[quote author=Watermelon link=topic=723.msg7423#msg7423 date=1346547977]<br />This is probably the most ill-founded argument one could bring up. Again as I said previously in another post above, you just can&#039;t do this [please see the example I had posted]. By using your &#039;logic&#039; (and I use that term loosely in this case), every R member is a supporter of DDOSing other fellow members, and is completely their fault even if they&#039;re not around for this. Furthermore you claim that since R is an old clan (is it 2005 they were founded?) that they know how clans run since they&#039;re considerably older guys who have the years and years of experience and therefore willingly support that without a shadow of a doubt. In addition, the IDL has accepted Shane to play, which means that the IDL knowingly is letting him play despite his action on another port (skulltag, hacking and ban evading). Therefore by what you said, the IDL is responsible for letting him play and therefore endorses cheating on other ports. I&#039;m sure you can see how asinine such a thing would be by just those two examples alone.<br /><br />Trying to interfere with external port clan politics is Kilgore&#039;ish. The fact he is banned on Odamex and never will be able to play on this port again should be good enough for everyone. The best thing to do now instead of dragging this drama out would be to move past it and stop putting it in the spotlight. I&#039;m sure we&#039;re both familiar about how feeding trolls with attention just encourages more, and in this case does nothing.<br />Again if we go back to the Shane argument above, I have no problem with him playing on the IDL. He abides by the rules, he comes here to play and that is all that matters. I won&#039;t bring baggage over from another port. If Tosen decides to do something bad on Zandronum, then he is going to get banned and won&#039;t be playing that port either.<br /><br />The most [b]logical[/b] thing to do is ban the problem causer from the port and not throw out the good half of the apple with the bad. Asking H members to leave their clan and dissociate from everything related to that clan because of an event with one person is obviously extreme. I&#039;m sure with the vast amount of clan experience you possess that you understand how dynamic clan relations can be, and that not everyone is a shining gold star; we sometimes have to put up with stuff from time to time. If you want to go Kilgore and slander innocent members that don&#039;t have a part in this, feel free. I seem to have forgotten how important things like this are.<br /><br />I&#039;m hoping that the IDL can move forward past this event and secure it from ever happening again. The focus should be on the positive and where to go from here.<br /><br /><br /><br />Also Hydra just got back, his response is as follows:<br />[i]I do not care what happens on Odamex. We are a Zandronum clan and not responsible for anything that happens on another port. Tosen is not being kicked out.[/i]<br />He does not have a forum account and I posted this on his behalf. You can always ask him further questions on his Teamspeak server if you want to get in touch with him.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />FWIW, you may call your premise &quot;standing up for your friends&quot; and all that, but like Ladna alluded to, I think it&#039;s missing the bigger picture. <br /><br />I remember when I was in a clan in Soldat that this certain map in a private server (essentially the equivalent of odapriv without the organized teams) had gun turrets. The thing was, the gun turrets (in that version of Soldat anyways) was so OP that you could essentially control the map using them, and it was frowned upon to use them. Seeing as I was in high school and couldn&#039;t care, and wasn&#039;t sure why they weren&#039;t disabled if people really didn&#039;t like them, I decided to use them anyways. I didn&#039;t see the big deal; it&#039;s not like I used them in scrims or wars, knowing they weren&#039;t supposed to be there.<br /><br /> I believe a topic was made for the sole purpose of flaming me in the process, but essentially, people hated me, and everyone was pressuring my clan&#039;s leader to toss me out, and even have me banned from the server. In the end, a new version came out basically niffing the gun turrets, and they were eventually disabled on the private servers anyways.<br /><br />Now back to this; not wanting to leave H is not a crime. Redshirt not wanting to kick out Tosen or not caring that a&nbsp; competitive league in another port was grossly interfered with is not a crime. Still, why should we take any of you in H seriously if you&#039;re not willing to disassociate yourself with someone who is willing to comprise a competitive league essentially on a whim? The bigger thing is that Zandronum struggles to field a competitive league because of the nonchalantness of guys like some of the ones in H (Redshirt?), so Tosen doesn&#039;t face that threat of possibly not playing in that (nor cares).<br /><br />Still, it tells everyone else that you just may be a group that&#039;s more interested in trolling then actually being a real clan. If you&#039;re willing to face that, fine. But again, don&#039;t be mad that people look at the clan less seriously. 