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	(7650, 738, 18, 1348688136, 216, 7650, 'Re: MasterBowl Stats', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '130.63.213.8', 1, 0, '', 'woah, there&#039;s a website?', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(7827, 758, 25, 1352783249, 16, 7827, 'Re: IDL Winter 2013 Signups', 'Tai', 'Tai223236@yahoo.com', '98.216.91.67', 1, 0, '', 'Name: Tai<br />Country/State: USA<br />Email Contact: Tai223236@yahoo.com<br />IM Contact: QuakeNet #idl, #renegades<br />Regular Availability: Most evenings', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(7837, 752, 25, 1353107409, 17, 7837, 'Re: Winter 2013 Time Table', 'MionicDonut', 'Sparx7300@yahoo.com', '131.156.137.37', 1, 0, '', 'Sorry to be a bother about this but is the 2013 wad out in its official form yet?<br /><br />I dont have access to #idl and don&#039;t recall the priv password (where I can dl wad since I need to connect on odamex, but thats another problem for another forum) and the wad isnt officially on any host site.<br /><br />Did it wind up coming out on schedule?', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(7858, 758, 25, 1354140489, 2210, 7858, 'Re: IDL Winter 2013 Signups', 'Spider', 'arconte1337@hotmail.com', '190.160.67.51', 1, 0, '', 'Name: Spider<br />Country/State: Chile<br />Email contact: arconte1337@hotmail.com<br />Instant Message Contact: Spider/TheSpider (IRC)<br />Regular Availability: above 5:30pm i should be fine most of days', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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VALUES 
	(7948, 762, 25, 1355727988, 214, 7948, 'Re: Nawt Signing Up?', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '65.71.124.242', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Godsdoomer link=topic=762.msg7939#msg7939 date=1355703837]I know that everyone can&#039;t be pleased with the change to oda - me being one of them. The reasons for the move from what Ive heard is that zd was a &quot;dieing&quot; port, and the fact that zd administration wouldn&#039;t give the league the new server clients or whatever they&#039;re called.<br />[/quote]<br />I&#039;m extremely glad to see 1.08 go to hell. I&#039;ve hated it since the night of the forced update(downgrade) from the superior 1.07. No longer do I have to put up with 1.08&#039;s garbage netcode, invisible trees, random client crashes, inability to handle ping spikes, corpse bug, and the amazing feature that breaks map04. The best part is that if 108 had continued to be used, those bugs, which can cost teams a win, would still be rampant with no hope of getting fixed. Why not use 109? After the end of Season XI (earlier this year), there was a dilemma. The ZD administration was only allowing certain hosts to receive the binaries for the then upcoming 109. This meant meant two things: 1) No IDL servers with 109; 2) We had no clue in knowing what 109 would play like. It was left up to a coinflip to either continue with 1.08 or risk a season on Oda.<br /><br />Sure, it was a possibility to run IDL on 108 for a few more years, but I&#039;d rather swallow caltrops than put up with server crashes and client disconnects that completely ruin games. Don&#039;t even suggest using 109 in the future because it&#039;s way worse than 108.<br /><br />I&#039;m not going to lie and say that moving IDL to Oda has ushered in a golden era or that it&#039;s the most fun I&#039;ve ever had in doom (honestly, the most enjoyable time for me was 2005 and 2006). While I had high hopes in the preseason, certain bugs irritated me and things played out differently. However, the experience was satisfactory and although I went berserk over a few bugs and rallied to go back to zd, I filed the bugs and sent Sean demos. I&#039;d rather bitch and have things get fixed rather than bitch endlessly (over 108). <br /><br />[quote=mikefails]I have no interest in playing on odamex either, trying to frame it out as a flawless part of the solution to a problem is just ud hype machine rollin on.[/quote]<br />I think it&#039;s pretty funny that the last time you played Odamex was in 1975 when it was being coded on a notepad.<br /><br />I think the point Ralph was making is that being banned = not being able to get your voice out to the developers. Nostar and Ladna may have been content with 108, but for how much longer? It&#039;s already been established that the shitty, buggy features would never have been fixed. Continuing to use 108 would be akin to approaching a dead end wall. As I said before, don&#039;t even suggest using 109. Also, just for the record, these bans mentioned are unjustifiable bans that span the entire ZD network (irc, forums, servers). Why use a port that&#039;s maintained by an administration that hates your guts and removes your right to voice any opinion that goes against the law? Having to put up with such nonsense makes people want to go off and do their own thing and that&#039;s exactly what a few people did. <br /><br />Yeah, I was impressed with EECS when I played it. But it&#039;s going to be about 25 years before it&#039;s off the ground and a few meters in the air.', 'xx', 1);
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	(1780, 171, 26, 1273334900, 15, 1780, 'Re: Official Server Expansion', 'ItalianStallion', 'stalliondoom@gmail.com', '76.65.88.198', 1, 0, '', 'I would rather have no alternative server, than to play on a server where people don&#039;t skip all over the place for only a couple of games throughout the season.&nbsp; It&#039;s like going from playing ZD one week, then trying to play on Skulltag for the other.&nbsp; Just having to put the effort in changing how I play/aim from one server to the other is not worth it.&nbsp; At this point I&#039;m all for [u][i]not[/i][/u] having another server to chose from.&nbsp; <br /><br />Obviously connection quality comes hand in hand with the way I play, using the ssg 99.99% of the time would have a big impact.<br />If you don&#039;t like it, you can lick my balls sir.<br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(1760, 171, 26, 1272598398, 15, 1760, 'Re: Official Server Expansion', 'ItalianStallion', 'stalliondoom@gmail.com', '76.65.88.198', 1, 0, '', 'There should be a different method to deal with server disputes.&nbsp; Rather than just settling on TT, which would favor one team over the other.&nbsp; Maybe split each round on a different server?&nbsp; Or some other method than to just go straight to TT.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(6744, 658, 22, 1336439225, 2210, 6744, 'Re: IDL Summer 2012 Signups', 'Spider', 'arconte1337@hotmail.com', '190.54.196.191', 1, 0, '', 'Name: Spider<br />Country: Chile<br />Email contact: arconte1337@hotmail.com<br />Instant Message Contact: IRC #A3 quakenet<br />Regular Availability: mostly above 17:00PM weekdays', 'xx', 1);
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	(7696, 740, 17, 1349220297, 209, 7696, 'Re: Odamex Discussion', 'AlexMax', 'alexmax2742@gmail.com', '24.74.30.216', 1, 1349221690, 'AlexMax', 'I actually think that there is a good argument to be made for predicting puffs when unlagged is turned on.<br /><br />Shots are resolved according to the client&#039;s tic (through unlagged).&nbsp; However, without clientside prediction, bullet puffs are spawned at the server&#039;s tic.&nbsp; This is fundamentally what causes weird effects like the video above where pellets are delayed and yet the player dies...or the opposite, you&#039;re leading a player too much and he walks in front of a wall that is sprayed with bullet puffs sent from the server.&nbsp; I also think there&#039;s a piece of human instinct to this.&nbsp; I think that despite knowing what is going on, when a player shoots their gun and sees their bullet puffs delayed, that instinctively tells them to start leading their shots because the &quot;cause&quot; of them firing and the &quot;effect&quot; of them firing had a delay.<br /><br />Now, of course there will be anomalies.&nbsp; Serverside unlagged is merely a prediction of what the client is seeing at that moment, and predictions can be off, which means that the client might not be totally 100% accurate in which puffs ended up on the wall and which ones ended up in the other player.&nbsp; But mispredictions are a fact of life with unlagged, it&#039;s just that seeing incorrect puffs would make those mispredictions more obvious.&nbsp; Also, serverside spawning of the puffs, as is done now, lets you know exactly how many of your puffs missed and where they ended up on the wall.&nbsp; But what good does the positions of the puffs do you when the puff positions are totally disjointed from the thing you&#039;re trying to aim at?<br /><br />[b]Please note that I am not advocating predicting blood puffs or player death.[/b]&nbsp; That should be kept as-is, because [b]that[/b] information should be reliable.&nbsp; I believe that players will be able to adjust to that by seeing their puffs land around a player and then learn to anticipate the damage sound a short time after, kind of a &quot;Okay, I know I hit him, now just wait a bit to find out if I damaged him or killed him&quot;.&nbsp; I think people care more about accurate blood puffs than pellets, since that&#039;s a good gauge of how much damage you did.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(7828, 745, 25, 1352797136, 163, 7828, 'Re: CAPO''s team this season ', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.130.30', 1, 0, '', 'Capo, I&#039;d gladly touch you. ', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(7838, 752, 25, 1353108068, 2313, 7838, 'Re: Winter 2013 Time Table', 'nub_hat', 'mikaelhhome@yahoo.dk', '93.167.8.141', 1, 0, '', 'there is an early version out named idl2013g.wad, there are a few bugs that need to be fixed for the final wad but we have been playing priv with this so far', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(8092, 786, 17, 1357598702, 2, 8092, 'Re: Real talk.', 'mikefails', 'fearedful12@yahoo.com', '24.18.104.99', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=786.msg8090#msg8090 date=1357595878]<br />You guys aren&#039;t consistent. You can try to portray me as some sort of power hungry douchebag, but I would venture a guess that almost all IDL players have had average to positive experiences with ol&#039; Ralphis compared to someone like Mikehail who&#039;s entire purpose of hanging in #idl is pretty much just to antagonize. I&#039;d definitely put money down that people have had much better mileage with me over the years compared to Dew&#039;s :)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />You aren&#039;t consistent either.&nbsp; I antagonize what, you and nautilus, IDL&#039;s resident douchebag crew?&nbsp; Why don&#039;t you ban nautilus, the guy who antagonizes every single person in the channel in a round robin format day after day?&nbsp; But wait, he is currently in the annual 2 month cycle where you and him are best buds, maybe after that&#039;s over and you realize he&#039;s an annoying moron you kicked out of UD (how many times now?) you might change your mind.