 1327351765, 216, 6035, 'Re: Week 4 (JAN 23 - JAN 29) : IDLCONTEST20 (MAP19) - Discussion and Results', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '130.63.215.164', 1, 0, '', '[b]Super Chargers vs Philanthropic Blowhards[/b]<br /><br />With Pbh never having any quality practicing time recently because of the absence of dr noob, the rest of their season seems pretty bleak. To make things worse, this is a map that SUC should really excel on (at least IMO). PBH will have a tough time playing this week, and SUC will win quickly.<br /><br />SUC 2-0. <br /><br />[b]Brokeback Cowboys vs Ricochet Rockets[/b]<br /><br /> ??? ::) ???&nbsp; ;)<br /><br />[b]Contraband vs The Cult of Bestism[/b]<br /><br />I think this match comes down to who will be the better of Devastation/ Xray in mid. They are both very fraggy players, and they both will try to control the sphere to the best of their abilities. This match will be very close, and could go either way. I will give the match to TCB, with them winning their first game of the season.<br /><br />TCB 2-1<br /><br />[b]Plasmadicks United vs Killingbrowns[/b]<br /><br />As hate already stated PDU NEEDS a win. If they go 0-4, it will be hard for them to make the playoffs. PDU has the potential to win this game, but they don&#039;t seem to be practicing much at all. This is one of those new maps that hasn&#039;t been played much at all, so if PDU doesn&#039;t practice and devise a strategy, they are almost guaranteed a loss. KGB seemed very strong last week with blair on D and Tai on mid, and I expect to see a similar strategy this week. If i remember correctly, when playtesting this map during the map contest, blair LOVED this map, and played it fairly well. It&#039;ll be tough for PDU to pull out a win here. I&#039;ll give it to KGB in 2 rounds.&nbsp;  <br /><br />KGB 2-0<br /><br />[b]We&#039;re All Doomed vs Mass Destruction[/b]<br /><br />MAD has pulled out a couple of surprising victories thus far this season, but I don&#039;t think they have it in them to beat WAD. However, I do think this match will be fairly exciting and fun to watch. I predict WAD beating MAD with relative ease.<br /><br />WAD 2-0<br /><br />[b]Fnordy Niners vs Super Shotgun Spurs [/b]<br /><br />This is the match of first pick vs second pick. Does whiteboy have it in him to hero KNF to victory? Only time will tell. Look forward to SGS clogging up the mid and controlling the sphere with relative ease. SGS will continue to cruise to their perfect 9-0 season.<br /><br />SGS 2-0', 'xx', 1);
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	(5541, 544, 17, 1322775552, 0, 5541, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.9.95', 1, 0, '', 'I think this thread has shown a few things:<br /><br />1.&nbsp; Guys who aren&#039;t playing have a say if they post on the forums (Chow has 1.5? seasons played thus far).&nbsp; Hope we see him play this season however (Chow you have until Dec. 3 to confirm, man up)!<br /><br />2.&nbsp; This is probably as close to democracy as the IDL gets in this thread.&nbsp; Sadly most players will not post in this discussion due to lack of interest, time, etc just like real democracy.<br /><br />IDL Board does play politics, no surprise there.&nbsp; It is a political position.&nbsp; By engaging in this discussion everyone is also playing politics.&nbsp; This is probably one of the better boards so far and definitely better than when we just had Ralphis alone deciding everything.&nbsp; Not that Ralphis wasn&#039;t good but there were definitely some slip ups or delays that would probably be impossible to occur now with a board type setup.<br /><br />My understanding is Mikehail has resigned from the board (not sure if this was made public) and Bones is looking for a replacement.&nbsp; Why doesn&#039;t someone like Jenova or Chow step in for him?<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=544.msg5499#msg5499 date=1322682155]not one single person has suggested one single map to be included.&nbsp; Not Fastidious[/quote]<br /><br />What?&nbsp; I&#039;ve been suggesting SmartCTF for probably over a year now.&nbsp; I also posted many thoughts on specific maps and even a thread on general map types and my preferences.&nbsp; I never came out with a specific &quot;HEY LOOK AT THIS MAP!&quot; but I made plenty of suggestions and thoughts towards maps.&nbsp; I even entered a fucking map in the contest that you jerks wouldn&#039;t even play test it once seriously.&nbsp;  :&#039;(&nbsp; You are obviously ignoring reality here.<br /><br />[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=544.msg5513#msg5513 date=1322695101]<br />[b]2)[/b] You preach about transparency but, aside from posting some rules, you guys are no different from what we were EXCEPT for the fact that we would straight up tell people that we were making the decisions and that&#039;s the way it was. You are offering a false &quot;participatory&quot; community. You are running your mouth about how nobody provided suggestions of what maps to add hot on the heels of preaching to others about how all of your discussion goes through the forums.[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m quoting in whole because I totally agree.&nbsp; Lots of people posted various thoughts but I&#039;m not sure any of it was actually taken into account when voting on maps.<br /><br />[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=544.msg5513#msg5513 date=1322695101][b]3)[/b] [i]Who are you to represent the players anyway[/i]? Remember, you&#039;re the guy accusing my leadership of not being transparent.[/quote]<br /><br />I think the whole #idlb thing is a joke.&nbsp; I&#039;ve never go in there but I understand there are now 10 or so people who hang out in there.&nbsp; Why not just suck it up and do discussions in #idl.&nbsp; You guys already admit to arguing for hours, it&#039;s possible the added people in #idl might actually speed things up.&nbsp; I&#039;ve never been a fan of secrecy or elites only discussions.&nbsp; Excluding people is not what the IDL was built on.<br /><br />[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=544.msg5513#msg5513 date=1322695101]-You play two seasons back as &quot;MassVC&quot; and become the board leader and start trying to push radical changes on a league and system that has, for the most part, worked just fine for half a decade.[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;ve been a critic of Ralph and the IDL for a long time and I frequently want more changes.&nbsp; I do agree IDL is working good but being stagnant is not a property of the IDL either.&nbsp; The IDL has always had change.&nbsp; I don&#039;t see any changes this season as drastically radical compared to previously.&nbsp; I&#039;d actually argue some seasons have had bigger changes.<br /><br />[quote author=nostar link=topic=544.msg5514#msg5514 date=1322695919]There probably have been &quot;shady deals&quot;. I probably have been a part of some. But then again I have only been on the board for 3 months. Before that I was just a player/captain trying to make the league better. And I did. I&#039;m glad you&#039;ve taken up the cause.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />There have been some but most were in the past and probably detailed on DE forums.&nbsp; Part of it was when Ralphis was alone he couldn&#039;t cover everything as much as more people can now on the board.&nbsp; Also one person is a lot more fallible than a group generally.&nbsp; I can still remember two specific examples that I doubt would happen now with a board (I&#039;ll post if anyone really cares).&nbsp; I could probably dig up a few more in my old IRC logs but I&#039;m not really a fan of gotcha! moments.&nbsp; I&#039;ve long since stopped logging IRC.<br /><br />[quote author=Gilgamesh link=topic=544.msg5515#msg5515 date=1322697204]<br />The issue is when the board is making decisions that the majority of the community is REALLY not happy with, and the board just blows off those opinions because of stubbornness or whatever the reason may be.[/quote]<br /><br />A big part of it is the board operates in secrecy and doesn&#039;t try to get the public involved.&nbsp; Basically they decide in secret then announce the decisions, then the public says, &quot;WTF?!?!&quot;, then the board says &quot;too late!&quot;.&nbsp; That has been happening season after season and it&#039;s pretty dumb.<br /><br />[quote author=Gilgamesh link=topic=544.msg5515#msg5515 date=1322697204]If NOBODY wants to play certain maps, just throw them out before you make a wad that is going to last 1-2 seasons.&nbsp; The board should be reflecting on the opinions/wants of the player base instead of pushing only their own views.[/quote]<br /><br />I wish we had map stats off TT to see what people play in priv (for 3v3, 4v4, etc).&nbsp; Then we could see real popularity of maps not just opinions.&nbsp; There have been some basically unplayed maps in the wad across multiple seasons now.&nbsp; I know priv isn&#039;t IDL but it would show what players actually like to play.&nbsp; There is some merit to a balanced IDL schedule but I much prefer Quake style where teams pick what maps they use.&nbsp; It&#039;s hard for players/teams to bitch if they can pick maps they play on and you&#039;d see more of the wad used.&nbsp; Why even fucking include 32 maps if the IDL season doesn&#039;t even use a 1/3 of them?<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=544.msg5516#msg5516 date=1322705008]<br />- When mikehail brought up my idea of namespacing the Masterbowl maps differently (like &quot;map mb001&quot;), the board voted it down[/quote]<br /><br />This is such an awesome idea Ralphis should just put it in the wad even if the board is against it, haha.<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=544.msg5520#msg5520 date=1322718980]The thing is, I honestly don&#039;t care whether players suggest new maps or not.&nbsp; My point is that, if they don&#039;t suggest new maps, then they have no place to stand and complain about the new maps.&nbsp; And they still haven&#039;t.[/quote]<br /><br />??? Then why the fuck did you say it was your &quot;main point of satisfaction&quot; before?&nbsp; ??? What kind of game are you playing here?&nbsp; ???&nbsp; You are making less and less sense.&nbsp; Are you drunk again?&nbsp; ???<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=544.msg5520#msg5520 date=1322718980]I honestly don&#039;t understand what everybody is crying and peeing about.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Seriously?<br /><br /><br /><br />Since this is a bit off topic I put it at the end.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=544.msg5486#msg5486 date=1322637413]I&#039;ll give credit where credit is due, however, as I remember Fastidious and Mass really trying to pursue just that. The sad thing is, very rarely did they play in 3v3 settings.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I tried to test them as much as possible in 3v3 settings with match demeanor instead of herp derp but it didn&#039;t work well as you know.