huge wall of text here. I&#039;ll respond to the points directed towards my posts<br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=723.msg7450#msg7450 date=1346568781]<br /><br />Yes.&nbsp; If everyone did this, then all the shitty people wouldn&#039;t be in clans, and all the cool people would be in clans.&nbsp; Boom, problem solved.&nbsp; Your actions actually perpetuate the problem.<br />[/quote]<br />this is an idealistic scenario but [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIX0ZDqDljA]you cant always get what you want.[/url] eventually the members of H will grow tired of tosen at some point and have him kicked. its not going to happen immediately.<br /><br /><br />[quote]<br />No.&nbsp; Jenova isn&#039;t even in IDL.&nbsp; He actually does IDL a service by providing servers.&nbsp; Thanks Jenova!&nbsp; If IDL refused Jenova&#039;s help, IDL would be retardedly punishing itself.&nbsp; If you don&#039;t like it, put up money for IDL servers yourself.&nbsp; See &quot;Unless IDL gets desperate for players, then all bets are off&quot; above, but replace [players] with [servers].&nbsp; Also see the Era of Nostaric Tyranny.<br />[/quote]<br />jenova is very much in the idl, if he is hosting servers for them. apparently one scummy thing overrules another scummy thing. tosen spammed an idl game which got restarted in any case, got banned &quot;temporarily&quot;, and is safely off doing fuck all on a completely different community. jenova broke/breaks the law to deny someone&#039;s internet connection and crash whatever they were doing. makes sense<br /> <br /><br />[quote]<br />IDL doesn&#039;t enforce bans handed down from other ports, because it doesn&#039;t get involved in port politics.<br />[/quote]<br />so let me get this straight: idl doesn&#039;t get involved in port politics but people are calling for him to be banned from everything on zandronum, which is not involved with odamex or idl in any way, and is in fact, a [b]port[/b]<br /><br />???<br /><br />[quote]<br />Actually during the Age of TT, I could.&nbsp; I could ban you from Public CTF, Private CTF, IDL, ZDDL, SICL and Coop.&nbsp; We could actually break ST&#039;s ToS publicly (&quot;VP Is A Furry COOP&quot;), and ST admins would laugh along with us.&nbsp; This was because we were cool and respected.&nbsp; We were cool because we were funny and (Nostar at least) great at this game, and respected because I was fair and smart and Nostar was vengeful.<br />[/quote]<br />and this matters how? just because you run something does not mean you can just remove someone for transgressions they committed somewhere else or because they piss you off (unless you want to be a bad admin/organizer). I return to the example of<br />[quote]its like if a guy I know in a tf2 clan I&#039;m in crashed an idl game. what the fuck am I supposed to do about it?[/quote]<br /><br /><br />[quote]<br />Why shouldn&#039;t I be angry?&nbsp; Don&#039;t we agree Tosen is a puddle of festering vagina slime?&nbsp; Why are you in a clan with him then?<br /><br />Respect is found in deeds, not words, and certainly not in bullshit forum posts and IRC.&nbsp; Put up or shut up.<br />[/quote]<br />respect is mutual. the idl spends almost all of its time ostracizing itself from contact with zandronum or zdaemon so why should it care about the machinations of those ports/games/whatever? at almost any moment in #idl you can find someone who will sling shit at zandronum&#039;s clan scene. so you want yourself removed from them as much as possible, but when some little shithead that we ourselves dont like to acknowledge very much at all trashes a game, you get in a tizzy and call for blood then?<br /><br />[quote]<br />I want you to tell your clan leader to boot Tosen, and if he doesn&#039;t do it, I want you to quit.&nbsp; Actually I want you to be the type of person who doesn&#039;t need to be told this, but I admit optimism is one of my many weaknesses.<br />[/quote]<br />this is nonsense. I have the utmost respect for the idl but I temper that with reason. so one of my clanmates did something horrendously shitty. I understand this. I wish he was rid of but at the end of the day I live with it. none of the members of H will every intentionally allow what happened to happen ever again. I am not going to hara-kiri myself from a clan because one of its members did something dumb. in my opinion H has a lot of great and cool guys and the benefits of remaining far outweigh the burden of the knowledge of having tosen in it.<br /><br />so whats the problem again?<br /><br />[quote]<br />You could get your friends together and boycott your clan until it acts right.<br />[/quote]<br />see above<br /><br />[quote]<br />So basically what you&#039;re saying is that you&#039;re so desperate for friends that you don&#039;t mind being in a clan with Tosen.&nbsp; That&#039;s so respectable.&nbsp; Oh wait that other thing, pathetic.<br />[/quote]<br />glad to see you&#039;re being reasonable about this<br /><br />[quote]<br />No I&#039;m pretty sure everyone gets that you refuse to stand up for IDL because you&#039;re too afraid to quit your clan.<br />[/quote]<br />see above<br />