[quote author=HumanBones link=topic=494.msg4674#msg4674 date=1314988311]<br />If you want to use ZDCTF24 as an example, which was a great IDL map, it&#039;s still not that easy to defend. [/quote]<br /><br />Are you serious?&nbsp; Not easy to defend?&nbsp; I don&#039;t even know what to say.<br /><br />[quote author=HumanBones link=topic=494.msg4674#msg4674 date=1314988311]Not that it&#039;s such a bad thing for a map to be &quot;easy&quot; to defend; I don&#039;t understand why a map can&#039;t require tougher [b]O[/b]. [/quote]<br /><br />Now you seem to be back tracking.&nbsp; There is a big difference between tougher O and having to get lucky because even the best people can&#039;t score much.<br /><br /><br />[quote author=HumanBones link=topic=494.msg4674#msg4674 date=1314988311]I love all types of different maps, and I love all the different types of games each map provides. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a map that requires a runner to play to the best of their abilities, using mind and skill, to score a single flag. If anything, that&#039;s the true test of a great runner, not a map where every person on the team manages to score a flag. The point is that these types of maps [b]should never[/b] be excluded from the IDL wad. Ladna hit the nail on the head; we have a responsibility to include maps of every style.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />See this is what I don&#039;t understand from all your grindy super defensive map apologists, certain maps players don&#039;t play their best on because they are &quot;too easy&quot;?&nbsp; Grinds maps somehow require more from a runner?&nbsp; I don&#039;t think so.&nbsp; Maps with choices let people play at their true skills because they can exploit themselves more and not get their large skill set reduced to a limited set style of a shitty grind map.