&nbsp; I still think we could have used more contest maps this season.<br /><br />And god damn Skyrim is like digital crack.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5544, 544, 17, 1322776838, 19, 5544, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 1322776942, 'Xenaero', 'I should be doing coursework right now but I am not.<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=544.msg5541#msg5541 date=1322775552]<br />My understanding is Mikehail has resigned from the board (not sure if this was made public) and Bones is looking for a replacement.&nbsp; Why doesn&#039;t someone like Jenova or Chow step in for him?[/quote]<br /><br />Politics, currently. You answered your own question. There are some that could stonewall the nomination process.<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=544.msg5541#msg5541 date=1322775552]I never came out with a specific &quot;HEY LOOK AT THIS MAP!&quot;[/quote]<br /><br />It&#039;s super helpful if people do this. If the board has to look at 20 wads and filter down from 200 maps, some fan favorites could be missed where there&#039;s no weighted opinion on them to begin with! Sorry your map didn&#039;t get played seriously. Very few maps did. It was a huge blunder we made in organization.<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=544.msg5541#msg5541 date=1322775552]I think the whole #idlb thing is a joke.&nbsp; I&#039;ve never go in there but I understand there are now 10 or so people who hang out in there.&nbsp; Why not just suck it up and do discussions in #idl.&nbsp; You guys already admit to arguing for hours, it&#039;s possible the added people in #idl might actually speed things up.&nbsp; I&#039;ve never been a fan of secrecy or elites only discussions.&nbsp; Excluding people is not what the IDL was built on.[/quote]<br /><br />As if argueing about things in #idl will speed anything along, considering the addition of lets say ~5 more opinions. It&#039;s not exactly secret what goes on in the board channel. Just because you don&#039;t join it does not mean it&#039;s a secret channel.<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=544.msg5541#msg5541 date=1322775552]A big part of it is the board operates in secrecy and doesn&#039;t try to get the public involved.&nbsp; Basically they decide in secret then announce the decisions, then the public says, &quot;WTF?!?!&quot;, then the board says &quot;too late!&quot;.&nbsp; That has been happening season after season and it&#039;s pretty dumb.[/quote]<br /><br />See above. There has also been a significant amount of involvement in multiple matters with board decisions so far in this pre-season, and it&#039;s not over yet.<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=544.msg5541#msg5541 date=1322775552]I wish we had map stats off TT to see what people play in priv (for 3v3, 4v4, etc).&nbsp; Then we could see real popularity of maps not just opinions.&nbsp; There have been some basically unplayed maps in the wad across multiple seasons now.&nbsp; I know priv isn&#039;t IDL but it would show what players actually like to play.&nbsp; There is some merit to a balanced IDL schedule but I much prefer Quake style where teams pick what maps they use.&nbsp; It&#039;s hard for players/teams to bitch if they can pick maps they play on and you&#039;d see more of the wad used.&nbsp; Why even fucking include 32 maps if the IDL season doesn&#039;t even use a 1/3 of them?[/quote]<br /><br />9 + 12 + 1 = 22 out of 32 maps that are selected by the Commissioner for Regular Season, Captains for homefields, and the Masterbowl. In reality, only 4 of the homefield maps get playtime. If my mathematical skills are correct, that is 14 maps. Nearly 1/2 out of the entire map pool selectable. The homefield selection shows that captains do pick maps. While you might prefer a style used in a different game, I much prefer for dissenting voices to have factual information on hand when making arguments. I might have to have MassVC check my mathematics. You could be right!<br /><br />Approach Ladna about the stats thing, it would be interesting to see in a graph!<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=544.msg5541#msg5541 date=1322775552][quote author=Ladna link=topic=544.msg5516#msg5516 date=1322705008]<br />- When mikehail brought up my idea of namespacing the Masterbowl maps differently (like &quot;map mb001&quot;), the board voted it down[/quote]<br /><br />This is such an awesome idea Ralphis should just put it in the wad even if the board is against it, haha.[/quote]<br /><br />You know what&#039;s messed up about this is that I would be really on board with it if it were explained properly by Mr. Hail. He might have had tapeworms that day or something, but the vote was understood as something different than what was said by Ladna here.<br /><br />edit: I missed something<br /><br />[quote]1.&nbsp; Guys who aren&#039;t playing have a say if they post on the forums[/quote]<br /><br />Should they not? I don&#039;t know what you&#039;re implying by stating this.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5543, 546, 17, 1322776075, 19, 5544, 'Re: Map Suggestions', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 1322776991, 'Xenaero', 'I love suggestions regarding new maps, at least it gives an idea of what people like or [b]might be willing to try[/b] (;);););)). Keep them coming. Please keep it civil. Hopefully other board members will acknowledge this thread&#039;s existence and will be around for more than 10 minutes a day so we can make use of time we have left to look at maps more in-depth than we have in the past.<br /><br />If there are players reading this thread and not adding to the list of maps to consider or at least agreeing with some selections already made then you should! It takes very little time.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5545, 544, 17, 1322783092, 209, 5545, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'AlexMax', 'alexmax2742@gmail.com', '70.60.122.135', 1, 0, '', 'For what it&#039;s worth, I compiled map statistics for Skulltag PrivCTF on IDL2011 here:<br /><br />http://www.altdeath.com/fluxbb/viewtopic.php?pid=3028#p3028', 'xx', 1);
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	(5546, 544, 17, 1322783211, 8, 5546, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '173.48.152.83', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=MassVC link=topic=544.msg5520#msg5520 date=1322718980]<br />What does Rust&#039;s thread have to do with anything?&nbsp; Are you suggesting that I didn&#039;t recommend any maps for inclusion or exclusion?&nbsp; That is obviously false.&nbsp; I didn&#039;t do it in that thread, but why should I?&nbsp; Players don&#039;t need to know my opinions; I need to know theirs.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />As a member of the board, and as a representative of the IDL player base, this is a hilarious comment. The administration should always be forthcoming and honest with their opinions. The board is intended to represent the player base. This isn&#039;t possible with that type of attitude. <br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=544.msg5520#msg5520 date=1322718980]<br />I playtested every single map.&nbsp; Several times.<br />[/quote]<br /><br /> ;D<br /><br />Playtesting was non-existent. I said it in an earlier post, but I believe map quality has suffered due to this. That isn&#039;t to say I agree with every complaint; you can&#039;t always get what you want. Nothing is perfect. I&#039;m looking forward to seeing which maps are successful and which aren&#039;t. This backlash should prove to be a nice incentive for the board to put in more effort when it comes to playing the maps in an IDL setting. <br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=544.msg5516#msg5516 date=1322705008]<br />Here are some things admins shouldn&#039;t do:<br /><br />&nbsp; - Pick apart posts as pedantically as possible<br />&nbsp; - Publicly shame anyone who disagrees with them or points out an inconsistency in their actions<br />&nbsp; - Dump on people who help them out<br />&nbsp; - Criticize each other&#039;s good faith efforts<br />&nbsp; - Publicly accuse each other and other helpful IDL players (Fastidious, JKist3, Ladna, Nostar, mikehail) of conspiracy<br />&nbsp; - Refuse to discuss an issue<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I think at times everyone is guilty of these things. This thread was derailed very quickly because of this. Considering my earlier comments, it may sound like I&#039;m doing it right now in this post. I believe there is a clear difference between constructive criticism and the type of criticism you&#039;re talking about. Luckily the board has posted in great depth throughout this thread. I have to say that being a part of previous administrations in various roles, I&#039;m not confident in saying that this administration &quot;puts in more time, works harder, and with more thoughtful deliberation than any administration in the past&quot;. Is this thread really about picking apart the way Ralph and Ladna ran the league? I don&#039;t see anything wrong, anything, with the way the league was run in the past. Our &quot;hard work&quot; has yet to be put to the test. The professional, smart, courteous, and truthful thing to say is the current administration sees some things differently than it&#039;s predecessor. <br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=544.msg5516#msg5516 date=1322705008]<br />&nbsp; - MAP07 opened several IDL seasons<br />&nbsp; - MAP19, MAP27, ODA02, and MAP30 were Masterbowl maps<br /><br />Here&#039;s what really gets me though:<br /><br />&nbsp; - These things were never considered<br />&nbsp; - When mikehail brought up my idea of namespacing the Masterbowl maps differently (like &quot;map mb001&quot;), the board voted it down<br /><br />Those facts prove to me that the current administration just doesn&#039;t give a fuck about IDL&#039;s legacy, and it saddens me.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m just as upset as you about these things. I have to say when it came down to voting, I was very vocal about keeping the wad limited to 32 maps. My belief was that keeping the limit would help the board further weed out maps that aren&#039;t IDL worthy. I never expected to see those maps go, and had I known it was heading in that direction I certainly would have pushed to include more maps. I only wanted to replace a map if there was a better replacement for it. I don&#039;t feel like members of the board shared this philosophy. Regardless, the board should be commended for including this many new maps. Even though the process didn&#039;t go as I had initially hoped it would, they spent a lot of time looking through over 10 wads to try and incorporate new and fresh maps. I will defend their effort to get new maps into the wad until the day mikehail has sex for the first time. You all should too.