&nbsp; You just regret you don&#039;t get to call the shots anymore and would rather see everything go up in smoke than give up the small bit of control you still have.&nbsp; You quit the league and informed everybody multiple times you had no hand in its running, yet now you seek to reinsert yourself in the league forcefully.&nbsp; You said bones was the man for the job, yet when his judgement disagrees with yours suddenly he&#039;s a moron and unfit to run a bucket of mud to the garden?<br /><br />Also, I antagonize you daily??&nbsp; Do you stay up at night whispering to yourself in bed recounting all the times I called you bald or called you out on your asshattery?&nbsp; Of all the players somehow its me, not chow or chaindude or shakal or x, y, or z who did it for years more before me, somehow I personify all of their disdain for you in a single person.&nbsp; Of course you antagonized me all the time too, but so far I have managed not to:&nbsp; a) piss myself over it and b) blackmail bones about you being ever so mean.&nbsp; I haven&#039;t manipulated a single person in this debacle, I told bones to do what he wants.&nbsp; Meanwhile you remind people left and right about how you did x back then and how you will quit the league if y doesn&#039;t happen now.&nbsp; You are so far gone you don&#039;t even realize what&#039;s going on anymore, all you see is my face, responsible for all evil and fell deeds occurring in the world of walphis.&nbsp;  Grow up kid, maybe that way kilgore/carnevil&#039;s voodoo curse will lose hold of you and you can return to being a normal human once more instead of following in their footsteps.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(7859, 758, 25, 1354144988, 0, 7859, 'Re: IDL Winter 2013 Signups', 'Soul Sucka', '', '177.42.0.116', 1, 0, '', 'Signing up IceDragon.<br /><br />Name: IceDragon<br />Country: Switzerland<br />Contact: IRC<br />Availability: almost every evening.<br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(8030, 777, 25, 1356435441, 2084, 8030, 'Draft Results Speculation Thread', 'EmZee712', 'Aishiteru712@yahoo.com', '69.255.100.62', 1, 1356435714, 'Shane', '[b]Killing Browns[/b] (KGB) - [i]Tai, LordBritish, Capo, Perrondon[/i]<br /><br />Oh boy, as lord behold I knew LB would be the first plucked off that free agents list and not only that but he&#039;s tag team to possibly the two players who seem to just refuse to D. Now don&#039;t get me wrong, Tai is a smart D, a pretty stable and a damned good one at that! Just that when stakes are getting a little high and he gets impatient he charges down to Mid like he just stopped giving his f&#039;s and begins mowing down players until someone slips by and gets his flag. LB who has proven time and time again that he can go head to head with as many players thrown at him, sneak his way into an enemy base, grab the flag then perform some fancy foot movements as he awaits backup to tear the competition or outsmart his pursuers. Capo, oh good god, possibly the most unstable player in the IDL this season; tell this guy to D, he&#039;ll O, tell this guy to mid, he&#039;ll O, tell this guy to O and he just frags and frags and frags. His IQ is pretty low but his aim is a beast, too bad he doesn&#039;t try to put 2 &amp; 2 together (that&#039;s Legion&#039;s field) and usually ends up just trying to plow a team down as he pleases. He&#039;s hard headed, he&#039;s stubborn, he&#039;s capo what else can you say about the guy except I need to go walk my dog now. Perro, please cease the &#039;xD&#039;.<br /><br />[b]Fnordy Niners[/b] (KNF) - [i]Strangle, ThatsJustPrime, Spider, Roscoe[/i]<br /><br />I have entirely mixed feelings about this team. Strangle making his way back to the IDL and word on the street being he&#039;s going for a mid/D role this year, however with Prime on his team that D position has been filled and the boots might be a tad big. Spider who is good on [b]zandronum[/b] he has rarely shown his face on Odamex and I fear for the worse that he might try to jump straight into the fire without throwing some water on it first, but he went from bottom to top(....Mmh semi-top) on Zandronum so hopefully he can do the same here. At last that leaves Roscoe, this guy ain&#039;t no easy pickin, he&#039;s a stable and pretty chill player, not to mention incredibly unpredictable. Grabbing this player was definitely a steal but hopefully he&#039;ll show up to games and practices to prove us all he&#039;s here to serve asses on silver platters.<br /><br />[b]Brokeback Cowboys[/b] (BC)? - [i]Tenchu, MassVC, SwiftShot, Bless[/i]<br /><br />Oh man, interesting picks here Ten. Sorry for not knowing your acronym so I&#039;ll just leave it up and await to be yelled at by superficials who like to point out my every flaw, you guys are so lovely. Tenchu himself being a old time Doom player, having his ups and downs I definitely believe he will bring his A game to the IDL this season, playing himself a offense/mid which is not to be taken lightly at all. MassVC making his comeback, working on his aim and stepping out from the shadows to overpower the competition and destroy the oppressors that dare to foil his good name. Mass switching up and working to be stone wall offense that this team could certainly use! Now theres SwiftShot, Ten made a good choice picking this guy right here, euros seem to have a knack for just showing up on Oda and fit just right in. Swift seems to impress us all with his aim, and due to backstory this guy is as versatile as it gets being a euro that can do defense, mid and even swap over to Offense all at the turn of a dime. Bless finally being the caboose of the team, I feel like he could be the underdog but it just seems he&#039;s far too used to ZDaemon pub and makes a lot of mistakes which I learned quickly that the league fixes and perfects those mistakes so that they are never made again.<br /><br />[b]We&#039;re All Doomed[/b] (WAD) - [i]Shane, RustK1ng, Bojan, Quiksilver[/i]<br /><br />I want to get one thing straight, I felt a bit nervous actually signing myself up as a captain - infact I never really wanted to captain, I absolutely hate doing it. However I want this season to work and I didn&#039;t want to bitch out just because I don&#039;t like doing something. Now that we have that out of the way, I did not approach the captain slot empty handed! Being benched the entire last season I wanted to make my impression yet again, so I went through the entire free agency list doing my research on every single player. I&#039;ve spent hours if not [b]days[/b] looking up each player, going to others for advice and observing players in priv/interviewing any possible candidates, and I&#039;m pretty satisfied with the results. Theres me, which I&#039;m not going to get into because I&#039;m not egotistical. Now I have Rust, which was a very last minute decision but I realized if I want to make it work for myself this season I&#039;m going to have to gather a versatile team so I can change up positions for appropriate maps and Rust just happened to be at the top of my picks. Rust is incredibly good at plowing through his foes and can getting into and out of bases with relative ease (and the right backup) making him the perfect mid/o to lead the charge into the fray. Then theres Bojan and before ANY of you mother fuckers go [i]oh yeah you just chose her cause you love her[/i] or something along the lines, nope. I chose Bojan because she is a LONG time DooM player, making her skill easy and accessible after a short moments of training. Bojan is a pure powerhouse, being able to pull off those magical one hit wonders taking down waves of bad guys before receiving any damage, and when she decides to play with her sound on makes her a incredibly tough defense to get past. She&#039;s quick, effective, and knows when to grab a dropped flag in mid and bring the score home to papa. Now finally theres Quiksilver, sure not many of you would appreciate the decision I made but I may know Quik a little more than you guys do. Quiksilver is incredibly versatile when it comes to offense, he can change strategies and keep his opponents guessing everytime he makes a appearance. Not only that but he&#039;s sick with a ssg, is also quick and efficient making him another effective mid/o and with the right kind of practice could just give this team the leverage it needs to overcome their obstacles.<br /><br />[b]Super Chargers[/b] (SUC) - [i]Ralphis, turSKA, Nautilus, Dr. Sean[/i]<br /><br />Man, Ralphis. What else can I say about the guy, other than the fact I wish he&#039;d go away so I didn&#039;t have to deal with him chillin in my base whilst I go cat and mouse one of his runners as he awaits to steal my flag and run past me without my knowledge. turSKA I haven&#039;t seen too much of, but I do know he&#039;s an amazing european offense player, and the few times I caught him in ZDaemon pub he seemed to have an amazing grip on what was going on around him to elude even the smartest players. Oh boy, Nautilus, everyone appears to have a problem with a guy, I don&#039;t. Sure he&#039;s got a ego that could probably put Jenova&#039;s to shame but atleast he can step up his game to prove it if he so wishes. A nice little powerhouse that Ralph definitely needs when he wants to just zombie run his way out and make that cheap and easy score as I&#039;ve seen multiple times in priv. Last we&#039;re left with Dr. Sean, he&#039;s certainly changed I can say that, atleast he can frag better with what was left of the 3rd round and even some of the 2nd round, pretty solid pick if I do say so myself.<br /><br />[b]Berserker Packers[/b] (BSK) - [i]Antlint, Fluffles, Dragon, Decay[/i]<br /><br />Oh sweet, Soul stepping it up this season and plucking himself a couple of obscure players with hidden strength. Soul himself being versatile as it can get, playing any position he wants and having a sizzling aim to boot even with his 200 ping brazillian string and wire internet. Fluffles that one euro we all just know, who has the right kind of aim and smarts to alternate between a mid or offense. With Dragon, he&#039;s definitely not one to take lightly, he may not be the smartest offense but his aim makes up well for his running as he can clear a room, steal the flag and keep the respawns down long enough to make his clean getaway. Props to SoulSucka for having a go with Decay, this guy has been looking for a chance to better himself in hopes of becoming a good competitive player and so far he hasn&#039;t done much disappointment whatsoever, hopefully he can work his way up and solidify himself as the perfect 3rd pick.