Hrm, it looks like this will be a long post.&nbsp; I&#039;ll try &amp; section it up.<br /><br />[b]TL;DR[/b]<br />My main concern is and always has been the competitive community.&nbsp; I think that switching to an open port would be great, so great in fact I started my own because I was worried Odamex wouldn&#039;t be able to fill that need, and in my opinion as a player it still doesn&#039;t (slopes, movebob, weird lag, moving sectors, jumping, whiffed shots).&nbsp; I have a high opinion of Dr. Sean and Ralphis and I&#039;ve no doubt Odamex will eventually get there.&nbsp; I really just worry about our small community splitting up for the stupidest reasons.<br /><br />[b]Supporting a move to Odamex[/b]<br /><br />If IDL switches to Odamex before Odamex is ready, I won&#039;t support it.&nbsp; To be ready, I think Odamex needs:<br /><br />&nbsp; - Some way to watch an IDL game (there are currently only 2 teams)<br />&nbsp; - Voting (AlexMax is working on this and there&#039;s already a version in SVN)<br />&nbsp; - Slopes<br />&nbsp; - Show flag carrier on the scoreboard<br />&nbsp; - Fixed moving sectors (try opening a door or standing on an elevator)<br />&nbsp; - Fixed jumping (still can&#039;t jump on top of trees)<br />&nbsp; - Projectiles act weird in general; I think the plasma rifle lags me?<br />&nbsp; - Stats<br />&nbsp; - Firing lag fixes<br /><br />What does me not supporting it look like?&nbsp; Here are the things I currently provide:<br /><br />&nbsp; - IDL servers<br />&nbsp; - IDL.org hosting, maintenance &amp; support<br />&nbsp; - I also play in IDL<br />&nbsp; - IDL.org domain name<br />&nbsp; - IDL demo archiving<br /><br />I wouldn&#039;t do that stuff anymore.&nbsp; I wouldn&#039;t delete the stuff or anything, and the site&#039;s public domain so anyone can do whatever they want to or with it.&nbsp; I guess if no one wanted to take it over I&#039;d burn some DVDs and mail them to Ralphis.&nbsp; I haven&#039;t thought that far ahead.<br /><br />[b]Holding the league hostage[/b]<br /><br />It probably looks like I&#039;m trying to hold the league hostage.&nbsp; I guess you can say that, but that&#039;s honestly not my intent.&nbsp; We&#039;ve never let source ports or their developers or administrators or politics dictate what IDL does, IDL has always made its own decisions based on the players want.&nbsp; It&#039;s one of the foundations of our community, and we rightly freak out when we feel like our admins aren&#039;t making the right decisions.&nbsp; I support IDL because I think it&#039;s the best thing in Doom right now, not just for the competitive but for all Doom everywhere and forever; IDL is the best thing to happen to Doom because the players run it.<br /><br />If IDL switches to Odamex before it&#039;s ready, it means you guys think Odamex is more important than IDL, and I think that&#039;s seriously fucked up.&nbsp; This is the same line of thinking that gets us in faggoty arguments about SR50 binds, or gun sprite settings, or PWO, or red screen, or movebob.&nbsp; <br /><br />If you guys start favoring source ports over IDL, that means the IDL I love is dead, and if that&#039;s true there&#039;s no reason for me to keep supporting it the way I have been.&nbsp; Call it &quot;selfishness&quot; if you want.<br /><br />[b]Gun puffs &amp; such[/b]<br /><br />I think IDL&#039;s used ZDaemon for 5+ years and ZDaemon does predicted puffs, and if Odamex doesn&#039;t provide that then it&#039;s missing something.&nbsp; I actually think it should be optional, that&#039;s why in EE it is.<br /><br />[b]Subjective settings[/b]<br /><br />The debate is pretty subjective, and [b]that&#039;s why we all need to make this decision together[/b], or at least have the opportunity to speak our minds about it.&nbsp; HumanBones is talking about not running IDL until Odamex is ready to host it.&nbsp; That&#039;s not his decision to make.&nbsp; If that&#039;s the case and Odamex isn&#039;t ready for the summer IDL season, I&#039;ll just run it myself.<br /><br />[b]An army of people willing to help[/b]<br /><br />I think that&#039;s awesome!&nbsp; I try and &quot;memorialize&quot; anyone who&#039;s contributed meaningfully to IDL on [url=http://www.intldoomleague.org/info/credits]the IDL.org credits page[/url].&nbsp; I don&#039;t think I suggested &quot;that players would not come together to make the push and changes to IDL resources necessary&quot;&nbsp; ???<br /><br />Yeah I&#039;m sure we can change all the slopes in all the maps to stairs, gameplay issues aside.&nbsp; I think it&#039;s stupid to do so for no reason.&nbsp; Yeah we can just cut maps with slopes.&nbsp; I think it&#039;s stupid to do so for no reason.&nbsp; Yeah I can spend another couple of months or whatever figuring out Odamex stats, I can even patch Odamex to output an event log itself or whatever.&nbsp; I think it&#039;s stupid to do so for no reason.<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=622.msg6368#msg6368 date=1330837458]<br />Simple. Players would rather take their chances than to play in a league that is run by a bunch of smug assholes.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I think it&#039;s smug to assume you speak for the players.&nbsp; A lot of players respect you, and I think you deserve that respect.&nbsp; I wish rather than be hostile and negative in IRC and on the forums (seriously I looked at your post history and it&#039;s depressing) that you&#039;d be constructive and try to help IDL instead of constantly criticize it.&nbsp; It&#039;s way easier to tear things down than it is to build them.<br /><br />It&#039;s kind of a disconnect to say, &quot;I don&#039;t like the board, let&#039;s use Odamex&quot;.&nbsp; I&#039;ve talked with HumanBones about the things he can do to resolve problems on the board, and we&#039;ll see if he does anything about it.<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=622.msg6368#msg6368 date=1330837458]<br />Your other points are null because they are based on the current status of odamex. Wait until 0.6 and&nbsp; then get back with us.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Yeah but you can say that about anything.&nbsp; Guys, let&#039;s use Skulltag for IDL.&nbsp; I know it&#039;s not ready now but ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.