<br /><br />I also support keeping Masterbowl maps in the wad. I&#039;m not sure why it was voted down, but those maps are iconic and deserve to stay. I started my own tradition here. The previous seasons Masterbowl map will always be Week 1 of the new season. If you vote out the MB map, there goes my tradition you assholes!<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=544.msg5541#msg5541 date=1322775552]<br />I think this thread has shown a few things:<br /><br />1.&nbsp; Guys who aren&#039;t playing have a say if they post on the forums (Chow has 1.5? seasons played thus far).&nbsp; Hope we see him play this season however (Chow you have until Dec. 3 to confirm, man up)!<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I really hope so, I am a huge Chow fan!<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=544.msg5541#msg5541 date=1322775552]<br />My understanding is Mikehail has resigned from the board (not sure if this was made public) and Bones is looking for a replacement.&nbsp; Why doesn&#039;t someone like Jenova or Chow step in for him?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Not bad suggestions at all. I haven&#039;t stated in public that Mike resigned, but it&#039;s true. I&#039;m really looking for someone who is relatively new to the league and can represent those players who have recently joined up to be a part of the fun. <br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=544.msg5541#msg5541 date=1322775552]<br />I think the whole #idlb thing is a joke.&nbsp; I&#039;ve never go in there but I understand there are now 10 or so people who hang out in there.&nbsp; Why not just suck it up and do discussions in #idl.&nbsp; You guys already admit to arguing for hours, it&#039;s possible the added people in #idl might actually speed things up.&nbsp; I&#039;ve never been a fan of secrecy or elites only discussions.&nbsp; Excluding people is not what the IDL was built on.<br /><br /><br />A big part of it is the board operates in secrecy and doesn&#039;t try to get the public involved.&nbsp; Basically they decide in secret then announce the decisions, then the public says, &quot;WTF?!?!&quot;, then the board says &quot;too late!&quot;.&nbsp; That has been happening season after season and it&#039;s pretty dumb.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s about being secret. It&#039;s a well known fact the board can argue about one issue for up to 5 hours. I really have no problem who sees us arguing, but I do have a problem with being interrupted in the middle of discussions. #idl isn&#039;t ALL about the IDL, there are lots of things that people talk about that aren&#039;t related in any way. I find it a lot easier to discuss important things that need to be discussed in another channel specifically for discussing important things with less people. There was some discussion about why I wasn&#039;t letting certain people into the board channel. It had nothing to do with who was joining, it had to do with the amount of people joining. I find it really hard to believe that 5 hour arguments can go any faster with more people involved. But what the hell, it&#039;s really not worth my time to fight about it. Whoever wants to join can join. <br /><br /><br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(5547, 545, 17, 1322804562, 163, 5547, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 0, '', 'Going to respond to your posts in no particular order, Xen. <br /><br />[quote=&quot;Xenaero&quot;]In addition, I would like to pose the following question: What is a left for dead spawn? To me it&#039;s similar to when you get the far hallway spawn in map26 and helplessly watching the runner fly out of your base on the other side, well outside your range of engagement. Some good that SSG does![/quote]<br /><br />That would be correct, expect you do have a chance of at least fragging them through the fence part if they take the lower path. If they take the tunnel path, then you are probably going to get scored on - granted, in order for them to take the tunnel path, they&#039;d have to be your general area at that spawn so they&#039;d only get by if they fragged you.<br /><br />Perhaps you don&#039;t understand the spawn I&#039;m alluding to. The spawn is on the lower side near the exit. In fact, it might be right on top of the exit basically. If somebody frags you, you spawn here, you are left for dead. They will not stop to frag a pistol chaser if they head towards you as you are respawning and if they take the long hallway route or lift, they will most likely get to their flag in that route before you will. In order to get a weapon to realistically frag with (i.e not the pistol), you&#039;d either have to turn around, go back into the base and grab the super shotgun [b]or[/b] run into their base to their long hallway and grab an SSG in their base. By that time, regardless of which weapon you choose to grab, they will have scored.<br /><br />That is a left-for-dead spawn. No action you take in that circumstance can prevent a score. Unless you&#039;ve weakened the considerably and can manage a pistol frag - something that rarely happens and isn&#039;t something I want to bank on for a return. <br /><br />I want to touch on this a little further because it seems you don&#039;t understand what I&#039;m saying at all. You speak in a tone that suggests defenders rarely die, if at all. They should be the ones dying the least yes, but they [b]do[/b] get fragged. Part of being a good defender is recovering once you respawn and either chase the runner down with an SG and frag them or find the time to pick up an SSG and catch them. In any circumstance, the lower exit spawn in map28 [b]does not[/b] give you any option to recover since you&#039;re forced to chase with a pistol and hope the runner makes a crucial mistake by bumping into a wall or changing paths for no reason. <br /><br />[quote=&quot;Xenaero&quot;]So there you go, for that specific criteria, you have 3 well-played, often-picked (maybe not map16 so much) veteran maps with serious pistol spawn to SSG route problems! I anticipate your counter argument. I expect you to post specific theoretical movements defenders would take in each spawn.<br /><br />However, I think a better argument would be chasing without a weapon other than pistol in your &#039;pickup path of persuit&#039; at all! Upon which a few of those listed examples present themselves under that as well.[/quote]<br /><br />I don&#039;t even understand what you&#039;re trying to say here but I&#039;ll take a shot in the dark. You&#039;re suggesting I&#039;d have examples of moves you could make in some of those spawn spots listed in your examples. You are correct, I could list them. But there&#039;s no need to. You clearly didn&#039;t read my post at all as you are only addressing paths to SSGS, not paths that include shotguns or chainguns along the way. Or for that matter, spawn spots with shotguns or chainguns on the way. Chainguns and SG&#039;s are good chasing weapons as well. I&#039;d certainly take them over the pistol!<br />But, for the sake of wanting to see your counter arguments, I will give you more specific examples.<br /><br />[quote=&quot;Xenaero&quot;]You could argue that MAP15 has 4 spawns that fit this criteria, but it will be excluded because there&#039;s no real mid separating team-owned areas.[/quote]<br /><br />No need to argue this one, you did it on your own.<br /><br />[quote=&quot;Xenaero&quot;]MAP16 (1 spawn, near soulsphere)[/quote]<br /><br />You spawn by a rocket launcher I believe. You also are en route to a chaingun on the way, giving you a better chasing weapon. Bad example, moving on. <br /><br />[quote=&quot;Xenaero&quot;]While you don&#039;t spawn on top of a SG in the MAP20 outside spawn, it is directly in front of you[/quote]<br /><br />lol<br /><br />[quote=&quot;Xenaero&quot;]While the most accessible SSG is in the middle in MAP18, you could spend time getting a SSG in the spawn alcoves, which would be backtracking from the 2 hallway spawns.[/quote]<br /><br />Or you could just run into the middle and grab the SSG to cut off the runner if he&#039;s still in your base? If they have middle control set up, you better hope your runner can hold onto their flag for a bit. But either way, the map is generally seen as chaotic as it is. Middle control is rough to set up at times and from the hallway spawns, you still get a shotgun which would give you a decent opportunity if you chase from the stairs. So you wouldn&#039;t necessarily need to grab the SSG in the alcoves. So really, you&#039;re not back-tracking. Another bad example.<br /><br />[quote=&quot;Xenaero&quot;]MAP08 (3 spawns)[/quote]<br /><br />The only time this would be true is if somebody successfully rocket jumped without fragging themselves in the attempt. Most defenders/mids will gameplan to avoid a rocket jump from happening, although they still do happen on occasion. But other than that, you have plenty of time to get the shotgun in the front of the base or just spam rockets to the exit from the SSG spawn area to prevent them from taking that route. If they&#039;re playing by the lift or holding it, you still have the shotgun to work with and if you&#039;re feeling lucky enough, you can grab the SSG quickly and hope you can pick them off in one shot. Either way, given the stalematish aspect of the map, you have time to recover, something you don&#039;t have in map28. Another bad example. <br /><br />[quote=&quot;Xenaero&quot;]MAP17 (4 spawns)[/quote]<br /><br />This is actually a good example and I&#039;m glad you refreshed my memory on this one. The only choice you have is to haul ass to their base and either take their flag or get their SSG and hope for a lucky return. But that&#039;s usually why most teams play 2d here to not be caught in that situation as often. Granted, you do spawn by a shotgun one of the spawns. You also spawn by the rocket launcher and can spam them to prevent them from exiting the base. This gives either your other defender or O a chance to catch them. Nonetheless, it is fairly comparable to 28, not exactly the same though. So I wouldn&#039;t say it&#039;s a bad example but it&#039;s not a great one either. <br /><br />Overall, I probably wouldn&#039;t be arguing this at all had the spawn system never been broken (ironically enough). I wouldn&#039;t know any different. Just like I don&#039;t know any different in map17. But I do know different in map28 and it plays fine as it is. There&#039;s no reason to adjust it, it&#039;s been proven to work. And since the IDL is all about the communities opinion (as they&#039;ve suggested countless times and have used as sole arguments alone for other IDL issues), clearly people want the original 2-spawn system in place. So why fix something that, while actually broken, seems to work? That was an odd sentence, but sorry, there was no other way to say it! <br /><br />[quote=&quot;Xenaero&quot;]<br />Did I mention I did? If you want to bring this into play, I would figure after Turska demolished you in Week 2 of last season that you would at least recognize the dangers defense face no matter the spawn system on a map like that where spawns are wide and vulnerably placed. Your arguments to me are very poorly written and contrived. I could additionally go through all the maps and give you scenarios where spawns with weapons can work against you due to their position in the map, but that would be a lot of conjecture.[/quote]<br /><br />You&#039;re right. That did happen. But I was referring to the epic 5-round wildcard match between EBL/SUC of last winter season. We managed to do okay defensively, until round 5 at least :(.<br />But I didn&#039;t get rocked because of the spawns, I got rocked because Rus/Turska had an awesome rush going. Mobius actually played really well, too, I let him down that day. If I had to do it again, it wouldn&#039;t be so easy this time around!<br /><br /><br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(5542, 546, 17, 1322775633, 0, 5542, 'Re: Map Suggestions', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.9.95', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Whiteboy567 link=topic=546.msg5539#msg5539 date=1322768730]<br />Map 01, 04,14,18 and 31!<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m not a big fan of 01, 04, 14, or 31 just so you know, but I do love 18.', 'xx', 1);