<br /><br />[b]Sexual Panthers[/b] (SXP) - [i]HumanBones, DevastatioN, HeX9109, Rude (allday)[/i]<br /><br />HumanBones sure had a good idea on what he was doing, being the incredible defense that he is, he chose players that specifically complimented to his playing style. I wanted DevastatioN, I even went so far as sending a E-Mail to him to interview who he was so I could pin-point what players I wanted for my team... Never got one back. But thats all done, and from what I&#039;ve heard he&#039;s a pretty solid offense giving Bones the relief that he doesn&#039;t have to run out every 2 minutes to cover the runner. Hex9109 sure is more than meets the eye, as of late he has sure put my money where my mouth is and keeps improving his aim and versatility making this man here a incredibly solid pick especially since all he plays is Odamex, definitely going to prove a challenge when he&#039;s set to mid. Rude, not much to say but the guy sure can frag, and he&#039;s not as mindless and stupid as some of the other zdaemon players that come straight out of pub. I certainly do feel uneasy facing this team as my first game, but I&#039;m keeping my hopes up.<br /><br />[b]Boxers and Dooming[/b] (B&amp;D)? - [i]Legion, Reck, dewww, Beast[/i]<br /><br />After I&#039;ve butchered your acronym, time to butcher up your team as well. Legion&#039;s back, taking the reigns of another team and looking to fill the league with the blood of his enemies. Legion&#039;s a terrific mid, as well as a versatile offense he certainly has what it takes to carry a team if his back is against the wall and the shots are gettin a bit heavy. Of course if he&#039;s taking too many hits, here comes Reck trotting along to exert his mexican rage out and mow everyone down with his quick and effective shots. What I used to remember of Reck he used to be a offense, now he&#039;s trying his luck as a defender and a mid player props to him because he&#039;s doing pretty damn good so far so I definitely see him as a sweet contender on the field. Legion (I assume pulling a ralph this year) and taking Dew to play as his offense, while Dew works his way in Legion will be running around shooting up the base trying to create the largest distraction he can making any possible route as safe as he can so that Dew won&#039;t have much trouble running back home for a score. Leaving us with Beast to close the entire draft picks for the season, hate to see this guy in last place but I&#039;ve never got to see him work in CTF so I&#039;m guessing there is a reason why he wasn&#039;t exactly grabbed as soon as possible. I&#039;ve done my research on him and I do hear he has a lot of real life responsibilities that require his full attention, I hope this doesn&#039;t later play a big role for his games, but I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if he came up only to hail vengeance upon the rest of the league and steal that mb championship. Cheers though to Legion, atleast he took players that aren&#039;t completely useless.<br /><br />[i]Wow that was a lot, then again I&#039;m bored and looking for any reason not to map or sleep. What a sad existence I seem to be leading right now.[/i]', 'xx', 1);
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	(5882, 579, 20, 1326317398, 216, 5882, 'Re: Post Demos Here', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '174.89.171.102', 1, 0, '', 'W2012 Week one: http://speedy.sh/PpxRN/BBCvsTCB-PrimePOV-idl2012-zvox2.108.zdo<br /><br />S2011 MB: http://speedy.sh/tF5Rn/masterbowl.zdo<br /><br />S011 Playoffs Round 2: http://speedy.sh/FjRWc/BBC-v-SPE-playoffs-round-2-Prime-POV-2011-08-25-180312-idl2011.108.zdo<br /><br />S011 Playoffs Round 1: http://speedy.sh/BseMu/SXP-v-BBC-playoffs-round-one-2011-08-21-200236-idl2011.108.zdo', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5891, 581, 17, 1326351536, 61, 5891, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'Chain', 'luis_miguelito_@hotmail.com', '97.87.60.161', 1, 0, '', 'Jamie why didn&#039;t you just do all this writing in high school? Ugh.<br /><br />Also we need a new version anyway, because team names are different and we absolutely [b]must[/b] reflect the new team logos in the intermission image. &gt;:(', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6191, 573, 17, 1328913425, 75, 6191, 'Re: Spectator Spot Disputes', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=573.msg6188#msg6188 date=1328910200]<br />Unfortunately it will remain a problem until we get better clients/servers/tech.[/quote]<br />well, we&#039;ve been using rottking&#039;s awesome streams and kicking people to get him in all this season until now, but thanks for informing us it is futile and the problem cannot be solved. rott will be fired and/or banned from idl servers immediatelly.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6417, 624, 20, 1331156647, 163, 6417, 'Re: Regular Season Awards Discussion', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.34.209.72', 1, 0, '', '[quote=&quot;nostar&quot;]I don&#039;t personally think Hate is a good captain..[/quote]<br />[quote=&quot;nostar&quot;]Captaining = picking well, game planning well and practicing. Hate did all of those things better than anyone else..[/quote]<br /><br />lol&nbsp; :D<br /><br />[quote=&quot;dew&quot;]typical dew rage[/quote]<br /><br />The only reason why I gave him [b]breakout player of the year award[/b] was because he had his best statistical season ever. <br />For someone who has never ran an entire season, I had 47 total captures while still having a forfeit victory. Our team didn&#039;t play very many rounds in general, most were 2-0 wins. I also didn&#039;t need him to suicide in front of flags to give me caps, he raped in mid enough so he didn&#039;t have to go for many - with his presence, all I had to do was grab, run and go. So yes, with his statistical breakout as well as him being the engine that has made our train go, I would easily award this to him. <br /><br />As far as lumping categories together, I&#039;ll explain:<br /><br />We&#039;re not lumping him with rookies, if you look back, Ralph suggested to remove the &quot;rookie of the year&quot; and treat it more like break out player of the year. This is his exact quote:<br /><br />[quote=&quot;Ralphis&quot;]Instead of rookie of the year, an award like &quot;Breakout Player of the Year&quot; would probably better suit the IDL[/quote] <br /><br />And it can be found here: http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=565.0<br /><br />So yes, I still labeled the rookie of the year category with it so people wouldn&#039;t necessarily exclude a strong rookie. I also wouldn&#039;t give it to Del because he only played in a few games. I&#039;d like to see a larger body of work before I&#039;m convinced (though I think the kid has the potential to be an allstar). So in short Dew, that&#039;s why I put them together because this season didn&#039;t have many rookies anyway (any who started that is) and people who&#039;ve never had strong statistical seasons then come out of nowhere to have them should be mentioned. <br /><br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6719, 655, 22, 1335796437, 147, 6719, 'Re: Summer 2012 Changes', 'LordBritish', 'a_west_2007@hotmail.com', '141.110.189.29', 1, 0, '', 'Goodbye IDL, I won&#039;t miss you at all (unless you change irc networks too)', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6208, 606, 17, 1329044587, 75, 6208, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'rust, you know how there&#039;s that VER_10800 folder in your 109 dir? guess what it does when you join a 108 server! you really can&#039;t use 109 for demo recording yet.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6745, 655, 22, 1336451874, 2084, 6745, 'Re: Summer 2012 Changes', 'EmZee712', 'Aishiteru712@yahoo.com', '98.218.137.45', 1, 0, '', 'Even though it saddens me to have to switch ports and get used to new gameplay and configurations. Atleast this year I will actually participate in IDL, unlike last season where I completely forgot I can register, and the IDL is taking place somewhere where we don&#039;t have to hide like homos in a closet.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7652, 731, 22, 1348690379, 145, 7652, 'Re: Season 12 / Summer 2012 - MASTERBOWL XII - Discussion and Results', 'Fluffles', 'petefredericknewton@hotmail.co.uk', '86.184.24.204', 1, 0, '', 'WADs perfect season, good job!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7697, 740, 17, 1349221831, 2271, 7697, 'Re: Odamex Discussion', 'Dr. Sean', 'grandpachuck187@gmail.com', '69.62.135.164', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ladna link=topic=740.msg7691#msg7691 date=1349149615]<br />Are predicted puffs/blood planned?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Let&#039;s say that I&#039;m taking an interest in predicted puffs but nothing is planned or promised... I&#039;m certainly not sold 100% on putting them into Odamex and if I do include them, it will probably be an opt-in cvar. But it looks like an interesting side project for me to play around with.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7829, 758, 25, 1352810911, 2283, 7829, 'Re: IDL Winter 2013 Signups', 'DevilutioN', 'balorr@hotmail.com', '144.137.5.6', 1, 0, '', 'Name: Blue Devil<br />Country: Australia<br />IM Contact: QuakeNet #idl #odamex<br />Availability: Most days except Tuesdays (Australian EST)', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7839, 752, 25, 1353138385, 17, 7839, 'Re: Winter 2013 Time Table', 'MionicDonut', 'Sparx7300@yahoo.com', '131.156.137.37', 1, 0, '', 'Yeah, thats the one I&#039;ve seen floating around but, again, I can&#039;t download it unless I have access to priv, something I cant within the realm of practicality, obtain.<br /><br />I suppose my idle curiosity will have to wait.&nbsp; No matter.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8093, 786, 17, 1357600952, 75, 8093, 'Re: Real talk.', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'ralph, i may be a drunk emotional wreck who flails his power around #idl, but at least i&#039;ve never shat on a decade old friendship just because of absurd sense of butthurt and paranoia.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8208, 805, 25, 1359675090, 8, 8208, 'DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'The following is a list of each player and any relevant demo infractions. As infractions occur, they will be posted to this thread.<br /><br />The following penalties exist for each infraction:<br /><br />[list]<br />[li][b]First Infraction[/b]: Three minute power play.[/li]<br />[li][b]Second Infraction[/b]: Player is suspended for one round of play.[/li]<br />[li][b]Third Infraction[/b]: Player is ejected from the league.