I re-read the thread, and I realized some of you guys are new and may not know some things.<br /><br />It&#039;s IDL&#039;s policy to not get involved in port politics.&nbsp; If someone DoS&#039;s someone on st2, or someone&#039;s banned on ZD, it doesn&#039;t matter in IDL.<br /><br />We don&#039;t endorse a port, and we often have heated debates about them.&nbsp; A lot of people love Odamex, some people hate it.&nbsp; A lot of people love ZDaemon, some people hate it.&nbsp; This is just the way of things.<br /><br />No one gets banned from IDL.&nbsp; There&#039;s not really a policy about forums, IRC or in-game behavior.&nbsp; In fact, it&#039;s likely Tosen won&#039;t be banned for that long.&nbsp; It&#039;s kind of a pain in the ass to maintain long-lasting bans.<br /><br />Players do get suspended from IDL, usually for chronic absence, but there&#039;s the notorious Dragan cheating incident.<br /><br />With these things in mind, allow me to answer some questions, and respond to some general points:<br /><br />[quote=Watermelon]<br />Blaming H for this incident over one thing is literally the same as saying &quot;You&#039;re muslim so therefore you are a terrorist no questions asked&quot; when in reality that obviously is not true.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />No.&nbsp; The Islamic religion has millions of members, the vast majority of whom have no association whatsoever with terrorists.&nbsp; They advocate for peace, compassion and community.&nbsp; They don&#039;t even drink.<br /><br />You guys hang out in an IRC channel with Tosen.&nbsp; You play with him on your team.&nbsp; You talk to him all the time.&nbsp; This is way different than coincidentally sharing a religion.<br /><br />[quote=Watermelon]<br />By using your &#039;logic&#039; (and I use that term loosely in this case), every R member is a supporter of DDOSing other fellow members, and is completely their fault even if they&#039;re not around for this.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />No one really takes [R] seriously.&nbsp; Don&#039;t fall into that trap.<br /><br />[quote=Watermelon]<br />In addition, the IDL has accepted Shane to play, which means that the IDL knowingly is letting him play despite his action on another port (skulltag, hacking and ban evading). Therefore by what you said, the IDL is responsible for letting him play and therefore endorses cheating on other ports.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />You&#039;re almost right about this.&nbsp; IDL doesn&#039;t &quot;[endorse] cheating on other ports&quot;, it just doesn&#039;t give a fuck.<br /><br />This isn&#039;t an absolute rule though.&nbsp; Players who become known for cheating or trolling generally aren&#039;t invited (see Kal Foxis or Mr. Cheater).<br /><br />The idea is that we understand that players make mistakes or sometimes go too far fucking around with people, but now this is IDL and it&#039;s time to get serious.&nbsp; If, after understanding that and being given that chance they still fuck around, they&#039;re dead.&nbsp; Unless IDL gets desperate for players, then all bets are off.<br /><br />It&#039;s also fallacious to equate IDL inviting a player with a player choosing to be in a clan with another player.&nbsp; Besides the obvious difference of IDL being a league and not a player, and a player being a player and not a league, IDL&#039;s motivations and responsibilities are nothing like those of a player.<br /><br />[quote=Watermelon]<br />Trying to interfere with external port clan politics is Kilgore&#039;ish.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Kilgore never did this.&nbsp; You could maybe say that if he ever banned anyone for what they did on ST, but he didn&#039;t do anything like that because, like everyone else, he didn&#039;t give a fuck about what happened on ST.<br /><br />[quote=Watermelon]<br />The fact he is banned on Odamex and never will be able to play on this port again should be good enough for everyone. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />You can&#039;t be banned on Odamex.&nbsp; He could download Oda, start a server and join it himself if he wanted to.&nbsp; He can even run his own master.<br /><br />[quote=Watermelon]<br />Asking H members to leave their clan and dissociate from everything related to that clan because of an event with one person is obviously extreme.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />No it&#039;s not.&nbsp; When someone in your clan does something like this, you take it up with your clan leader.&nbsp; If your clan leader is like, &quot;nah that guy is staying in&quot;, then you quit.&nbsp; See Nautilus in UD.&nbsp; This is how real clans handle their shit, and what Rust is trying to point out to you.<br /><br />[quote=Watermelon]<br />If you want to go Kilgore and slander innocent members that don&#039;t have a part in this, feel free.