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	(7730, 741, 17, 1350007675, 19, 7730, 'Re: What''s cooking for the next season?', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Fluffles link=topic=741.msg7726#msg7726 date=1349987269]<br />I think there should be more time for thinking in intermissions, it might sound drastic but possibly a minute intermission, I kept finding that I was being rushed into next match before new tactics for the next round<br />[/quote]<br /><br />This is a really good idea. Especially now that in oda we can teamchat in intermission.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5548, 545, 17, 1322806960, 19, 5548, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 1322811439, 'Xenaero', '[quote author=Hatred link=topic=545.msg5547#msg5547 date=1322804562]<br />That would be correct, expect you do have a chance of at least fragging them through the fence part if they take the lower path. If they take the tunnel path, then you are probably going to get scored on - granted, in order for them to take the tunnel path, they&#039;d have to be your general area at that spawn so they&#039;d only get by if they fragged you.[/quote]<br /><br />Note that under the current system, and bringing that example to map28, if you get the SG spawn and they go the tunnel route, you are fucked no matter how you slice the pie. I do not believe you see this.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=545.msg5547#msg5547 date=1322804562]Perhaps you don&#039;t understand the spawn I&#039;m alluding to. The spawn is on the lower side near the exit. In fact, it might be right on top of the exit basically. If somebody frags you, you spawn here, you are left for dead. They will not stop to frag a pistol chaser if they head towards you as you are respawning and if they take the long hallway route or lift, they will most likely get to their flag in that route before you will. In order to get a weapon to realistically frag with (i.e not the pistol), you&#039;d either have to turn around, go back into the base and grab the super shotgun [b]or[/b] run into their base to their long hallway and grab an SSG in their base. By that time, regardless of which weapon you choose to grab, they will have scored.[/quote]<br /><br />I perfectly know what spawn you&#039;re alluding to. I&#039;d like to say again that if you got the SG spawn and they took the hallway or the gate path, you&#039;re not getting anywhere. You are not getting a frag. You do not pass GO. You do not collect $200. It&#039;s true that you do get a weapon, but you can&#039;t use it to kill the carrier unless he is at 5% health and you get a snap distance shot when following a mile behind him.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=545.msg5547#msg5547 date=1322804562]No action you take in that circumstance can prevent a score.[/quote]<br /><br />True it is disadvantageous, but I would not say it so definitely. Both pistol spawns give you under a second&#039;s travel time to the SSG, it&#039;s really not backtracking as much as you say, and plus if you follow the carrier, you&#039;ll likely be able to pick up an enemy-side SSG and get at least one shot off the carrier before he is able to reach the pedestal. You still pose a very viable threat.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=545.msg5547#msg5547 date=1322804562]They should be the ones dying the least yes, but they [b]do[/b] get fragged. Part of being a good defender is recovering once you respawn and either chase the runner down with an SG and frag them or find the time to pick up an SSG and catch them.[/quote]<br /><br />Well, I&#039;m going to pretend you didn&#039;t patronize me. It&#039;s better that way.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=545.msg5547#msg5547 date=1322804562]I don&#039;t even understand what you&#039;re trying to say here but I&#039;ll take a shot in the dark. You&#039;re suggesting I&#039;d have examples of moves you could make in some of those spawn spots listed in your examples. You are correct, I could list them. But there&#039;s no need to. You clearly didn&#039;t read my post at all as you are only addressing paths to SSGS, not paths that include shotguns or chainguns along the way. Or for that matter, spawn spots with shotguns or chainguns on the way. Chainguns and SG&#039;s are good chasing weapons as well. I&#039;d certainly take them over the pistol![/quote]<br /><br />It&#039;s true, those change things. I would like to point out that I even said that you edited your post to clarify while I was typing shit up and going through maps, so I didn&#039;t see that&#039;s what you actually meant since you wanted to be vague at first. Regardless, there are multiple spawns that still apply to this, and you had boldly claimed that there were no maps that did.<br /><br />I&#039;ll dismiss most of your counters as subjective and honestly rather condescending, so I&#039;d rather not address them.<br /><br />EDIT: [b]ALSO[/b], if you want me to list all the spawns that are disadvantageous in the IDL, I will do it. And you won&#039;t have concocted situational counters for anywhere near all of them.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=545.msg5547#msg5547 date=1322804562]The only time this would be true is if somebody successfully rocket jumped without fragging themselves in the attempt. Most defenders/mids will gameplan to avoid a rocket jump from happening, although they still do happen on occasion. But other than that, you have plenty of time to get the shotgun in the front of the base or just spam rockets to the exit from the SSG spawn area to prevent them from taking that route. If they&#039;re playing by the lift or holding it, you still have the shotgun to work with and if you&#039;re feeling lucky enough, you can grab the SSG quickly and hope you can pick them off in one shot. Either way, given the stalematish aspect of the map, you have time to recover, something you don&#039;t have in map28. Another bad example. [/quote]<br /><br />I can&#039;t tell if you&#039;re trolling me. It&#039;s possible. Haven&#039;t you played 08 enough to know that there are a high number of grabs instantly on return, and plenty, [b]plenty[/b] of occasions of players chasing with the pistol in a ditch effort to return the flag, which I believe is what we were discussing regarding map28&#039;s pistol spawns. In fact, a stark difference is between the two is map28&#039;s pistol spawns are within 10 feet of a SSG, which can be considered the most optimal weapon and of much higher value than spawning in a path where there&#039;s a chaingun to grab. I&#039;d wager you&#039;d waste more time diverting from an optimal path in map08 finding a weapon than you would taking the very short amount of time to grab the SSG and give persuit in map28. This is subjective, due to the varying playstyles Doomers have, and situations possible on a field that cannot be accurately calculated for probability, but I felt it should be mentioned regardless.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=545.msg5547#msg5547 date=1322804562]So why fix something that, while actually broken, seems to work?[/quote]<br /><br />It&#039;s true, I can fully understand people wanting no change at all. Map28 is seen as a unique case of change. I in no way mentioned in any shape or form that there were not good games played on map28 as a result of the spawn system being broken. Don&#039;t trip over that sentence. I saw it as an opportunity to change things up, and see how it played in the competitive arena. I also do not see the reasons put forth by some players defending it as particularly valid, hence my repeated posts on the matter. I have given multiple reasons and factual information on how map flow could or could not be altered. I can&#039;t seem to shake the few priv games I had on it where 75%+ of the players said the change felt negligible or they didn&#039;t notice a difference, while the most...vocal opponents didn&#039;t wait a full minute of gameplay to denounce it. Interestingly, no one who voted for 6-spawns has spoken up in the thread. That&#039;s a curious fact. It appears the idea of changing it has caused a firestorm all its own. I&#039;m still not sure what everyone&#039;s afraid of. I have, in my eyes, effectively rebutted every argument made by opponents of this.<br /><br />It&#039;s pretty impressive how many words I&#039;ve typed up about this simple change. I never thought it&#039;d get so much attention, and in a way it&#039;s made it ever the more interesting and inspired me to push harder for it to see how people throw themselves out there with sometimes very incorrect information and arguments, when no one is aware if it will affect the map for better or worse. Just the fact that there is a change gets everyone upset. Is the fact that I am (I consider myself) a decent defender and have successfully defended on map28 on multiple occasions slipped your arguments as well? If anything, this change would affect how I played the map. Far out.<br /><br />EDIT: Since this will be my last post on the topic as I grow weary of posting about this map, I did some tests and you can grab the SSG faster from the pistol spawns than you can with the original SG spawn. Not only are they both closer as the doomguy flies but the SG wall prevents you from going directly to the SSG when you spawn there. In addition, you have another really good spawn in the hallway in the form of the CG spawn. This part is pure theory based off how quick the player is, but if you die defending and respawn at a pistol spawn, and the enemy carrier comes back the same way he came in, you will have your SSG ready to blow his face off by the time he&#039;s in killing range. You can also very quickly loop around the inside of the cliff and snag the SSG near the hallway and still have a good chance of heading off a carrier going that direction.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5549, 542, 20, 1322814564, 130, 5549, 'Re: W2012 Invite List', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=LordBritish link=topic=542.msg5494#msg5494 date=1322668353]<br />better safe than sorry. i also confirm my invite<br />[/quote]<br /><br />rofl lb has been down this road before (MIKE&#039;D)', 'xx', 1);