[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />[size=5][b]Berserker Packers[/b][/size]<br />[size=4]Antlint[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Fluffles[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Dragon[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Decay[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />[size=5][b]Killing Browns[/b][/size]<br />[size=4]Tai[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]Week 4 vs BSK[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]LordBritish[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Capodecima[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Perrondon[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />[size=5][b]Super Chargers[/b][/size]<br />[size=4]Ralphis[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]TurSKA[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Nautilus[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Dr. Sean[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />[size=5][b]We&#039;re All Doomed[/b][/size]<br />[size=4]Shane[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Ru5tK1ng[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Mass[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]ShadowStalker[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />[size=5][b]Boxers and Dooming[/b][/size]<br />[size=4]Legion[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Reckless[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Dew[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Bless[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />[size=5][b]Sexual Panthers[/b][/size]<br />[size=4]HumanBones[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]DevastatioN[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]HeX9109[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Rude[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />[size=5][b]Brokeback Cowboys[/b][/size]<br />[size=4]Thevarian[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Joshsmith[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Beast[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Bojan[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />[size=5][b]Fnordy Niners[/b][/size]<br />[size=4]Strangle[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]ThatsJustPrime[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Spider[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Nub_Hat[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />[color=green][size=5][b]Free Agents[/b][/size][/color]<br />[size=4]Dawsonation[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]DevilutioN[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]IceDragon[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Lord_Draikus[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]ModeneseAdriano[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Necro_Kid[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]<br />[size=4]Quiksilver[/size]<br />[list]<br />[li]No Infractions[/li]<br />[/list]', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8377, 827, 17, 1360868322, 15, 8377, 'Re: Someone else quits', 'ItalianStallion', 'stalliondoom@gmail.com', '216.246.246.103', 1, 0, '', 'Rust, it&#039;s not the fact that they quit.&nbsp; It&#039;s the reason and the way they carried out with it.&nbsp; Ten had legitimate reasons, and did what was best at the time not to make it much of a problem.&nbsp; This is 5 weeks into the league, and he didn&#039;t say a word to anyone.&nbsp; He is a captain, and above all an IDL Board member.&nbsp; If you&#039;re in the board, and accepted the role, you should at least have the respect to the IDL and HumanBones to carry out your commitments.&nbsp; The only reason I can come up with why he quit is because he&#039;s bad and can&#039;t win games.&nbsp; It&#039;s unfortunate that new players come in, are given a golden opportunity to play, and be apart of the league just to throw it back in our faces because they aren&#039;t good enough.&nbsp; <br /><br />Also I find it pretty cute how Mobius is just here defending his boyfriend.&nbsp; If you had any respect for him you&#039;d have him speak for himself.&nbsp; ', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5883, 575, 20, 1326325612, 30, 5883, 'Re: ChaosCore Servers I2 Priority Traffic', 'Beast', 'kjolly@uwm.edu', '24.209.160.160', 1, 0, '', 'Make sure you make her cum....BOT<br /><br />I added the latest wad &#039;idl2012.wad&#039; ', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5892, 581, 17, 1326352581, 2, 5892, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'mikefails', 'fearedful12@yahoo.com', '24.18.104.99', 1, 0, '', 'It would be so much easier to understand the point of view presented here if it didn&#039;t include wild accusations and rumors that I still cannot determine the origin of.&nbsp; My suspicion is that the source of most of these false rumors are jenova as i do not recall any of these &quot;votes&quot; which were said to have taken place and I am pretty good at backchecking logs if I miss board activity (I suppose its possible I was there and voted against these things and lost and simply forgot about it afterwards).&nbsp; You guys need to all chill out in a big way as the amount of mindless drivel being spouted off makes it rather difficult to focus on the actual issues at hand and clouds the issues even further than they already are.&nbsp; Additionally, I don&#039;t even know how some of these issues came to be. 6 spawns on map28?&nbsp; I was never in favor of that, from the looks of the poll the majority of the community was not in favor of it, and I feel pretty confident saying at least 2 other board members were also opposed to this change.&nbsp; Maybe I am wrong or maybe this was just part of ralphis&#039; unauthorized changes to the wad which seem to be causing all this trouble?&nbsp; I haven&#039;t heard a concrete story from anybody yet, probably because mass is busy trying to fix the wad or with grad school or whatever.<br /><br />TL;DR<br />Chill out or volunteer to help out and make the process move along faster.&nbsp; We all try to dedicate as much of our time as we can to this and sometimes we simply don&#039;t have enough available.&nbsp; Be a champ contribute.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6192, 604, 20, 1328917702, 8, 6192, 'Re: Week 6 (FEB 6 - FEB 12) : ZDCTF02 (MAP02) - Discussion and Results', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'Hello. This post was making me smile 10 minutes before I had to post it. Just a little clarification regarding the second edition of the toilet bowl (PBH vs RRS) that will occur tomorrow at 7pm. It&#039;s a little bit confusing so please bear with me.<br /><br />I&#039;ll start with RRS. Mass has his second demo penalty, which means that RRS will be down a player for the entirety of Round 1 no matter what happens. PBH has a demo AND a scheduling infraction. They will start two players down. A player on PBH will join one at a time after every RRS score OR they will join when the 3 minutes is up. <br /><br />Let&#039;s clarify the clarification. Round 1 will start 2v1. RRS will have two players, PBH will have one. If RRS scores a flag, one member of PBH will join. If they score another, the second PBH player will join. If RRS doesn&#039;t score or only scores one flag after 3 minutes, all of PBH will join the game and Round 1 will finish as a 2v3. Round 2 and any subsequent rounds will be played as a 3v3.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4909, 517, 17, 1317951042, 163, 4909, 'Re: The Draft', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.27.208', 1, 0, '', 'If a good percentage of last season&#039;s captains come back, why not just stick with the old system? ', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7186, 699, 22, 1342939660, 1328, 7186, 'Re: WEEK 3 - MAP15 ZDCTF15 (JUL 16 - JUL 22) - Discussion and Results', 'Mobius', 'hustler_0ne@hotmail.com', '67.4.168.49', 1, 0, '', 'He is the yoda of Doom', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6720, 657, 17, 1335805596, 19, 6720, 'Re: Change', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.229.76', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Hatred link=topic=654.msg6718#msg6718 date=1335768298]<br />Also, can someone make zvox work on Oda so we don&#039;t have to get used to that blasted quake announcer???<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I looked at the announcer files a week ago, and it appears as though the structure is different from &lt;TEAM COLOR&gt; has &lt;ACTION&gt;. Instead of &#039;blue flag taken&#039;, it is more like &#039;the enemy has your flag&#039;. zvox would not work in this environment. Perhaps the IDL&#039;s vocal talent could be persuaded to create an announcer package? If I remember right it&#039;s less than 10 files to voice.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6418, 622, 17, 1331157496, 163, 6418, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.34.209.72', 1, 0, '', 'Have [b]you[/b] lived under a rock the past [b]two years[/b]???<br />Skulltag coop is way better. It can run almost any wad (something even ZDaemon 1.09 can&#039;t do), it supports more mapping programs (dehack etc), it introduced coop waves, pk3s (something ZDaemon still can&#039;t run&nbsp; :D) and just feels much better. I was thrilled when ZDaemon added survival as a mode but it&#039;s still far behind what ST is able to do. <br /><br />Since you love Whiteboy so much and used his word as proof of ProCTF&#039;s awesomeness, why don&#039;t you ask him about ST coop, too. He, like many other avid coop/survival players in the IDL community, will tell you Skulltag coop is ten times better than ZDaemon coop. ', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6746, 660, 22, 1336466606, 163, 6746, 'Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.18.47.189', 1, 0, '', 'The topic really says it all. If you consider yourself a competitive doom player, a mere change of ports shouldn&#039;t stop you from doing what you love. And what you love is the IDL. <br /><br /><br />You might not agree with the politics of the move, you might not even like Odamex but ask yourself this: how much longer were we going to continue on an outdated version of a port that wants nothing to do with us publicly? While Odamex will be a few steps back in a few regards, I think our little version of the Great Migration is a massive step forward long-term. And the small steps back are mostly those around getting used to a new port and small potential bugs we might encounter (trust me, hundreds have been ironed out in the last month so that&#039;s hardly a real issue).<br /><br />I will dedicate this sentence to everyone&#039;s favorite villain: Nostar.<br /><br />Nostar, we want you back. While there&#039;s certainly no fanbase wanting you to sign their shirts or kiss their babies, you&#039;re one of the greatest IDL players of all time. You&#039;re also a huge heal; everyone wants to beat you and people literally sign up just to do it. I don&#039;t know what your stance is on Odamex and the migration but I think if you have the time to play, you definitely should. <br /><br />This one goes to Chewy:<br /><br />Come back. You&#039;ve come out of being dead before so please do it again. I have a ridiculous amount of hot dogs waiting for you if you do. <br /><br />To mikehail:<br /><br />Come back. You played league for like 2 days and somehow went like 16-1 with a support Alistar. You adjusted well to a new game, it&#039;s not outrageous to think you can&#039;t do it with a new port of a game you have tons of experience in!<br /><br />Lordbitchtits:<br /><br />Dude, I like Merk and all but I really don&#039;t want him to be the other Ohioan I can relate to in the IDL. Do me a favor and please realize most bowlers die at 30 and give it a rest. The IDL wants you and needs you. <br /><br />Ladna:<br /><br />It&#039;s not the IDL if the beard isn&#039;t there.