Hey Cab.<br /><br />[quote author=CabooseA7X link=topic=147.msg1243#msg1243 date=1260546789]<br />Now I can openly admit we ALL 3 agreed to throw the game.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />The commissioner and board head make these decisions in concert with the rest of the board.&nbsp; So you can accuse the rest of your team of also throwing the game, and you can even provide logs and things like that, and we&#039;ll decide to act or not.&nbsp; But I think it would be better to do this less publicly.&nbsp; Otherwise it looks a little like, &quot;but mom, he did it too!&quot;<br /><br />[quote]<br />But, can I state that rules were not set at this time?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Did you really think you can take an action that harms the league without repercussions?&nbsp; I just can&#039;t believe that anyone thinks they could throw a game without some kind of response from the administration.&nbsp; And if your best defense was, &quot;it&#039;s not a rule!&quot; then I guess you didn&#039;t plan ahead well enough.&nbsp; I don&#039;t mean to be a dick about it, but we can do whatever we want, and I think that players would rather play in a league where players who throw games are punished.<br /><br />[quote]<br />I wasn&#039;t able to because of this. I think it&#039;s pretty stupid. I can see what was done was wrong, but to only punish me for a GROUP decision, and the fact that (to my belief) there were games thrown?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Actually I&#039;m really disappointed that you threw a game Caboose.&nbsp; You&#039;re a great runner and a great asset to the league.&nbsp; I&#039;m also really disappointed that you seem to have a habit of not showing up for practices, being unprepared and not showing up between seasons to priv.&nbsp; When the administration deliberates on the invite list, lots and lots of things are taken into consideration, and all of this stuff stacked up against you causing us not to extend an invite.&nbsp; You can say that there&#039;s lots of other players that have done equal or worse things that also got invited, and maybe you&#039;re right, but it doesn&#039;t mean you should have been invited, it just means maybe they shouldn&#039;t have.&nbsp; I would love it if you had more dedication to the IDL and showed it this season and in the off-season.&nbsp; But frankly, I doubt that will happen.<br /><br />[quote]<br />I&#039;m not exactly sure about games thrown before, but it does sound VERY likely to me. Since this was never elaborated on before I get punished? I didn&#039;t even know about my punishment before I came upon this thread.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Games probably have been thrown before.&nbsp; You&#039;re making the points that you didn&#039;t know that throwing games was bad, which I find baseless, and that other people have thrown games so you shouldn&#039;t be singled out.&nbsp; I&#039;m saying that everyone knows throwing games is bad (if they don&#039;t, they&#039;re dumb) and that you should be punished for taking actions that harm the league -- even though we didn&#039;t even punish you in this case!<br /><br />[quote]<br />I&#039;m not on the Illeligable list for an extended (x) amount of time. Because of a simple misunderstanding that was NEVER elaborated about, will I be banned from the IDL in future seasons? Please elaborate more about this, even though this isn&#039;t on topic. I am very curious of this now that I know of this.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />There&#039;s no &quot;ineligible list&quot;, just a list of invited players and suspended players.&nbsp; You are on neither, and I assume if you continue to avoid priv and the overall IDL community you&#039;ll stay off the invite list.<br /><br />[quote author=CabooseA7X link=topic=147.msg1248#msg1248 date=1260580033]<br />as I stated, it was a group decision. We all 3 wanted that to happen. Saber and cookies are here, yet you single me out.&nbsp; Why was I the only one singled out?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />When I watched that game I was spectating you, and I told the administration I thought you threw the game.&nbsp; It&#039;s been a while, but I think that the final flag you&#039;re on the CG platform and you stop moving and turn around while the other team&#039;s runner scores.&nbsp; There were other things in the game that made me think you threw it specifically, in fact, we never really considered the fact that maybe the whole team threw it.&nbsp; I suppose we will at this point, but you were singled out because your actions were quite obvious, at least to me.<br /><br />And for what it&#039;s worth, Saber has volunteered to be a captain numerous times, and is a pretty active pctf player.&nbsp; I think that if we considered the whole team and decided that all three of you threw the game we might not have invited cookies, but Saber has overall been a positive influence on the league.<br /><br />[quote]<br />I think before assuming things we need to clarify exactly what all went on. Something like this is frowned upon, but the fact it wasn&#039;t something that was stated in the rules, or never even mentioned, you point fingers at ME and ME only and say I&#039;m doing wrong without ever clarifying the penalties or the consequences. Then for me to not even know this whole thing, i wasn&#039;t even talked to. IMO that&#039;s poorly handling the situation. The least you could do is talk to me and the other players to ensure it doesn&#039;t happen again before you go off &quot;NOPE CANT ATTEND THIS SEASON.