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	(5550, 546, 17, 1322815640, 20, 5550, 'Re: Map Suggestions', 'Mantis-X', 'nesman90@aol.com', '24.88.122.148', 1, 0, '', 'TLSXCTF1 Map 01, 02, 05, 07', 'xx', 1);
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	(7253, 713, 17, 1344965968, 8, 7253, 'The Return of... The IDL Board!', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'You heard it here first! The IDL Board has been nonexistent since it more or less disbanded at the end of last season, but today we welcome it back with open arms. The IDL Board is a group of players who are appointed to oversee the activities and structure of the league along with myself. They see to it that any changes that are made are in the best interest of the league and its players. These guys are always putting the league ahead of anything else and I know they are excited to help bring us into the future, so I&#039;m just as excited to introduce them to you.<br /><br />[b]Board Leader[/b]<br />Dew<br /><br />[b]Board Members[/b]<br />Stallion<br />SoulSucka<br />LordBritish<br />Ru5tK1ng<br /><br />You can read all about the history of the board and its members by visiting the [url=http://wiki.intldoomleague.org/index.php?title=Board_of_Directors]wiki page[/url]. <br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(5551, 544, 17, 1322815744, 130, 5552, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 1322817314, 'nostar', 'Ok this has all the potential the take a turn into board infighting. Let&#039;s stop it here and clear up a few things. <br /><br />[b][u]1.) Bones quotes mass and draws a false conclusion[/u][/b]<br /><br />[list]<br />[li]Mass says &quot;I have little reason to post my opinions because I get a vote and my opinions are accounted for.&quot;[/li]<br />[li]Bones takes this to mean that Mass doesn&#039;t want to make his opinions public.[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />Here is the problem. That isn&#039;t at all what Mass means. He&#039;s saying that if players want their voices heard they have to speak up. The reason he doesn&#039;t have to speak up (and I assure he does nonetheless) is because he&#039;s a legislator his opinion is accounted for. When we get to a point where the Commissioner is indicting the head of the board for his attitude while failing to realize what he even said...we need to reevaluate.<br /><br />[u][b]2.) Play testing maps did/didn&#039;t happen,[/b][/u]<br /><br />I will be very very clear. I played every map that went into the wad. I&#039;ve actually played most of them in 3v3 4v4 and 5v5 settings. I&#039;ve been a part of wad testing for years now, I hosted 13 different servers and the board spent hours in those servers both talking about wads and playing them. I will say this. I DID NOT PLAYTEST EVERY MAP IN ALL 13 WADS. The reason that no one has done that is simply an issue of time constraints. What&#039;s more other board members play tested wads too. There were many instances where the entire board (sans mike) and bones were play testing wads together. The claim that there was no play testing is false.<br /><br />[u][b]3.) The board is representative of the player base.[/b][/u]<br /><br />It&#039;s not. It&#039;s representative of who the commissioner thinks will best serve IDL. If the goal was to have different segments of the player base accounted for then that goal has been missed. <br /><br />If anything the metric is &quot;who does stuff for IDL?&quot; Some of us host servers, some of us captain perennially. Some of us run statistics and some of us are just vocal and active players. If I had to guess at the metric that would be my guess.<br /><br />[u][b]4.) IDL board works in secret and issues edicts.[/b][/u]<br /><br />Not really. We have a carousel of people in and out of our little board channel. There have been some less than productive discussions as to whether that is a good thing. The reason we don&#039;t discuss IDL in #idl is not because of the various topics that come up in #idl. In all openness a lot of the discussion in #idlb isn&#039;t even about IDL. Xen rages about his math homework more than anything else in that channel.<br /><br />The reason we don&#039;t hold administrative discussions in #idl is because there is no way to moderate the discussions there without creating a bad environment for the players. If in discussions about the draft I have to +m the whole channel because Jenova won&#039;t stop talking about my adolescent voice...that is a bad environment for our league channel. The level of discussion in #idlb, while unorganized, is a couple of rungs above your average #idl discussions. It also gives some level of cover for when we talk about less than popular topics and when we have to voice sometimes offensive opinions about things to make a point. These are just some of the reasons that we have a separate channel to discuss things in. <br /><br />And further to that point, this board is more transparent than any before it. I&#039;m not arguing that as a positive or negative step but I&#039;m saying that it is the case. You guys can indict the credibility of myself or Mass or Ladna but what you cannot indict is the time and effort we put in making IDL what is it. Similarly we&#039;re not indicting any of you for NOT putting that effort in. <br /><br />The thing is that when you do stuff often times you get your way, if only by being the only game in town. Ladna wants a better site, Ladna writes a site. Nostar wants a centralized server. Nostar buys a centralized server. This is actually the premise of IDL. Ralphis wants a place where he is free to play doom. Ralphis creates IDL. God Bless America.<br /><br />So while there is no conspiracy there are certainly channels through which things get done. If you want to be a part of that get it done. If you want to pout on the sidelines and cry &quot;woe is me&quot; then hang your hat with Jenova and Co..', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8466, 834, 1, 1361387352, 75, 8466, 'Re: Would you play in the IJL?', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Jarin_cz link=topic=834.msg8464#msg8464 date=1361373003]<br />Is this for real ? Also how much you will donate? Just asking if i can quit job and play doom 24/7 for money.<br />[/quote]<br />absolutely 100% no doubt about it real. you can come to work late tomorrow and bitchslap your boss with no remorse.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8448, 782, 17, 1361229329, 158, 8448, 'Re: IDL Site Hosting', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '24.52.247.247', 1, 1361229733, 'Jenova', 'I have a bunch of servers and already host a ton of stuff (not using all of my resources at the moment). I could probably host if you&#039;re willing to zip up / dump the database and point the domain to one of my server&#039;s IP addresses. Of course, as per usual, I&#039;ll be doing this for free, so you don&#039;t have to worry about paying for hosting or whatever.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5564, 542, 20, 1322855836, 20, 5564, 'Re: W2012 Invite List', 'Mantis-X', 'nesman90@aol.com', '24.88.122.148', 1, 0, '', 'Well I took it to after a few ppl asked me.<br /><br />*Fair Warning* I dont think I will practice all that often. My schedule is flexible enough most weeks for the games. I&#039;m not playing well at all but I could get better or stay the same. I should mainly be drafted as a runner, but if the cap thinks I need to mid then we&#039;ll try that. Just giving caps info on what they are looking for so they dont end up wasting a late first round pick and not end up get what they were expecting to.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7780, 754, 18, 1351219106, 2275, 7780, 'Re: IDL Winter 2013', 'Perrondon', 'pmcd_perrondon@hotmail.com', '187.178.79.209', 1, 0, '', '[img]http://images.4chan.org/wsg/src/1350830130545.gif[/img]', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5552, 536, 20, 1322815992, 89, 5552, 'Re: Maps for this season', 'Solar_Flare', 'cdstrangle@gmail.com', '65.71.124.65', 1, 1322816489, 'Solar_Flare', '[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=536.msg5473#msg5473 date=1322599991]<br />Yes, a map where the entire mid is literally a huge uncrossable pit of instadeath lava save for a very very narrow passage (To name one thing) has a chance of being taken seriously, and additionally was included in the official IDL 2012 maplist to be played in priv and the league itself. You might have had a point if you picked some map in idl2012i.wad I could have instantly dismissed, rather than the worst map in all of the mapsets considered for inclusion in the IDL wad. Granted, map27 has a big pit you cannot escape out of, which I frown upon! Other maps might as well but none come to mind immediately and I don&#039;t feel like opening ZDaemon to further illustrate how dumb of an argument you&#039;ve made.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />It&#039;s a pretty valid point considering you didn&#039;t take his map seriously to begin with, let alone you probably have 0 serious playtime on it, which is the complete opposite situation of what me, Hate, Rust and others have proven for BP in priv. It would be different if we dicked around on BP when we saw the mid/ssg placement and just started critiquing the whole thing without giving it serious playtime. In fact, even with fasts&#039; fixes in the mid, you and many other people still didn&#039;t give it a chance, so how can you call my arguement dumb when you&#039;re implying that people should respect the maps when others and you personally disrespected someone elses map by not taking it seriously?<br /><br />Truthfully I would like to see your response to Hate and Rust (if any) since I know the only reason why you quoted me and ignored theirs is because my post is the easiest for you to respond to.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6034, 591, 20, 1327351745, 158, 6036, 'Re: since we''re frivolously making new topics', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '209.183.18.157', 1, 1327352135, 'Jenova', '[quote author=MassVC link=topic=591.msg6032#msg6032 date=1327350751]<br />I left my computer at least half an hour before Bones said &quot;i think this week gametime is a good idea&quot; to Nostar, and restarted hours later without reading the backlogs from #idlb.&nbsp; As Xenaero already said, he certainly didn&#039;t read them either.&nbsp; And if this is now an argument about absenteeism from #idlb, then Xenaero&#039;s really in deep shit.