<br /><br />Jenova:<br /><br />I&#039;m at least pretty sure Jenova somehow found a way to at least somehow be better than Jenova. I know you are roughly 50/50 but if you don&#039;t sign up, I&#039;m flying up to Canada and fucking you. I&#039;ll also fuck your cat and kill it if you don&#039;t sign up. <br /><br />JKist3:<br /><br />Do you even play doom anymore? Sign up!<br /><br />Envy, assuming you haven&#039;t died of AIDS yet from all the bitches you fuck, you should make a come back. <br /><br />Wrath, I think this one is rather funny. Apparently he played in the IDL once? He was my former clan leader and I miss the gaze in his eyes when he&#039;d see a child. He probably won&#039;t ever read this but why the fuck not, right?<br /><br />DUI, at least quit playing WoW and get with the times: IDL or League. Don&#039;t worry, Eyes can&#039;t steal your gold in either. <br /><br />Shakums: dude, our master plan of getting you into horrible doom shape by getting addicted to league during conf. finals worked. I know it would be highly audacious to ask you to return under those circumstances but I am a dick after all. So come back, SHAK. <br /><br />Cha0tix: <br /><br />Dude, you appeared for like 2 months then died. wtf??? play again.<br /><br />Xenaero,<br /><br />Assuming your rage has finally subsided, I am going to request you play again. This time, you&#039;ll have a port that even 450ms shots are highly possible. Basically, next time I play you, I will not be able to defeat you with DDoS alone. <br /><br />To everyone else:<br /><br />Quit being a bitch. Sign up! Odamex is the shit!&nbsp; ', 'xx', 1);
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	(7698, 740, 17, 1349242397, 7, 7698, 'Re: Odamex Discussion', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '199.180.105.70', 1, 0, '', 'Yeah, optional is the way to go I think.&nbsp; It&#039;s worth noting that with RNG sync, prediction will be right like 99.99999999% of the time, and the worst case scenario is putting a puff/blood where there would&#039;ve been a blood/puff.<br /><br />Predicting deaths is a different thing, although personally as a player I would like it and would enable it.&nbsp; Again, the worst thing that happens is someone is showing someone alive/dead when they&#039;re actually dead/alive, and that&#039;s pretty easy to correct.<br /><br />I can understand the argument for [b]not enabling[/b] it, but I&#039;m not sure there&#039;s a strong case against it as an option.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7840, 752, 25, 1353170964, 8, 7840, 'Re: Winter 2013 Time Table', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'A new version is ready, I&#039;m just waiting for it to be sent to me and then I&#039;ll post it here. No point in posting an outdated version!', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(8094, 786, 17, 1357601305, 10, 8094, 'Re: Real talk.', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.132.74', 1, 0, '', 'That&#039;s life sometimes homes', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(8209, 805, 25, 1359675122, 8, 8209, 'Re: DEMO INFRACTION LISTING', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', '[b]Killing Browns (KGB)[/b]<br />Tai - 3 minute power play enforced against BSK (Week 4)', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4930, 517, 17, 1318096758, 19, 4930, 'Re: The Draft', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.183.245', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=511.msg4904#msg4904 date=1317929386]<br />Has anyone ever found any correlation between draft position and success while taking &quot;captain skill&quot; (hard to quantify) into account? Is there any proof of what system is better than another?<br /><br />In lieu of such information, I say keep the original system! It worked fine for years and produced teams that were competitive throughout the entire draft. Sometimes things don&#039;t have to be changed for the sake of being cute<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Pretty much what I was going to say. There&#039;s too many shifting circumstances and variables to go ahead and say: &quot;This is how it works and it&#039;s not working more often than it is working so let&#039;s change it&quot;, because there&#039;s very few static connections you could draw statistics from. As it stands the order of the draft picks I feel can be consequential but at the same time there has been a history of captains who make those picks work, and work very well.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4976, 517, 17, 1318441565, 10, 4976, 'Re: The Draft', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '64.141.192.13', 1, 0, '', 'So what then is your ultimate proposal? Lay it out!<br /><br />I am not saying you are endorsing a straight draft, but even though you mentioned it, I will offer my input on that. Implementing a straight draft is only going to kill late drafting captains even more because most top players will no longer have any incentive at all of ever captaining if they are at the bottom. Why would they take a spot on what will undoubtedly be one of the weakest rosters when they can be #1-#4 overall with the #13-#16 as their third?<br /><br />What solution do you propose that is an improvement on the current system that doesn&#039;t result in the league heavily imposing their own rankings on draft selection?', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4974, 517, 17, 1318436990, 213, 4974, 'Re: The Draft', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=511.msg4935#msg4935 date=1318219415]The elite captains will always win no matter where they draft. The current system gives the other guys a fighting chance.[/quote]<br /><br />That is a contradiction.&nbsp; The other guys don&#039;t have a fighting chance if the elite captains will [i]always[/i] win.<br /><br />[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=511.msg4941#msg4941 date=1318288205]Don&#039;t confuse above average players with great or elite, they make a huge difference![/quote]<br /><br /> ::)<br /><br />Anyways.<br /><br />Obviously, more skilled captains compose better teams because they constitute 33% of their playing roster.&nbsp; I agree with Ralphis and Gilgamesh (and others) on that.&nbsp; However, I can do something to make elite captains lose.&nbsp; I can give them a crippling handicap.&nbsp; You are going to respond, &quot;But that is wrong!&quot;&nbsp; And it may be, but this discussion doesn&#039;t seem to be about what is right or wrong, but what is possible.&nbsp; (Actually, it was about where to insert new captains in the draft.)<br /><br />Even though Gilgamesh&#039;s data looks to be more relevant to the current climate of IDL, and it clearly shows the trend that late picks are better than early picks, I also agree that there isn&#039;t enough data to draw conclusions of even moderate confidence.&nbsp; I agree with Xenaero and Ralphis (and others) on that.&nbsp; However, not all inferences are inductive.&nbsp; For example, I can definitely say (to Ladna) that the first spot in a straight draft is better than the last spot in a straight draft.&nbsp; I don&#039;t need empirical data to support this.&nbsp; It is deductively reasonable that draft picks #1 and #13 will be better than picks #12 and #24.&nbsp; In the same way, I can say that the first pick of a straight draft is better than both the first and last picks of a snake draft, and both of those are better than the last pick of a straight draft.&nbsp; (I would consider that pick to be a crippling handicap.)&nbsp; So a different draft spot can affect a team&#039;s quality, although maybe not in a snake draft.&nbsp; The fact that we can&#039;t determine whether early or late picks are better, is evidence that a snake draft succeeds in doing little to compensate for captain quality (or previous season record, or whatever), whether this is a good thing or not.<br /><br />To go back to the contradiction:&nbsp; If the elite captains always win, then the other guys don&#039;t have a fighting chance.&nbsp; I believe this is what the current system accomplishes.&nbsp; If this is fine with us, then fine.&nbsp; We are happy.&nbsp; If, on the other hand, we want the other guys to have a fighting chance, the elite captains can&#039;t always win.&nbsp; That can be arranged, first of all by amending the draft. (I am not saying [here] that we should, just that it is indeed possible.) If that is wrong, then fine.&nbsp; We won&#039;t do it.&nbsp; But the fighting guys don&#039;t have a chance.&nbsp; You can&#039;t have it both ways.<br /><br /><br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(7835, 758, 25, 1352937287, 235, 7835, 'Re: IDL Winter 2013 Signups', 'Godsdoomer', 'sean20202@hotmail.com', '98.217.93.72', 1, 0, '', 'IDL-r ; the future of the IDL.<br />Guess ill give it another shot.<br /><br />Name: Godsdoomer<br />Country/State: USA<br />Email Contact: shawn20202@gmail.com<br />IM Contact: yea <br />Regular Availability: Most evenings and stuff', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4934, 517, 17, 1318217424, 7, 4967, 'Re: The Draft', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '65.214.200.140', 1, 1318363920, 'Ladna', 'I actually went through all the trouble of making a spreadsheet of draft positions &amp; captain records from Season 5 onwards.&nbsp; The data shows that [b][color=red]draft position has little if any effect on team performance[/color][/b] (what now MassVC?!?!).&nbsp; Strong captains will win, weak ones will lose, and draft position can&#039;t possibly do enough to change that.<br /><br />That said, there&#039;s no reason not to avoid things that are obviously bad ideas (as far as league parity is concerned), like giving the captain who won the last MasterBowl 1st pick, etc. etc.&nbsp; But it really doesn&#039;t deserve the amount of attention its gotten these last couple seasons.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4940, 517, 17, 1318287447, 216, 4940, 'Re: The Draft', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '174.92.60.248', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Gilgamesh link=topic=511.msg4937#msg4937 date=1318230861]<br />So in the old 12-team era, it would appear the first picks (1-4) in the draft ended up doing better overall.&nbsp; But now in this new 12-team era: the last picks (9-12) seem to be doing better overall, middle picks (5-8) turn out average, and the first picks (1-4) did worse.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />IMO this is because of the jump in skill that happened early in the second round the past two seasons. For the past two seasons, it hasn&#039;t been possible to get two elite players in the first/ second rounds due to the lack of sign ups.