[quote=&quot;Xenaero&quot;]<br />&quot;Attempting to even coordinate the map becomes a losing battle as soon as everyone respawns in search for a worthwhile weapon.&quot; I guess this applies to every map that&#039;s not spoonfeeding you SSG spawns? Not only that, how can you claim any &#039;real strategy&#039; when you&#039;ve probably played it as often as I have, a grand total of two times? I think people need to play it more so they have a better idea of how the map is laid out instead of being two year olds and already writing it off. It&#039;ll be interesting to look at the demo to see how it unfolded but I can probably guess that if no one taking was taking a game on it seriously, the games were probably shit anyway.[/quote]<br /><br />As far as maps that don&#039;t give you an SSG as soon as you spawn, I can name a handful off the top of my head that make coordinating positions relatively easy: map20, map22, map01, map28, map29 and so forth. It&#039;s not about whether you spawn with an SSG or not, it&#039;s where the SSG is positioned and that fact that there&#039;s only one ssg in the entire map.<br /><br />As far as coordinating and attempting a seamless flow, I can tell you that all of us on Rust&#039;s team were on TS for the entire game. As soon as you die, if your teammates are in the other flag room grabbing their flag, it becomes an instant flag standoff.&nbsp; All of a sudden, everyone&#039;s ideal position has changed and defense instantly becomes offense. <br /><br />Some would argue that maps which yield this sort of gameplay/flow with ever-changing positions is just another variable of CTF; a different sort of gameplay not often played. I would argue with them that they are retarded. As a defender, if I want to play a gamemode where I&#039;m in their base more than I&#039;m in mine, I&#039;ll go play double domination. And I would also like to point out that it&#039;s not about the fact that the map encourages flag standoffs at times, it&#039;s the fact that they become an incredibly common thing. That is completely chaotic and we already have a map that does that for us: map18. Chaos is not game-flow, it&#039;s chaos.<br /><br />But if people want to insist that this sort of style is awesome and should be applied, I&#039;d be more than willing to accept it if that&#039;s what the vast majority of this community wants. I&#039;ve played this map in 3vs3 as well, generally it&#039;s not as bad. But it&#039;s still not very fun. <br /><br />As you and I have both stated, Xen, I don&#039;t think the layout of the map itself is all that terrible. It really just requires better spawn spots, weapon placement and an additional SSG somewhere. At least then, the green armor in the middle seems to be worth controlling more. Perhaps if these adjustments are made and we find the map becomes more stalematish, we could change the green armor to blue armor. Then it&#039;s really worth controlling. <br /><br />Other than that, the map is just broken in it&#039;s current state. Nobody really wants to play it any time it&#039;s suggested in priv, so that tells me more people seem to be against it than for it. And the truth is, even though it&#039;s in the wad, it doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;ll be a scheduled map in the regular season. Perhaps it&#039;ll make for a homefield map an underdog division winner may pursue over a tough wild-card team in hopes of an upset. Other than that, in it&#039;s form now, it&#039;s just stealing a map spot in which a much better map could be placed in. 