&nbsp; I think &quot;massvc i think this week gametime is a good idea&quot; or &quot;massvc the demo deadline is gametime&quot; or &quot;massvc play your penalty this week&quot; would all have been damning evidence.&nbsp; Since there isn&#039;t a non-doctored log of Bones saying anything like this in a pm or with a highlight or within half an hour of my being active in a channel, I think my point remains.<br /><br />If it&#039;s unclear how this is even evidence for or against [WHAT ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT], it took me two hours out of my day to explain to Xenaero through personalized discussion what was going on so that he could make on-topic arguments against me, and he is one of the smarter players in the league.<br /><br />For the record, I am not sorry for anything that has happened.&nbsp; (Not just on Saturday night, but ever.)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Why would you serve your penalty week 4 if you didn&#039;t submit a demo for week 2? Wouldn&#039;t it only be logical to serve it week 3? To top it off, you don&#039;t even have a demo to submit. Here is a quote from the rules since you idiots think this meaningless text should dictate everything ever:<br /><br />[quote]<br />Each player that plays in a round, no matter the length of time, is required to submit a demo either by Wednesday of the following week, or before their team&#039;s next game, whichever comes first. The penalties for not submitting a demo are as follows:<br /><br />&nbsp; &nbsp; First Infraction: Three minute power play.<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; Second Infraction: Player is suspended for one round of play.<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; Third Infraction: Player is ejected from the league.<br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Where was the three minute power play? Do the rules say you serve it during a game within the next two weeks?<br /><br />I&#039;d just like to remind you that the reason players were given extensions (from what I understand) is because of website problems. Now, the thing is Mass, you don&#039;t meet this criteria because you don&#039;t have a demo to submit. Therefore, you should have served your penalty as soon as possible (week 3).', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6509, 631, 17, 1331529111, 16, 6509, 'Re: Regarding DDOS stuff', 'Tai', 'Tai223236@yahoo.com', '98.216.91.67', 1, 0, '', 'Now that I know there&#039;s no conclusive evidence of anyone DDOSing, I&#039;ll just say right now that the lot of you that even claimed someone was DDOSing you are a bunch of pixies. If you can&#039;t get better connections, fine. Stop blaming others for your problems. Grow the fuck up.<br /><br />You bitches must have forgotten the times where I had to prac sometimes (and play IDL games) with ping of 130 or something on servers where I should have pinged 30 instead. You know why? Cause the household had a shitty connection. AT&amp;T sucked balls. Then we got Comcast, and everything&#039;s great. Funny how that shit happens. Did you even call up your worthless ISPs or is it more fun to say that someone gives a shit about your connection? <br /><br />Your excuses for your shitty connections are hilarious. Suck on your pacifiers more, please. Or you can suck my dick.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6996, 681, 22, 1339696244, 214, 6996, 'Draft Predictions', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.27.251', 1, 0, '', 'A little late than usual, but lets continue the tradition and share our predictions for the upcoming draft. Here is the picking order:<br /><br />[b]CAPTAINS[/b]<br />1 CP&nbsp; Ralphis&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Super Chargers<br />2 CP&nbsp; SoulSucka&nbsp; &nbsp;  Berserker Packers <br />3 CP&nbsp; TJ Prime&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Brokeback Cowboys<br />4 CP&nbsp; HumanBones&nbsp; Sexual Panthers<br />5 CP&nbsp; Tai&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;  Killing Browns<br />6 CP&nbsp; ItalianStallion We&#039;re All Doomed<br />7 CP&nbsp; Doomguy666&nbsp; Mass Destruction<br />8 CP&nbsp; Hatred&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; SuperShotgun Spurs', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7254, 713, 17, 1344969808, 157, 7254, 'Re: The Return of... The IDL Board!', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '71.116.2.206', 1, 0, '', 'these are good board members, definitely better than nostar and his 4 clones', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7570, 731, 22, 1347973217, 4, 7570, 'Re: Season 12 / Summer 2012 - MASTERBOWL XII - Discussion and Results', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '99.32.168.118', 1, 0, '', 'enjoy your MasterBowl Ring Stall<br /><br />[b]Nosturi Summer 2012 Most Valuable Player[/b], you gonna contest that? seriously, are you? no, I didn&#039;t think so because you&#039;re dead stupid wrong if you are and you know it', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8716, 851, 29, 1363292630, 2185, 8716, 'Re: March ''13 Open Tournament Matches and Results', 'Dragon', 'morgan.larsson@live.se', '90.231.165.57', 1, 0, '', 'Dragon 50 - 40 Legion<br /><br />http://i.imgur.com/EMYmvlc.png', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8492, 842, 25, 1361545965, 213, 8492, 'Week 7 - ZDCTF03: Exophase (FEB 18 - FEB 24) - Discussion and Results', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', 'WHO CARES', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8766, 827, 17, 1364093542, 216, 8766, 'Re: Someone else quits', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '70.26.83.60', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Watermelon link=topic=827.msg8764#msg8764 date=1364092227]<br />[quote author=Watermelon link=topic=827.msg8406#msg8406 date=1360890320]<br />Don&#039;t worry, I will save BSK and come back just in time to lose in the masterbowl to Bones.<br /><br />I am the ace in the hole.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />This will possibly be prophetic tomorrow.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />don&#039;t jinx it!!!!!!!!!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5565, 547, 17, 1322864111, 165, 5565, 'Re: Railguns in CTF', 'TheKillerNacho', 'timothyjsharpe@yahoo.com', '71.207.36.16', 1, 1322864390, 'TheKillerNacho', 'I&#039;d prefer having the shotgun available than the railgun. The only weapon I&#039;d say is pretty bad and could be replaced is the Chainsaw, but I&#039;d prefer sticking to classic Doom weapons. Nothing against the Railgun... but at what point do we stop playing Doom 2 CTF and start playing something completely different?<br /><br />Its the same problem I have with Skulltag.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6561, 631, 17, 1331844717, 1328, 6561, 'Re: Regarding DDOS stuff', 'Mobius', 'hustler_0ne@hotmail.com', '67.86.23.10', 1, 0, '', 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAiJrKOHLUM', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5671, 559, 20, 1323902226, 213, 5671, 'Re: The Next Super Charger Squad', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '141.218.36.119', 1, 0, '', 'I think he is avoiding the DOOM version of The Replacements.<br />[IMG]http://i51.tinypic.com/2f0bts6.jpg[/img]', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5553, 544, 17, 1322820282, 89, 5553, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Solar_Flare', 'cdstrangle@gmail.com', '65.71.124.65', 1, 0, '', 'After reading the topic thoroughly, I have only a few things to mention and question.<br /><br />First, #idlb isn&#039;t really a public channel in a sense, though its not &quot;invite only&quot; private either. Myself and a few others joined the channel and were requested to leave for a pretty silly reason after a bit of time. So its pretty clear that only certain people are actually welcome or wanted in the channel to begin with.<br /><br />Second, map selection. Sure, change is good, bur I don&#039;t understand why certain maps were taken out. As Ralph previously stated, some underplayed maps stayed and decent maps went for new maps that have questionable playability and enjoyment factors. What surprised me is that map09 stayed despite being vastly disliked and its rarity for being picked in priv (almost never). But what surprised me the most is how many of the contest maps were actually going to be included. The contest wad is different from the other CTF map packs since it was made with IDL in mind, so it would make sense to use more maps from the pack. Instead you have about 4 new maps from the 32in24 series, a new looking tribute, a pub map and a grindy chaotic zdu map. Getting rid of IDL06, 10, 11, 21, 24, 25 and adding about 2 extra maps at the end of the IDL wad while using more maps from the contest wad + other map packs would have produced a better outcome in my mind, because at least this way, we don&#039;t have to sacrifice maps that we already like to play on. <br /><br />But I&#039;m tired, and will probably respond with more later on.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5488, 545, 17, 1322644279, 7, 5553, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '65.214.200.140', 1, 1322823394, 'Ladna', 'I seriously can&#039;t imagine why anyone would want the 6 spawns.&nbsp; That [b]COMPLETELY[/b] changes the map, just because of the 2 new spawns at the short exit.&nbsp; Welcome to Grind Town, capital of the Catatonic State.<br /><br />Edit: also I wish there were an option to not care about the map32 textures.&nbsp; I like the original textures because it&#039;s modern-feeling, but Ralphis&#039; re-texturing (as expected!) looks good too.<br /><br />Edit 2: Watching the NS/R scrim on this map and discovering that the new spawns are fucking retarded ass pistol spawns has made me reconsider.&nbsp; The map is a clusterfuck, 2 spawns or 6, 6 spawns just pisses the defense off when they spawn with no hope of getting any gun whatsoever.&nbsp; You suck balls cab.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5554, 544, 17, 1322830094, 75, 5554, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Solar_Flare link=topic=544.msg5553#msg5553 date=1322820282]<br />First, #idlb isn&#039;t really a public channel in a sense, though its not &quot;invite only&quot; private either. Myself and a few others joined the channel and were requested to leave for a pretty silly reason after a bit of time. So its pretty clear that only certain people are actually welcome or wanted in the channel to begin with.<br />[/quote]<br />yes. a year ago, #idlb was invite only and the only non-board (ex)member there would be ladna for obvious site running reasons. we eased up on that policy greatly, because we believe this semi-transparency is a good thing. the &#039;guests&#039; hanging out with us often provide valuable comments and ideas, or work as a sanity check, although most of the time they just stare at our hours-long arguments in puzzled disbelief.