<br /><br />[quote author=Gilgamesh link=topic=511.msg4937#msg4937 date=1318230861]<br /><br />[b]Teams that scored .668-1.000: 9[/b] (25.0%)&nbsp; &nbsp;  [color=red][b]6[/b] (25.0%)[/color]<br />Picked at 1-4: 4 (44.4%)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;  [color=red]1 (16.7%)[/color]<br />Picked at 5-8: 4 (44.4%)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;  [color=red]0 (0.0%)[/color]<br />Picked at 9-12: 1 (11.1%)&nbsp; &nbsp;  [color=red]5 (83.3%)[/color]<br /><br />[b]Teams that scored .334-.667: 16[/b] (44.4%)&nbsp; &nbsp; [color=red]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I am that 16.7 % :D', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6721, 655, 22, 1335805948, 145, 6721, 'Re: Summer 2012 Changes', 'Fluffles', 'petefredericknewton@hotmail.co.uk', '86.183.131.251', 1, 0, '', 'Will the odamex servers be hidden like the zdaemon ones?', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5893, 579, 20, 1326352756, 141, 5893, 'Re: Post Demos Here', 'X-Ray', 'jake.281@hotmail.com', '69.125.115.130', 1, 0, '', 'http://speedy.sh/tFxFn/2012.01.08-22.02.26-idl2012.zvox2.108.zdo<br /> <br />Week 1 vs BBC', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6193, 604, 20, 1328918051, 213, 6193, 'Re: Week 6 (FEB 6 - FEB 12) : ZDCTF02 (MAP02) - Discussion and Results', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', 'Can we play it on the (toilet)bowlmap?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5312, 532, 17, 1321004907, 0, 5312, 'Re: A CTF Guide For The New Guys', 'capodecima', '', '90.179.151.60', 1, 0, '', 'Tai left D ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6747, 660, 22, 1336485118, 19, 6747, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.227.74', 1, 0, '', '10 years of competitive activity in anything is a considerable length of time. Odamex is a great port, but I&#039;ve retired, so I don&#039;t consider myself a competitive player anymore. I might be in privs here and there when time allows.<br /><br />It wasn&#039;t a port change that stopped me from playing competitively. Since retiring I&#039;ve been in a much better place. Good luck to all participants in the upcoming season! :)', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7841, 758, 25, 1353174682, 23, 7841, 'Re: IDL Winter 2013 Signups', 'Nautilus', 'knotilus@myway.com', '108.56.44.230', 1, 0, '', 'Name: Nautilus<br />Country/State: DC, USA<br />Instant Message Contact: IRC<br />Regular Availability: 9:30 PM every night', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4935, 517, 17, 1318219415, 10, 4935, 'Re: The Draft', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 0, '', 'On top of what Ladna just added, I also did a [url=http://ralphis.unidoom.org/stuff/idl/draft_research.htm]12-team draft analysis some seasons ago[/url]. If you split up the draft in a way that it is represented as picks 1-4 as top, 5-8 as middle, and 9-12 as bottom you will see that the selected data breaks down as so:<br /><br />[b]Teams that scored .668-1.000: 9[/b] (25.0%)<br />Picked at 1-4: 4 (44.4%)<br />Picked at 5-8: 4 (44.4%)<br />Picked at 9-12: 1 (11.1%)<br /><br />[b]Teams that scored .334-.667: 16[/b] (44.4%)<br />Picked at 1-4: 6 (37.5%)<br />Picked at 5-8: 5 (31.3%)<br />Picked at 9-12: 5 (31.3%)<br /><br />[b]Teams that scored .000-.333: 11[/b] (30.6%)<br />Picked at 1-4: 2 (18.2%)<br />Picked at 5-8: 3 (27.3%)<br />Picked at 9-12: 6 (54.5%)<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />As you can see, at the time captains who picked in the bottom half of the snake draft rarely ever did well. As a matter of fact, [u]only once did a team that drafted in the bottom 4 spots ever post an elite record[/u]. However, late picks dominated over half of the bottom dwelling teams in this time frame.<br /><br />[b]There is a misnomer that late draft spots in the snake draft are more valuable to players than early ones due to closer skill distribution and, as you can see, that was not the case at all. [u]It is quality of captain[/u].[/b]<br /><br />What the current system does is adjust for this. It ensures that elite captains who dominate every season will often get late first round picks. I have not compiled any data on this over the past three non-franchise seasons but I would love to see how the recent 24 teams compare against the 36 from seasons 2-4, even if there isn&#039;t a ton of data there.<br /><br />Ultimately, I think that the system works and that the board is going to try and make changes just for the sake of making changes and/or implementing kistian rank methods, not because they are the best decisions.<br /><br />The elite captains will always win no matter where they draft. The current system gives the other guys a fighting chance.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4923, 517, 17, 1318025512, 75, 4923, 'Re: The Draft', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=MassVC link=topic=511.msg4919#msg4919 date=1318016657]<br />I don&#039;t think the current system doesn&#039;t work, but I&#039;m doubtful that it&#039;s the best possible system, mainly because I haven&#039;t heard any arguments that it is.&nbsp; In that case there is a better system, and we should use that system instead, not because it&#039;s [b]cute[/b], but because it&#039;s [b]better[/b].<br />[/quote]<br />you are making assumptions based on lack of evidence. while i commend you on your attempts to find a better system, you need to parade this system in front of us and tell us why it&#039;s better than the current one, because the burden of proof lies on you (as the legislator who wants a change).<br /><br />all the arguments against the current system, at least all i can remember, were tainted by comparing it against seasons with smaller cap turnover.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4922, 517, 17, 1318019134, 7, 4922, 'Re: The Draft', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=dew link=topic=511.msg4913#msg4913 date=1317981826]<br />it&#039;s also kinda hilarious how people have a magical cure for everything - equally skilled, dedicated and responsible caps (and booting strangle to achieve that), when it&#039;s pretty obvious we&#039;ll struggle to find 12 candidates at least as good as strangle.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I went out of my way to not insinuate anything about &quot;captain skill&quot;, dismissing captains, Strangle, etc. etc., and I&#039;m pretty disappointed that you chose to try and derail this thread.<br /><br />I direct you (and those wishing to comment further on &quot;Better Captains&quot; in general) to [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=514.0]this thread[/url].<br /><br />Thanks everyone for your thoughts so far, keep &#039;em coming!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6727, 657, 17, 1335821045, 7, 6727, 'Re: Odamex Announcer', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '71.46.99.75', 1, 0, '', 'ZDaemon uses an Unreal-style announcer, so you get stuff like:<br /><br />&quot;Red Flag Taken&quot;<br />&quot;Blue Flag Taken&quot;<br /><br />This is nice and simple because it doesn&#039;t change based on what team you&#039;re on.<br /><br />Odamex uses a Quake-style announcer, so their events are like:<br /><br />&quot;The Enemy Has Your Flag&quot;<br />&quot;Your Team Scores&quot;<br /><br />Like Xenaero says, it&#039;s a fundamental difference in how announcer events are handled.&nbsp; It&#039;s not a big deal code-wise, but it&#039;s not as simple as cooking up a new WAD.<br /><br />You can probably come up with different phrases or whatever, that might work.&nbsp; I&#039;m just saying the fundamental event structure is different.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4919, 517, 17, 1318016657, 213, 4919, 'Re: The Draft', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', 'Until it is clear that high picks are better than low picks in this draft, I don&#039;t see anything wrong with LB going #2 or Clim going #12; in fact, that system is probably for the best.&nbsp; With a straighter draft or the implementation of spot-picking, I do.<br /><br />Hatred, what would be a good percentage?<br /><br />Ralphis, presumably looking across different seasons will account for this because there will be different caps in each draft spot.&nbsp; Of course, we have very little empirical evidence as this is a relatively small and short-lived league.&nbsp; In lieu of that, our best option is to rely on rational reasoning as evidence to guide our decisions (rather than no sort of evidence at all).&nbsp; But even if we had all the evidence, I don&#039;t know what you think would constitute one system being better than another.&nbsp; If better means &quot;more random&quot; or &quot;more even,&quot; then we can absolutely construct better systems than the current one.&nbsp; If better means &quot;more like the system we have now,&quot; then we can&#039;t.<br /><br />I don&#039;t think the current system doesn&#039;t work, but I&#039;m doubtful that it&#039;s the best possible system, mainly because I haven&#039;t heard any arguments that it is.&nbsp; In that case there is a better system, and we should use that system instead, not because it&#039;s [b]cute[/b], but because it&#039;s [b]better[/b].<br /><br />Dew, you clearly still don&#039;t understand the conversation we had, which, despite having Strangle&#039;s name come up repeatedly, had nothing to do with Strangle.&nbsp; Strangle is what you would call an example.&nbsp; But since you brought it up, I will explain to everybody else: there is nothing in the rules that guarantees that anyone will be selected as a captain, nor is there anything that guarantees that returning (even playoff-making) captains will be allowed to return.&nbsp; The question is, should we be able to dismiss captains if better, more responsible, and more involved captains sign up (as the rules currently allow), or should we make a new rule that gives captains some guarantee that they will be able to continue capping until they hit their second consecutive non-playoff strike.&nbsp; It really wasn&#039;t a very interesting discussion.<br /><br />But yes, we will probably struggle to find 12 willing and responsible caps this season, and we will certainly have many new captains.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4915, 517, 17, 1317996389, 163, 4915, 'Re: The Draft', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.27.208', 1, 0, '', 'Actually, Dew, I&#039;ve said if a good percentage [b]don&#039;t[/b] return then we should randomize the draft order after captains are selected. I&#039;m more or less for simply keeping the old system in place, i.e no changed draft system or anything along those lines. And I can&#039;t really picture a scenario of Ralphis not being a captain, regardless of what he&#039;s said. But only time will tell.&nbsp; ', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4913, 517, 17, 1317981826, 75, 4913, 'Re: The Draft', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'and what if they don&#039;t? afaik ralphis and stallion won&#039;t cap, neither will bones. naut was kicked out. i&#039;m not sure about mass, i think i&#039;ve seen him say he won&#039;t. that&#039;s over 40% change rate, we might as well randomize the draft order entirely. this is exactly why we changed the criteria last season.