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />You kind of throw &quot;Kilgore&quot; around a lot.&nbsp; That guy used his control over ZDaemon to kill its community, banning people for personal vendettas both real and imagined.&nbsp; Nothing even close to that is happening here.<br /><br />[quote=Legion]<br />what the hell are we supposed to do about it? pretty much every zandro clan has someone in it that has done something shitty and dumb as fuck. there are little options for zandro clans except to not be in one. I like being in clans. even if there is a douchebag in a clan what do you want me to do? leave it? even though there are a bunch of other cool people in it?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Yes.&nbsp; If everyone did this, then all the shitty people wouldn&#039;t be in clans, and all the cool people would be in clans.&nbsp; Boom, problem solved.&nbsp; Your actions actually perpetuate the problem.<br /><br />[quote=Legion]<br />hey, I&#039;m in the idl, and jenova ddos&#039;d me. he ddos&#039;d me several times in zandro and then another time on oda. is anything going to happen about that?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />No.&nbsp; Jenova isn&#039;t even in IDL.&nbsp; He actually does IDL a service by providing servers.&nbsp; Thanks Jenova!&nbsp; If IDL refused Jenova&#039;s help, IDL would be retardedly punishing itself.&nbsp; If you don&#039;t like it, put up money for IDL servers yourself.&nbsp; See &quot;Unless IDL gets desperate for players, then all bets are off&quot; above, but replace [players] with [servers].&nbsp; Also see the Era of Nostaric Tyranny.<br /><br />[quote=Legion]<br />reckless cheated like 80 times on zandronum. he&#039;s on a team<br />shane cheated quite a few times on zandronum too. he&#039;s on a team<br />jenova ddos&#039;d me and multiple other people. he RUNS THE FUCKING SERVERS<br /><br /><br />jenova ddos&#039;ing people period should be unacceptable in the first place. nobody is calling for his ousting from R or anything of the sort<br />[/quote]<br /><br />IDL doesn&#039;t enforce bans handed down from other ports, because it doesn&#039;t get involved in port politics.<br /><br />Nobody takes [R] seriously, and unless you want that to happen to H - and eventually you - you should quit that clan.<br /><br />[quote=Legion]<br />you just cant ban him everywhere for something that happened on a port/league completely different and unrelated.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Actually during the Age of TT, I could.&nbsp; I could ban you from Public CTF, Private CTF, IDL, ZDDL, SICL and Coop.&nbsp; We could actually break ST&#039;s ToS publicly (&quot;VP Is A Furry COOP&quot;), and ST admins would laugh along with us.&nbsp; This was because we were cool and respected.&nbsp; We were cool because we were funny and (Nostar at least) great at this game, and respected because I was fair and smart and Nostar was vengeful.<br /><br />[quote=Legion]<br />this is the exact thing I try to avoid, you know the angry hatemongering? claiming that I or other members of H do not have respect for the IDL is absurd and you know this well. nothing is stopping you from saying this but nothing stops me from telling you that you&#039;re getting emotional.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Why shouldn&#039;t I be angry?&nbsp; Don&#039;t we agree Tosen is a puddle of festering vagina slime?&nbsp; Why are you in a clan with him then?<br /><br />Respect is found in deeds, not words, and certainly not in bullshit forum posts and IRC.&nbsp; Put up or shut up.<br /><br />[quote=Legion]<br />so this begs the question: what the fuck do you want ME to do?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I want you to tell your clan leader to boot Tosen, and if he doesn&#039;t do it, I want you to quit.&nbsp; Actually I want you to be the type of person who doesn&#039;t need to be told this, but I admit optimism is one of my many weaknesses.<br /><br />[quote=Legion]<br />I am not the clan leaders, so there isn&#039;t anything I can do about tosen being in the clan.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />You could get your friends together and boycott your clan until it acts right.<br /><br />[quote=Legion]<br />my only other option is to deal with it, and since almost every other member of H is a really cool guy and plays well on zandronum, I choose to stay.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />So basically what you&#039;re saying is that you&#039;re so desperate for friends that you don&#039;t mind being in a clan with Tosen.&nbsp; That&#039;s so respectable.&nbsp; Oh wait that other thing, pathetic.<br /><br />[quote=Legion]<br />people drawing the wrong conclusion from this are free to do so but they are completely misconstruing me and my intentions<br />[/quote]<br /><br />No I&#039;m pretty sure everyone gets that you refuse to stand up for IDL because you&#039;re too afraid to quit your clan.