&quot; But hey, that&#039;s just my opinion. No where in here am I trying to start shit up, just simply bringing something up :]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I think here it&#039;s worth clarifying that you weren&#039;t &quot;punished&quot;.&nbsp; Receiving an invite each IDL season is by no means guaranteed.&nbsp; Your behavior caused us to not want to invite you, and thus we didn&#039;t.&nbsp; This is the way that the invite-only system is supposed to work, players who are overall harmful for the league aren&#039;t invited, and players who are overall good for the league are.<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=147.msg1244#msg1244 date=1260565135]<br />Personally I think the IDL board as of late has been a bit too penalty happy especially given the community size.&nbsp; People should be given second chances and issues should be discussed and brought to light in the public.&nbsp; It should not be some secret committee holding hearings and deciding players fate without them even knowing about it.&nbsp; Unless players are committing multiple infractions over and over I don&#039;t think banning someone for a season or more is a good idea.&nbsp; The only thing which I think would warrant such harsh measures on a first time basis is aliasing as another player in a match or cheating.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Cheating got Dragan a 2-year suspension.&nbsp; Throwing a game got Caboose nothing.&nbsp; However, combined with his general absence in all things IDL, we decided not to invite him.&nbsp; So no penalty really.<br /><br />When I was interim Commissioner, I suspended both you (Fastidious) and Shakal for the rest of the season so your captains could replace you.&nbsp; But that&#039;s because it was past the trading deadline - and neither of you were playing anyway so no harm there.&nbsp; The board also revoked the retroactivity clause, so I&#039;m not sure what you&#039;re talking about penalty happy.&nbsp; We&#039;ve got Dragan, Shakal, and Blair back in the league, cheaters and quitters galore!&nbsp; Second chances (and in some cases 4th chances) abound!<br /><br />And I guess I don&#039;t disagree that things could be more transparent, but I like that board members are currently free to vote however they like without people harassing them individually.&nbsp; I feel like if the community thought we did something unfair we&#039;d hear about it -- sort of like we are now.&nbsp; I agree that if the 3 players on BBC agreed to throw the game we should take that into consideration, but to me that&#039;s new information.<br /><br />[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=147.msg1247#msg1247 date=1260576963]<br />http://wiki.intldoomleague.org/index.php?title=Suspended_Players<br /><br />What&#039;s the point of this?&nbsp; Especially when it is applied unevenly.&nbsp; I notice Ralphis name is not on there yet he had as much absence issues as anyone last season.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Actually there was some kind of weird misunderstanding about that.&nbsp; I thought that Ralphis withdrew, so I talked with the board about what to do about it.&nbsp; We decided that I would be interim commissioner, and that we would pick up another board member as well.&nbsp; That was... Mantis-X I think.&nbsp; It turns out that Ralphis didn&#039;t withdraw, but when he got online next and we told him, he said it was probably for the best, so he officially withdrew.&nbsp; He held a grudge against me, but I explained I didn&#039;t mean to fuck him over, and now we&#039;re homo again.<br /><br />That&#039;s quite different than the circumstances under which you and Shakal were suspended.&nbsp; In fact I really only did that so your captains could pick up new players.<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />And I want to talk about transparency a little.&nbsp; When we&#039;re discussing things, we talk about lots and lots of stuff.&nbsp; If anyone reading this thinks these last 8 or so posts are juicy, let me tell you that we talk about everything.&nbsp; Who&#039;s probably cheating, what captains have been bought, who&#039;s balls at this game, who pisses us off, etc. etc. etc.&nbsp; And I don&#039;t mean to say that we make decisions based on those discussions, but no one would believe me if I said that we NEVER EVER EVER talked about certain players&#039; pasts with cheating before inviting them, or that we don&#039;t review demos and talk about players and how they evolve and what&#039;s possible in Doom.&nbsp; Everyone of these discussions would cause ridiculous forum drama every time, and we probably have one a day.&nbsp; It&#039;s hard enough to have productive discussions with just the 6 of us, I can&#039;t imagine what would happen if people were in our channel all the time, or if we had to constantly worry about what will happen when the community reads this log.&nbsp; I guess this makes it sound even more &quot;secret club&quot;, but honestly I&#039;ve spent a lot of time these last few days on the goddamn forums and on IRC when I&#039;m supposed to be doing a lot of other IDL stuff.&nbsp; I believe the board would be far less effective with more transparency, but I suppose maybe we could try it and see how it works.