Wow, maybe this is a real thread after all!<br /><br />[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=528.msg5302#msg5302 date=1320958923]I think that people who don&#039;t currently play in the IDL should have a &quot;say&quot;, in that I openly encourage them to express their opinions. With that said, I think that those who don&#039;t play have less of a voice compared to those that actively play season after season. Players who have played the last 8 seasons and sit for a season should still have a say as well. <br /><br />I don&#039;t personally think that non-players should spend time representing active players on the IDL Board, however that does not mean I think they are incapable of doing it right. My only issue with this is that non-players tend to become relatively more inactive than those who are still on active rosters. The plus side is that they will often have much less conflict of interest.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I pretty much agree with this entire reply.<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=528.msg5204#msg5204 date=1320525328]perhaps he doesn&#039;t play this season, but I don&#039;t see how that makes him a non-player[/quote]<br /><br />Fast, you are right.&nbsp; I used &quot;non-player&quot; as as terminological shortcut.&nbsp; What I meant was &quot;Players Who Aren&#039;t Playing In This (next) Season&quot; or PWAPITS for short.<br /><br />[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=528.msg5287#msg5287 date=1320915045]I would like to echo Beast&#039;s entire post, basically.[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m not sure what Beast said in that post, but I think you both missed the point.&nbsp; I will blow right past your strawman and say that my intention isn&#039;t to deflate your huge inflatable ego and trash your decade of prestigious DOOM endeavors.&nbsp; I think you&#039;re just as brilliant and sensitive as you do...<br /><br />My point is that there just is no logic as to whether Map09 should be included in the wad.&nbsp; All of your brains and experience have nothing to do with it.&nbsp; It&#039;s a brute matter of opinion, and nobody&#039;s opinion carries more weight than anybody else&#039;s, not even yours or Hatred&#039;s, except that Hatred is going to be affected by the outcome of the decision, and you are not.<br /><br />And any faux-reasoning to the tune of, &quot;Map31 shouldn&#039;t be included in the wad because it gives Tai a free ticket to the MB,&quot; or even, &quot;Map31 shouldn&#039;t be included in the wad because it is a stupid grind and it&#039;s stupid,&quot; whether it come from players or PWAPITS, should be trumped with the fact that most players like Map31 and want it in the wad (or, counterfactually, that they don&#039;t and it shouldn&#039;t).&nbsp; In fact, the faux-reasoning here is what seems Jafarish to me.<br /><br />Now let me turn right around and say that I only mean this for issues which are purely matters of opinion, like team-naming or map-inclusion.&nbsp; In a video-game league, pretty much all issues are like this because the only goal is to have fun, and most people know what will be fun for them.&nbsp; It is possible, however, that some issues (such as the draft?) involve more logic and reasoning, where skills like yours and mine can start to come into play.<br /><br />[quote author=Beast link=topic=528.msg5299#msg5299 date=1320950049]Thought I would add, what if the President of the United states and congress said fuck you your not in congress just stfu we know whats best [/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m glad you said this because this is [i]exactly[/i] how I think of it, except an analogous situation to the point I&#039;m making would be this: Whiteboy is a prominent and active citizen of the U.S. for 50 years (he has four purple hearts) until he moves to France and becomes a Frenchman.&nbsp;  He starts sending votes in an envelope back home telling the U.S. what law changes he would like to see, and The President tells him that, with all due respect, French citizens don&#039;t get to vote in America.&nbsp; They can voice their opinions, of course, and we will listen, but they don&#039;t get to vote (i.e., get a say) in law changes because they aren&#039;t affected by the law changes.&nbsp; If they ever become U.S. citizens again, they will of course be allowed to vote.<br /><br />[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=528.msg5315#msg5315 date=1321024892]<br />[b]25[/b] (52.1%) Voted that team names should be league designated<br />[b]23[/b] (47.9%) Voted that captains should choose their own names[/quote]<br /><br />Until a few days ago, Stallion was correct, and that opinion did hold the majority.&nbsp; One of these three overturning votes was obviously TheKillerNacho (on the grounds that the NFL is cool), who signed up for this season, and now I can hear Xen cackling in the background (because I have to eat my words and take his opinion into account).<br /><br />But there are two things about this poll: First, as I said from the beginning, if the first 3 radio buttons represent one option, then Dew severely (although unintentionally) skewed the results.&nbsp; This is a classic poll-skewing technique.&nbsp; To illustrate this, imagine if one option were given 99 buttons and the other given 1 button somewhere among them.&nbsp; How will the results turn out?&nbsp; If you want to quote numbers like that we will need a new poll.<br /><br />Second, of the four options (because there were [b]four[/b] options, not two), the option for captains naming their own team received the most votes by far, and clearly represents the most popular option.<br /><br />And that is exactly why I am in favor of it.&nbsp; If I thought most players didn&#039;t want it, then I wouldn&#039;t want it either.<br /><br />[quote author=Beast link=topic=528.msg5303#msg5303 date=1320960667]Just to add another point or line of thinking, what about the players who are &#039;inactive&#039; because they disagree with the rules or something of that nature?[/quote]<br /><br />That is an excellent point.&nbsp; I can assure you that, aside from this thread and one drunken game of priv, the board are constantly suckling on the toes of White, Fast, Chain, Jen, Rott, you name &#039;em, trying to get them to come back and play with us, asking them what we can change about the IDL to get them to play.&nbsp; And to be honest, we probably would change the rules to get these guys to join, even if it lost us some of the newer guys.&nbsp; What can I say, we just like them better.<br /><br />Of course, this doesn&#039;t contradict what I have been saying because, in that case, they would be playing this season!&nbsp; Why would we change the rules for them if it [i]didn&#039;t[/i] bring them back?&nbsp; That doesn&#039;t make any sense, and that&#039;s actually all I&#039;m saying.