<br /><br />it&#039;s also kinda hilarious how people have a magical cure for everything - equally skilled, dedicated and responsible caps (and booting strangle to achieve that), when it&#039;s pretty obvious we&#039;ll struggle to find 12 candidates at least as good as strangle.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4941, 517, 17, 1318288205, 10, 4941, 'Re: The Draft', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 0, '', 'There has never been elite players in the second round and probably never will be. Don&#039;t confuse above average players with great or elite, they make a huge difference!', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4939, 517, 17, 1318286961, 10, 4939, 'Re: The Draft', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 0, '', 'If I had to take a guess, it is that the elite captains have been picking at the bottom of the order now due to carrying over their records from the season prior. This would have been the case to an even more serious degree last season when the league modified the draft order in such a way that it placed the most elite at the bottom, the returning lessers at the top, and everyone else in the middle.<br /><br />Both samples show that it is not position that matters as much as quality of captain. There can never be parity in this league or almost any league because of wide skill gaps, even between above average players and those in the elite class. The elite will always come out on top BECAUSE they are elite, regardless of where they pick.<br /><br />When new elite players show up, the balance of the league slightly shifts. Without new elite players arriving while existing elite players are still active, there will be no shift. If the existing elite players disappear, then other players become &quot;elite&quot; and the same cycle will continue with a new group of faces.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(8471, 822, 29, 1361430702, 214, 8513, 'Re: February ''13 Onslaught Tournament', 'RustInPeace', 'ru5tk1ng@yahoo.com', '65.68.72.21', 1, 1361590368, 'Ru5tK1ng', 'I&#039;m pleased to announce the conclusion of the February Pick-Up Collective. I must thank all the participants who&#039;ve helped make this launch event successful. At the end of this next pick-up, I&#039;ll tally up the final point count and reveal 1st-3rd place winners. All ranking and rank points will remain in case anyone is wondering. For those who missed out on all the fun, I have plans for next month and even for time in between. So stick around and tell all your friends. For now, here are the game play settings for #6:<br />-----------------------------------<br />[img]http://rust.unidoom.org/compet/febcoll2013/idlpickup%23006nsexl_bset.png[/img]<br /><br />Results: http://rust.unidoom.org/compet/febcoll2013/idlpickup%23006nsexl_b.htm', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4984, 517, 17, 1318482436, 158, 4984, 'Re: The Draft', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '199.246.39.22', 1, 0, '', 'Bad captains ruin teams. You can&#039;t make the draft fair for these players because they are literally just bad, and would probably go 3rd round if put into a player position. These players competing against players who would easily go first round isn&#039;t fair, no matter what kind of draft. If you do manage to find some type of draft system that will give the really bad captains 2 great players, then you&#039;d be ruining it for the better captains.<br /><br />You have to cut the fat. I&#039;m just going to throw this out there and all of you are probably going to disagree, but finding 8 [b]good[/b] captains can be achieved. If we have enough good players sign up, (at least 16 with 8 teams) with 8 good captains to back these teams, then IDL would be a lot better. Realistically, finding 8 good captains would be pretty hard, but it would be a lot easier than finding 12. With 12 teams, the skill is more spread out. First pick becomes a lot worse, while 8th pick becomes a bit better and more manageable.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4993, 517, 17, 1318518429, 10, 4993, 'Re: The Draft', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Jenova link=topic=517.msg4984#msg4984 date=1318482436]You have to cut the fat. I&#039;m just going to throw this out there and all of you are probably going to disagree, but finding 8 [b]good[/b] captains can be achieved.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />We have had four 8 team seasons, however only three allowed captains to take over those teams in the current format. Which of those seasons was the league even remotely close to finding 8 good captains? I would argue that we&#039;ve actually had greater success finding parity amongst captains in 12 team seasons than 8 teams, but I don&#039;t have any numbers to support this.<br /><br />We had some -really- bad captains in the 8 team seasons, probably much worse than any of the 12 team seasons per team capita.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7468, 723, 22, 1346615752, 157, 7468, 'Re: Simplifying a Situation', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '71.115.127.224', 1, 0, '', 'at this time, tosen is no longer in H, having been kicked for his actions', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(8211, 801, 25, 1359834878, 3, 8211, 'Re: WEEK 4 - THIRTY1211: Scary Flaggers (JAN 28 - FEB 4) - Discussion and Results', 'Joshsmith', 'tonihawker666@yahoo.com', '99.9.214.154', 1, 0, '', 'Thought that microphone was a muppet for a second.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5092, 522, 17, 1319081963, 163, 5092, 'Re: Trading hurts parity?', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.50.8.124', 1, 0, '', '[quote=&quot;Fastidious&quot;]<br />With all due respect I don&#039;t understand how you can defend trading then admit most trades are ridiculously lopsided.&nbsp; Why have a draft at all that attempts to do some semblance of parity and fairness if as history has shown often the MasterBowl win is going go to a team because of a trade?&nbsp; Some captains have made some terrible draft choices but often the terrible trades are much worse.&nbsp; We have captains giving up and trading people away or wrecking their teams to do a trade that only helps one team.&nbsp; Sometimes the captains even know this, yet still they do these trades.[/quote]<br /><br />I said most trades have historically been bad, not all of them. There have been trades that worked for both teams, it&#039;s just that we tend to remember the screw-jobs first. Abolishing the trade system is not going to help parity. Because if people are trading when they deliberately know it will be an extremely bad trade, then parity probably never existed. This is not a result of trading making a mark on the balance of IDL, it&#039;s simply a matter of poor captains/good captains, which I already have addressed. <br /><br />I will say this, Fast. Trading can be a pain. When I traded Mantis, I legitimately felt bad. But, at 0-3 and in need of something different (and quite frankly, more willing to cooperate), I made a desperate move by trading him to the worst situation in the IDL (Naut&#039;s DMC) for Saber. While it didn&#039;t work out, there is that element of how trading can sometimes suck. The last thing in the world I want to do with one of my teammates is basically tell them they&#039;re not good enough. <br /><br /> With that said, I really want to illustrate how important it is that it runs deeper than that. Sometimes, it&#039;s not a matter of being good enough, it&#039;s a matter of getting what you need. If Jenova has LB and I have Stallion, a swap for LB/Stall in our situations make perfect sense. It&#039;s not that Stall is better than LB but I need a runner and Jenova needs a defender. So, in that sense, I see trading being good because sometimes the draft just isn&#039;t on your side. Sometimes, you&#039;re forced to pick the absolute best player you can even if it doesn&#039;t make sense. The idea of trading is beneficial because it gives a captain an outlet so that he can better his team. In instances like this, the lack of trading be allowed would definitely hurt.&nbsp; ', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5894, 581, 17, 1326353057, 158, 5894, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '173.206.15.54', 1, 0, '', 'Mikehail is very good at backchecking logs. I remember that one time mike assured me that he didn&#039;t push back the season 8 conference finals game back a week, but actually did.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6194, 604, 20, 1328918908, 75, 6194, 'Re: Week 6 (FEB 6 - FEB 12) : ZDCTF02 (MAP02) - Discussion and Results', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=HumanBones link=topic=604.msg6192#msg6192 date=1328917702]Let&#039;s clarify the clarification. Round 1 will start 2v1. RRS will have two players, PBH will have one. If RRS scores a flag, one member of PBH will join. If they score another, the second PBH player will join. If RRS doesn&#039;t score or only scores one flag after 3 minutes, all of PBH will join the game and Round 1 will finish as a 2v3. Round 2 and any subsequent rounds will be played as a 3v3.<br />[/quote]<br />i helped you sum this up and it made my head hurt, but now when i read it all in one place, i just started laughing. let&#039;s just make both team lose, heh.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6419, 622, 17, 1331157745, 4, 6419, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '68.83.192.117', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=dew link=topic=622.msg6415#msg6415 date=1331148956]<br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=622.msg6410#msg6410 date=1331111662]It&#039;s survival coop is second to none...[/quote]<br />are you banned from zd or living under a rock or something? 1.09 has been strutting its fresh survival/coop powers every week for the past 5 months or something. TNS is the most popular mass event in multiplayer doom these days, surpassing even nitros. <br /><br />skulltag is actually lagging behind in development speed, [i]considerably.[/i] the latest released version?<br />zdaemon 1.09 b26: 2012-02-17<br />odamex 0.5.6: 2011-11-05<br />skulltag 98d: 2010-11-06<br /><br />that&#039;s right, skulltag is stuck in a development limbo spanning over a year. 98e is still not even in a RC stage... and even that is much older than the betas of the competing ports. you [i]may[/i] argue that both b26 and 056 are currently unusable for idl&#039;s needs, but let&#039;s be honest, so is 98d/e. it&#039;d need as much update work as the other competitors.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Are you seriously trying to say that any version of ZDaemon is better than Skulltag in terms of coop?<br /><br />r<br />o<br />f<br />l', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6748, 658, 22, 1336488435, 2273, 6748, 'Re: IDL Summer 2012 Signups', 'nabique', 'nabique@gmail.com', '81.201.17.78', 1, 1336488538, 'nabique', 'Name: nabique<br />Country/State: Russia<br />Email Contact: death@russia.ru<br />IM Contact: QuakeNet #idl/#odamex/#tf2.ru<br />Regular Availability: monday-friday evenings', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6961, 667, 23, 1339035696, 11, 6961, 'Re: Blue Division Results &amp; Demos', 'Doomguy666', 'xdoomguy666x@hotmail.com', '72.192.87.164', 1, 0, '', 'Just played Spider.....