<br /><br />we don&#039;t want just anyone in the board chan. it&#039;s why we aren&#039;t discussing stuff in #idl in the first place. we want only people we believe to be beneficial for the discussion. i don&#039;t remember your case, but most people consider you retarded because of rust hitting you to the head too many times, so i can guess the reasons for asking you to leave. there&#039;s nothing to whine about - you get to stay if all the board members and bones are comfortable with it, hence jenova getting thrown out unceremoniously.<br /><br />we&#039;re NOT separating ourselves for the sake of secrecy. hell, if anyone feels like it, i can upload logs and you can knock yourself out studying months of the idiocy that is #idlb!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6036, 591, 20, 1327351941, 19, 6036, 'Re: since we''re frivolously making new topics', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.116.89', 1, 1327352154, 'Xenaero', 'I guess I don&#039;t know what to say anymore. Someone has to procure a legally proofed document that gives exact words of HumanBones as witnessed by someone in the room as he typed them in IRC for you to even acknowledge that there is no confusion and misunderstanding when you continue to claim there is. That is why it took 2 hours out of your day to explain to me why your argument is so convoluted. It&#039;s clear that you were aware that you had no demo, but your and nostar&#039;s continued arguments over a &#039;misconception&#039; on when the lack demos were to be acted on was definitely cleared up. So you can feign ignorance I guess as long as you want, but it just makes you look bad in the end, and if you as board head cannot even look back at discussions made in your absence then maybe we have a problem. Is any official overseeing any event or organization held to less scrutiny than the common man?<br /><br />I certainly am guilty of not paying attention to things happening in #idlb without a highlight, but I can&#039;t help but say I find it curious the board head of all people would admit to not having a demo and then not following up on the related discussion when you got back before your game to see if you should serve your penalty or upload your demo or postpone either. Instead you took it upon yourself and claim it was the right thing to do given &#039;confusion&#039;, which did not exist. Even if I were not on the board I would ask the commissioner himself for clarification on what is being done so that this exact thing does not happen, and moreover, if I lacked a demo, that my game result would not be overturned, which it would have if this scenario played out in my shoes. Of course, I did not know about the change because my team&#039;s demos were all in order so I had no reason personally to check.<br /><br />I disagree with the Commissioner&#039;s decision to let you off easy, but that is his prerogative. I&#039;m a little ashamed to serve on a board of players under someone with little honor to stand on. Of course you can claim what you will, but I doubt that you forgot about all of the demo rules the league abides by. It&#039;s unfortunate you did not even think to ask, amidst the &#039;confusion&#039; and &#039;miscommunications&#039;. Why didn&#039;t you do that instead of flippantly defending a position so proven to be incorrect?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6510, 631, 17, 1331529804, 38, 6510, 'Re: Regarding DDOS stuff', 'Sabertooth', 'ssj4chazou@hotmail.com', '74.91.64.2', 1, 0, '', 'Lets just hope your mean old daddy doesn&#039;t &quot;pull your plug&quot; anymore.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(7255, 713, 17, 1344969828, 19, 7256, 'Re: The Return of... The IDL Board!', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 1344970364, 'Xenaero', '[quote author=HumanBones link=topic=713.msg7253#msg7253 date=1344965968]<br />today we welcome it back with open arms<br />[/quote]<br /><br />[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tracer03/F07BW.jpg[/img]<br /><br />[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=713.msg7254#msg7254 date=1344969808]<br />these are good board members, definitely better than nostar and his 4 clones<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I didn&#039;t know you thought that low of me. Christ.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6997, 681, 22, 1339700171, 214, 6997, 'Re: Draft Predictions', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.27.251', 1, 1339700687, 'RustInPeace', '[b][u]Pick #1: Ralphis - SUC[/u][/b]<br />Old boy is running out of time and gas. While he made playoffs last season, the latest incarnation of SUC wasn&#039;t as strong as previous ones. Ralph selecting the first spot clearly shows that he intends to pick the best player (in his mind) the draft has to offer. He will probably aim to do what Hatred did last seaon: pick a star player and hope for good players to fall later on. The only difference is that Ralph didn&#039;t throw his previous season.<br /><br />I believe Ralph is going to do what he does best: run and leave D to hang. So he will probably go with a solid defensive player such as [b]X-Ray[/b]. Or Ralph will continue to play the all-around role he has and pick a versatile player like [b]Lordbritish[/b]. But ultimately he will wave the UD flag.<br /><br />[b]#1 Pick: Lordbritish[/b]<br /><br /><br />[b][u]Pick #2: SoulSucka - BSK[/u][/b]<br />The only new Captain of the bunch and a relatively newer player only having played a season and a half (::)). Soul is a pingwhore, so he most likely will not be playing defense and will be stuck to playing Offensive or Mid. He will most likely be looking for a player that will have the firepower that he lacks and he&#039;s definitely going to need someone to keep his flag safe. Soul will be in a similar position as Ralphis and I see him taking taking what Ralph has left over:<br /><br />[b]#2 Pick: X-Ray[/b].<br /><br /><br />[b][u]Pick #3: ThatsJustPrime - BBC[/u][/b]<br />TJ has been pretty damn successful as a Captain having making it to the MasterBowl last season. However, since Mantis is not in the draft this time, I think Prime will be going for someone new to bring his flags home seeing as Prime shines as D or Mid. At this point there are still plenty of players to choose from and picking a versatile player would serve Prime well. He is going to need a player who can be swapped around and be able to perform equally well on any given position.<br /><br />[b]#3 Pick: Sabertooth[/b]<br /><br /><br />[b][u]Pick #4: HumanBoones - SXP[/u][/b]<br />Well damn, bones had a terrible season last time and he&#039;s looking to do the complete opposite (pick players he can practice with). Bones is a damn steel wall on D but is he going to want to play his &#039;typical&#039; position? At this point, all the players capable of playing defense almost as well as him are gone. He is either going to go for a player to bring in flags or a player to destroy the middle. I believe he is going to pull a Hatred and go for a frag power team that he can actually practice with.<br /><br />[b]#4 Pick: BloodStrike[/b]<br /><br /><br />[b][u]Pick #5 Tai - KGB[/u][/b]<br />Tai has transitioned well from ZD to Oda. So we are seeing the same Tai that we have seen from past seasons. As such, we will see the same picking tendencies as well. But I think he will walk away with a steal and land himself a capable player (if he shows up).<br /><br />[b]#5 Pick: Caboose[/b]<br /><br /><br />[b][u]Pick #6 ItalianStallion - WAD[/u][/b]<br />Stall will be able to hold the flag between his legs, so he&#039;s gonna aim for a runner. I think Stall would benefit from a Euro runner since there are quite a few hiding in the list and since euros are a bit more capable thanks to oda&#039;s netcode. But at this point I see him nabbing a steal and raising the R flag.<br /><br />[b]#6 Pick: Collision[/b]<br /><br /><br />[b][u]Pick #7 DoomGuy666 - MAD[/u][/b]<br />DG had a moderately successful season last time having made it to the playoffs. I think DG will learn from his mistakes and pick someone who doesn&#039;t lag and use his pick more selectively. Doomguy is a pretty fraggy player, but defense he is not. He is going to need someone with similar fragging power to keep his flag home while he destroys all runners opposing him. There are still plenty of players to choose from and I see him landing a player who is very capable and very underrated.<br /><br />[b]#7 Pick: Climhazzard[/b]<br /><br /><br />[b][u]Pick #8 Hatred - SGS[/u][/b]<br />HAHA YOU ARE SCREWED FAGGOT<br /><br />[b]#8 Pick: Capo[/b]', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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VALUES 
	(7548, 725, 22, 1347468047, 75, 7548, 'Re: IDL SUMMER 2012 ALLSTAR SELECTION', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 1347468168, 'dew', 'WDC: TOO MANY DICKS ON THE DANCEFLOOR<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wl_uQOABxg', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7571, 731, 22, 1347985899, 0, 7571, 'Re: Season 12 / Summer 2012 - MASTERBOWL XII - Discussion and Results', 'Soul Sucka', '', '177.40.101.32', 1, 0, '', 'Good luck to all players! :)', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5556, 544, 17, 1322838478, 19, 5556, 'Re: Let''s Talk About The Board', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 0, '', 'It&#039;s December 2nd... Another glorious day on the Board. A day on the IDL Board is like a day on the farm. Every meal&#039;s a banquet! Every paycheck a fortune! Every formation a parade! I LOVE THE BOARD!<br /><br />[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/9/9f/Apone.jpg[/img]', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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VALUES 
	(5558, 536, 20, 1322840349, 19, 5558, 'Re: Maps for this season', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 1322840623, 'Xenaero', '[quote author=Solar_Flare link=topic=536.msg5552#msg5552 date=1322815992]<br />Truthfully I would like to see your response to Hate and Rust (if any) since I know the only reason why you quoted me and ignored theirs is because my post is the easiest for you to respond to.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Yours was the most interesting to reply to, not entirely the easiest. Rust defeats himself in his post argumentatively so it needs no replying to. Hatred had a good post and I don&#039;t have much to say to it. Can&#039;t really provide counterpoints to argue in favor of or against the map given that I&#039;ve only played the map ~10 times in a priv setting which has almost always been 4v4. We&#039;ll see how well it plays in the IDL, and that really renders any opinions of the map moot until then. I say go into any of the new, never-played-before maps with an open mind.<br /><br />As for Fast&#039;s map, we did play it, and attempt to play it seriously, like most of the contest maps. It clearly did not work out well for a multitude of reasons. It might be better to talk to Mass about the contest maps, since it was he who selected the winners. I did like some of the changes Fast made to his map but unfortunately we didn&#039;t get games on it, and it still suffered from some of the same design problems that put many players off.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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VALUES 
