[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=723.msg7452#msg7452 date=1346572320]<br />this is an idealistic scenario but [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIX0ZDqDljA]you cant always get what you want.[/url] eventually the members of H will grow tired of tosen at some point and have him kicked. its not going to happen immediately.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />If ruining an IDL game doesn&#039;t cause the members of H to &quot;grow tired&quot; of Tosen, I have no respect for them because they&#039;re retarded.&nbsp; I honestly can&#039;t think of a worse thing to do.&nbsp; OK I can, but it&#039;s like sawing off Oath&#039;s leg or something.&nbsp; How many games would Tosen have to ruin before it became a problem?&nbsp; Would it ever be a problem?<br /><br />Let&#039;s change the situation around a little.&nbsp; Instead of something as trivial and frivolous as messing up a videogame (ruining an IDL game), how about we say that you know for a fact that Tosen skins little girls because he wants to sew their hides together into a beautiful coat.&nbsp; Are you gonna say shit like, &quot;well [b]I[/b] don&#039;t skin little girls, so I don&#039;t see what people are so mad about&quot;, or &quot;well, he skins little [b]black[/b] girls, so I don&#039;t see what white people are so pissed about&quot;.&nbsp; I&#039;m (obviously) not trying to compare skinning little girls with ruining an IDL game, but you can see the ethics here.&nbsp; Guilt by association is a real thing.<br /><br />[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=723.msg7452#msg7452 date=1346572320]<br />jenova is very much in the idl, if he is hosting servers for them.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />My point is that the only way to &quot;punish&quot; Jenova for DoS&#039;ing you is to refuse his servers, which would actually just punish IDL.&nbsp; I didn&#039;t mean to get into a semantic argument over the meaning of &quot;in&quot;, my mistake.&nbsp;  ::)<br /><br />[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=723.msg7452#msg7452 date=1346572320]<br />so let me get this straight: idl doesn&#039;t get involved in port politics but people are calling for him to be banned from everything on zandronum, which is not involved with odamex or idl in any way, and is in fact, a [b]port[/b]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />No one&#039;s calling for Tosen to be banned on ST2, because no one gives a shit about ST2.&nbsp; No one gives a shit about ZDaemon either, that&#039;s why we don&#039;t care when people are banned from either port.<br /><br />What people want is for IDL players who are also H members to show their respect for IDL.&nbsp; This is an opportunity for you guys to gain some real standing in the IDL community, and I hope you all take advantage of it, because respect is hard to get around here.<br /><br />I should apologize for being confusing.&nbsp; IDL is [b]STEEPED[/b] in port politics, but we&#039;re a lobbying organization, not the cops.&nbsp; We don&#039;t enforce stupid grudges from other ports.&nbsp; Key IDL community members lobbied for lifting of Ralphis&#039; ZDaemon ban, opening the ZDaemon source code, advertising IDL, opening the Skulltag source code (congratulations again AlexMax!), so on and so forth.&nbsp; Our interest is 100% the competitive community, and while that&#039;s a noble cause, it doesn&#039;t make it any less biased than Kilgore&#039;s agenda (be a big faggot while not being a ball-draining goat fucker).<br /><br />That said, lobbying to have someone banned from a given port because they ruined an IDL game is a little silly.&nbsp; Who cares if they can play shitty public CTF, that&#039;s the REAL punishment right there.&nbsp; That&#039;s why we&#039;ve never lobbied for that.&nbsp; Besides, we&#039;re not so petty as to want someone to never have fun ever again.&nbsp; We just don&#039;t want it to be at our expense, and if you go so far as to ruin an IDL playoff game, I think it&#039;s pretty reasonable to ban you from the competitive Doom scene.&nbsp; But hey, MM8DM all day idiot.<br /><br />[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=723.msg7452#msg7452 date=1346572320]<br />just because you run something does not mean you can just remove someone for transgressions they committed somewhere else or because they piss you off<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Actually that&#039;s exactly what it means.&nbsp; I would argue, though, that banning Tosen for a good long time isn&#039;t pursuing a petty vendetta, and I think you agree with me here.<br /><br />[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=723.msg7452#msg7452 date=1346572320]<br />I return to the example of<br />[quote]its like if a guy I know in a tf2 clan I&#039;m in crashed an idl game. what the fuck am I supposed to do about it?[/quote]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m happy to get into yet another terrible analogy.&nbsp; I would still say that you should tell your clan leader that his clan&#039;s been infiltrated by a cocksucking pillow biter who ties women&#039;s underwear together into a long string so that when he shoves them up his ass it makes what he thinks is a beautiful, sexy tail, and that you think he should be kicked out because it&#039;s embarrassing to all of you.&nbsp; If your clan leader tells you to fuck off, you tell him to fuck off.&nbsp; This is how you stand up for things, and it&#039;s how you show others you respect something - you put yourself on the line for them.&nbsp; Your (and others&#039;) unwillingness to do so for IDL is honestly pretty disappointing, although I can kind of understand in your case since IDL has been particularly hard on you.<br /><br />[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=723.msg7452#msg7452 date=1346572320]<br />respect is mutual. the idl spends almost all of its time ostracizing itself from contact with zandronum or zdaemon so why should it care about the machinations of those ports/games/whatever? at almost any moment in #idl you can find someone who will sling shit at zandronum&#039;s clan scene. so you want yourself removed from them as much as possible, but when some little shithead that we ourselves dont like to acknowledge very much at all trashes a game, you get in a tizzy and call for blood then?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I don&#039;t know what any of this has to do with anything.&nbsp; IDL couldn&#039;t give a shit about what ZD or ST2 do because those communities lost any semblance of credibility or respect years ago.&nbsp; While this was largely due to their administrations, in ST&#039;s case the idiot playerbase had a lot to do with it as well.&nbsp; In fact, the dumbest threads here and on Altdeath are ST threads.&nbsp; This has become one of them, btw.<br /><br />If you want respect, you have to act respectably.&nbsp; That means not associating with shit-eating cum-gargling sissyboys like Tosen.&nbsp; I am about to write Ladna&#039;s Respect Guide if this keeps up.&nbsp; Don&#039;t make me do it Legion.&nbsp; Don&#039;t.<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />I found [H]&#039;s clan thread on the ST2 forums, current member list:<br /><br />&nbsp; - Hydra<br />&nbsp; - Iced<br />&nbsp; - Frank<br />&nbsp; - Tosen<br />&nbsp; - EXWiz<br />&nbsp; - Dread<br />&nbsp; - Legion<br />&nbsp; - Batman<br />&nbsp; - Spider<br />&nbsp; - Mr.Cheater (Billy Herrington)<br />&nbsp; - Satori<br />&nbsp; - Lilith<br />&nbsp; - Watermelon<br />&nbsp; - SwiftShot<br /><br />I say you take EXWiz, Spider, Watermelon &amp; Swiftshot and make a competing clan.&nbsp; You can call it [L] (haha just kidding).&nbsp; I am not kidding about this idea though.