	(5591, 545, 17, 1323331272, 19, 5591, 'Re: Player Opinion Needed: Map28 Spawns + Map32 Textures', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.113.34', 1, 0, '', 'Thanks everyone for your input in the poll and in the thread! The board greatly appreciates it and will put it to good use in the near future!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6559, 630, 20, 1331777666, 213, 6559, 'Re: IDL WINTER 2012 ALLSTAR SELECTION', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', '[b][color=blue]INTERNATIONAL DOOM CONFERENCE[/color][/b]<br />Hatred<br />Killingblair<br />Nostar<br />Ralphis<br />LordBritish<br /><br />[b][color=red]WORLD DOOM CONFERENCE[/color][/b]<br />HumanBones<br />X-Ray<br />ThatsJustPrime<br />Whiteboy567<br />Gilgamesh', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6511, 631, 17, 1331530289, 16, 6511, 'Re: Regarding DDOS stuff', 'Tai', 'Tai223236@yahoo.com', '98.216.91.67', 1, 1331530591, 'Tai', '[quote author=Sabertooth link=topic=631.msg6510#msg6510 date=1331529804]<br />Lets just hope your mean old daddy doesn&#039;t &quot;pull your plug&quot; anymore.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Yea, maybe that&#039;s what&#039;s really happening to you guys. Yell at your relatives or something, lol...<br /><br /> Or do you really mean some anonymous nublet hacked your interweb? 8)<br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6998, 681, 22, 1339717962, 216, 6998, 'Re: Draft Predictions', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '70.30.59.68', 1, 0, '', 'rust you forgot yourself, nice try', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7549, 725, 22, 1347469265, 19, 7549, 'Re: IDL SUMMER 2012 ALLSTAR SELECTION', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', 'wdc: too many chiefs not enuf injuns', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7572, 716, 17, 1347990264, 2317, 7572, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'Meph', 'cygrade@gmail.com', '82.131.47.33', 1, 0, '', 'http://www.speedyshare.com/SD8qj/idlsubmiss-meph-v2.wad<br /><br />Added map02. Rather complex and the plasma gun is quite strong. Was hoping to get this playtested yesterday but oh well.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7731, 741, 17, 1350059162, 2271, 7731, 'Re: What''s cooking for the next season?', 'Dr. Sean', 'grandpachuck187@gmail.com', '69.62.135.164', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=dew link=topic=741.msg7669#msg7669 date=1348791796]<br />[b]Rocket Splash: Ralph&#039;s Magicarp Experiment Gone Wrong?[/b]<br /><br />Some of you not limited to pure SSG droning may have noticed something weird about the RL: there&#039;s not enough splash damage. It&#039;s been lowered to 85% (I think) and it does indeed help rocketjumping as intended. I fear it may help [i]too much[/i] on map08 [i]and[/i] it carries over certain scandalous artifacts like surviving a suicide bombing run. You should not survive being in the center of an explosion. Anyways, do you think rocketjumps should be actively promoted with a higher partial value (9X%), or do you want the full power death stick back?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Ralphis suggested the 82% splash damage setting after noticing Odamex&#039;s splash damage at 100% seemed more damaging than ZDoom 1.23. I&#039;ve looked at the code countless times and found nothing amiss but I haven&#039;t played enough ZDoom to really know how it should feel.<br /><br />My suggestion is to adjust sv_splashdamage during priv long before the start of the season until you find a suitable value, as sv_splashdamage 1.0 may not feel as you intend either.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7777, 753, 17, 1351214359, 75, 7777, 'Miscellaneous Rule Changes for Season XIII', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 1351214468, 'dew', 'Hand in hand with the conceptual changes outlined in [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=751.0]HumanBones&#039; announcement[/url], we introduce several smaller changes that will hopefully improve your league experience.<br /><br />[size=5][b] Invite list no more[/b][/size]<br /><br />The registration period and the invite list created a high redundancy system with time wasted on multiple deadlines and extra administrative work. To simplify this process, both registration and invitation will be considered the same and no preliminary lists will be issued. You may register yourself with either an open forum post or a message to a board member. The latter includes reluctant agreements to bribery and begging.<br /><br />[size=5][b] Homefields revised[/b][/size]<br /><br />We&#039;re introducing a new homefield selection system, or rather a practical revision of the current one. Teams can select any map from the IDL wad now, excluding the Masterbowl map. If such a map was already picked by another team (the selection order remains), you also get a fallback option - another map that isn&#039;t on anyone&#039;s list. After the regular season ends, you may &quot;inherit&quot; your homefield pick from a team higher in the selection order if they didn&#039;t make the playoffs. You revert to your fallback map otherwise. Trading of picking order spots remains unchanged.<br />[i]This rule was brought to you by a close board majority vote (dew, Soul and Rust v. LB and Stall, uncontested by Bones).[/i]<br /><br />[size=5][b] Splash damage[/b][/size]<br /><br />After some rather chaotic conversations on the issue we decided to rectify the splash damage situation. The current 82% damage rate is going to be raised to 90%. We didn&#039;t revert to full damage, because it was a majority opinion that rocketjumps are awesome.<br /><br />The official rules page should be updated to reflect these provisions, we just need to catch Ladna and tie him to a computer for a while.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8493, 841, 29, 1361548237, 267, 8493, 'Re: Map suggestions thread', 'RecKle$$_', 'Aesthesic@hotmail.com', '201.103.44.97', 1, 0, '', 'exec and brit10 maps NS', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5566, 547, 17, 1322871836, 89, 5566, 'Re: Railguns in CTF', 'Solar_Flare', 'cdstrangle@gmail.com', '69.154.183.35', 1, 1322873127, 'Solar_Flare', 'I think TLSX02 and 05 would be fine without the railgun, but the rest I think do need a railgun. Well, not too sure about 01 though but it may be doable without the railgun as well.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5567, 542, 20, 1322877344, 130, 5567, 'Re: W2012 Invite List', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Whiteboy567 link=topic=542.msg5562#msg5562 date=1322854189]<br />WHAT THE HELL WHY IS CHEWY SCRATCHED OUT NOW?????????<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Because he fears you.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7670, 740, 17, 1348792480, 0, 7670, 'Re: Odamex Discussion', 'Soul Sucka', '', '201.22.33.114', 1, 0, '', 'It feels mostly good for me, after tweaking with my network options (max network bandwidth, interpolation off) + setting cl_prednudge to 1 (which helped me when it came to bumping into other players). Though, like Dewww said, some of the corner shots are indeed bullshit, even from my own end. I agree that some sitrep would be good also.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5559, 547, 17, 1322845232, 163, 5559, 'Railguns in CTF', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 0, '', 'The topic says it all. But I&#039;ll explain the reasoning for asking. I went through some TLSXCTF maps and all of them have railguns. It&#039;s my belief that the mappack has some pretty good maps but in order to get anywhere on adding the maps, we should first determine whether to keep the Railguns in them or remove them. Some of the maps are definitely built with the railgun in mind and play around that. Some aren&#039;t as much and can still be great maps without them.<br /><br />I&#039;ll express my opinion: remove them. It is my belief that CTF, in IDL format, is intended to play under NS DooM settings. DooM settings that include the addition of jump, freelook and countless binds (from chat to movement binds). It is my belief that the IDL is the International [b]DooM[/b] League and not built to mock Quake style of play (which DooM will never be able to adequately do). The rails in DooM generally turn maps into rail frenzy&#039;s where teams just rail each other from one end of the map to the other. Unlike Quake maps, DooM maps are far more wide open and this even further hurts the case for the Railgun to be added in my opinion. But, I should point out that it is [b]my opinion[/b] and that doesn&#039;t necessarily mean it&#039;s right. But I&#039;m pretty confident that I am nonetheless!<br /><br />So that being said, for maps with railguns in them, we face this issue of staying away from them until we get an idea of whether to include or remove them. Until we make progress on that (not to suggest it&#039;s been discussed much because it hasn&#039;t - the discussion really starts here) we probably can&#039;t include those maps. Thoughts??', 'question', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5560, 547, 17, 1322846383, 19, 5560, 'Re: Railguns in CTF', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.120.115', 1, 0, '', 'I think it would be interesting to try it, but it probably wouldn&#039;t be well liked by the playerbase. I wonder how much the tactics on tlsxctf maps change if you replace railguns with a shotgun.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5561, 547, 17, 1322846871, 10, 5561, 'Re: Railguns in CTF', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 0, '', 'Um, it doesn&#039;t matter because it&#039;s impossible to add the railgun and not replace any other weapons in ZDaemon as far as I know', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5562, 542, 20, 1322854189, 35, 5562, 'Re: W2012 Invite List', 'Whiteboy567', 'whiteboy567@msn.com', '99.240.95.251', 1, 0, '', 'WHAT THE HELL WHY IS CHEWY SCRATCHED OUT NOW?????????', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5563, 547, 17, 1322854442, 163, 5563, 'Re: Railguns in CTF', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.7', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=547.msg5561#msg5561 date=1322846871]<br />Um, it doesn&#039;t matter because it&#039;s impossible to add the railgun and not replace any other weapons in ZDaemon as far as I know<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Of course, TLSXCTF removes the shotgun. If the IDL was willing to do as such, you&#039;d probably consider removing chainsaw or something. But another reason to not add railguns, it causes a headache :)', 'xx', 1);