<br /><br />Doomguy666 - 2 Spider - 0<br /><br />D5M1 - 50-27<br />Exposed - 50-35<br /><br />Demos: http://www.speedyshare.com/36C2Q/Doomguy666vsSpider.rar<br /><br />ggs man... interesting use of plasma on d5 and you played a pretty strong exposed game!! ', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6722, 657, 17, 1335806665, 75, 6722, 'Re: Change', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'that &quot;enemy has your flag&quot; scheme is broken as fuck. flags get taken like twice per five seconds in doom, so all you hear is &quot;enemy&quot; and &quot;flag&quot; and &quot;you&quot; in various combinations in a constant incomprehensible stream. there&#039;s no way of making sense out of it. zvox says BLUE or RED as the first word and that&#039;s often enough to understand what&#039;s going on. the &quot;enemy flag&quot; ramble is utterly useless ingame.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4988, 519, 17, 1318506965, 11, 4988, 'Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'Doomguy666', 'xdoomguy666x@hotmail.com', '76.198.242.31', 1, 0, '', 'I have played this Doom game a long time and so have very many others.<br /><br />What decides the criteria for an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?<br /><br />There is without a doubt certain traits that follow anyone who take this game seriously. There are many discussions/arguments but I am curious as to what fellow players in this league at this time consider what would make someone fall under such a category.&nbsp; ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4989, 519, 17, 1318512464, 163, 4989, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.27.208', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;ll post later when I have more time to give you a well thought-out answer. I just wanted to say:<br /><br />In before Jenova says he&#039;s the best.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5895, 579, 20, 1326353355, 20, 5895, 'Re: Post Demos Here', 'Mantis-X', 'nesman90@aol.com', '24.88.122.148', 1, 0, '', 'http://wikisend.com/download/196332/BBC_TCB_Week1.zip', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6723, 655, 22, 1335809204, 8, 6723, 'Re: Summer 2012 Changes', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=655.msg6716#msg6716 date=1335744552]<br />I think it would be worth noting which options in the menus would be restricted in the server configurations. Blood intensity, for example.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Blood intensity will be customizable. I suppose I&#039;ll have to go through and take a look at some of the other things, but I don&#039;t anticipate there being anything important that will be restricted. <br /><br />[quote author=Fluffles link=topic=655.msg6721#msg6721 date=1335805948]<br />Will the odamex servers be hidden like the zdaemon ones?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />No, they will not be hidden. They will be able to be viewed by anyone who opens the launcher. However they will remain passworded for a few obvious reasons, like trying to avoid interruptions by people who don&#039;t necessarily understand what&#039;s going on. The passwords will be easily attainable (like they are now) for anyone who wants them.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(4991, 515, 17, 1318515576, 213, 4991, 'Re: New team names?', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=515.msg4977#msg4977 date=1318443311]Not very much of an &#039;anonymous&#039; first-person quote if there&#039;s literally only one guy who can and has made logos for the teams.[/quote]<br />You got the joke.<br /><br />But you just mean &#039;has&#039;, not &#039;can&#039;.&nbsp; You&#039;re not the only doomer with intro-level knowledge of graphic design (or intro-level knowledge of anything for that matter).<br /><br />[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=515.msg4977#msg4977 date=1318443311]They were a very good addition to making the league look cooler and more organized, I do not think you can argue against that in the least.[/quote]<br /><br />No, I can&#039;t.<br /><br />Like I said, this particular argument against captain naming is the only game in town.&nbsp; I don&#039;t want to lose the icons either.&nbsp; I just think freedom is more important than cosmetics, for this league anyway.&nbsp; If our games were being broadcast on national television, if we had sponsors to lose, I would feel differently.&nbsp; Anyway, we can still have team icons of some kind, and they can still be aesthetically appealing and tie the site together.&nbsp; This is a discussion we can have in IRC, but in as much as I&#039;ve volunteered to do them, there will be team icons no matter what happens.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=515.msg4981#msg4981 date=1318478794]...[/quote]<br /><br />I think you&#039;re confused about the fact that Justin Bieber is important, and you aren&#039;t.&nbsp; Don&#039;t worry, we all are.<br /><br />The fact that Xen made logos doesn&#039;t morally entitle us to keeping these team names for the rest of our fucking lives.&nbsp; Xen is in favor of have the administration change some of the lamer team names, in which we will need to make new logos anyway (just not continually for future seasons).&nbsp; It&#039;s not a lack of appreciation.<br /><br />I am an admin, and I&#039;m in favor of it.&nbsp; So don&#039;t worry about it being easier for the admins.<br /><br />I&#039;m pretty sure Ladna is in favor of it.&nbsp; He also said it wouldn&#039;t make doing stats more difficult.<br /><br />Do you also feel sorry for people who have fun playing in a video game league, who dream of winning a a fake finals game, or who pride themselves on being the best D5M7 player?&nbsp; I&nbsp; certainly would if I thought that they thought that that&#039;s what made them matter.&nbsp; But more likely, they are just having fun with an online video game.&nbsp; Naming teams is fun.&nbsp; Deal with it.<br /><br />So you&#039;re only argument here is that it&#039;s confusing?&nbsp; You can&#039;t remember allll thooose namees!&nbsp;  Hwo to spel!&nbsp; Gaarg! 1<br /><br />Actually, I think it is more confusing to call Clim&#039;s team last season BSK after calling Jen&#039;s team BSK the season before.&nbsp; Let me ask you a question: was BSK a successful team?&nbsp; There&#039;s no answer because the name refers to many different teams!&nbsp; Was SNAX a successful team? No!&nbsp; I know this because I know who we&#039;re talking about.&nbsp; I&#039;d rather have one name for each team than twelve names for a hundred teams--THAT is confusing.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4994, 515, 17, 1318518977, 10, 4994, 'Re: New team names?', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 0, '', 'The reason this issue is [i]so important[/i] is because it is a vanity issue, one that is easy to state an opinion on without any type of facts or deep thought. It is the equivalent of an issue like Don&#039;t Ask, Don&#039;t Tell, being able to discuss religion in public school, abortion rights, etc during a US presidential election season. [b]Meanwhile[/b], important issues like how to deal with ridiculous government spending, regulations, etc are almost always pushed to the backside by the public because they require considerable intelligence (which they don&#039;t have) and the ability to research, quantify, and analyze facts.<br /><br />Issues like these are of the least importance to the league&#039;s overall well being but will always bring about the most discussion because they are easily accessible to anyone that can turn wake up and breathe in the morning.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4995, 515, 17, 1318522984, 75, 4995, 'Re: New team names?', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=515.msg4994#msg4994 date=1318518977]<br />Issues like these are of the least importance to the league&#039;s overall well being but will always bring about the most discussion because they are easily accessible to anyone that can turn wake up and breathe in the morning.<br />[/quote]<br />i actually threw it out here to a public discussion, because i was sick of it the second day star/mass kept bringing it up while we still hadn&#039;t resolved critically important issues (new maps).<br /><br />the old idl had stupid custom names. ecdl had stupid custom names. zect had stupid custom names. every official zdaemon team tournament ever had ridiculous, painfully retarded names. sicl... eh, you get my point. history has proven team names lead to idiocy, with exactly zero exceptions, so i don&#039;t share star&#039;s and mass&#039; confidence we&#039;d be able to censor them all the way to awesomeness. no matter how sarcastic mass&#039; responses are becoming.<br /><br />[quote author=Mass]<br />I just think freedom is more important than cosmetics, for this league anyway.<br />[/quote]<br />but custom team names [b]are[/b] cosmetics. you surely can&#039;t possibly argue they add towards ingame performance, can you? i didn&#039;t feel elevated by my freedom to name a team in ecdl or zect, i actually felt awkward having to come up with an obligatory cool name/clever pun and then suffer the results of the other caps doing the same. i didn&#039;t even know what the other abbreviations meant and i didn&#039;t care, the names amounted to nothing and were doomed to disappear in a few weeks.<br /><br />[quote author=Mass]<br />So [b]you&#039;re[/b] only argument here is that it&#039;s confusing?&nbsp; You can&#039;t remember allll thooose namees!&nbsp;  [b]Hwo to spel![/b]&nbsp; Gaarg! 1<br />[/quote]<br />oh, the irony! it burnssssssssss...<br /><br />[quote author=Mass]<br />Actually, I think it is more confusing to call Clim&#039;s team last season BSK after calling Jen&#039;s team BSK the season before.&nbsp; Let me ask you a question: was BSK a successful team?&nbsp; There&#039;s no answer because the name refers to many different teams!&nbsp; Was SNAX a successful team? No!&nbsp; I know this because I know who we&#039;re talking about.&nbsp; I&#039;d rather have one name for each team than twelve names for a hundred teams--THAT is confusing.<br />[/quote]<br />i&#039;m not so sure about that. you&#039;ll get lost in the custom names pretty soon while &quot;clim&#039;s BSK&quot; vs &quot;jen&#039;s BSK&quot; or &quot;xen&#039;s final EBL season&quot; are quite descriptive. it happens in sports anyways - is edmonton oilers a successful team? it certainly doesn&#039;t look so now, but they used to have gretzky&amp;co...<br /><br />i&#039;d love to see a compromise achieved. bones has cooked up a proposition like that, maybe when he feels like it, he could post it here. with players i respect actually [i]voicing[/i] they don&#039;t want custom names, i feel less moved by the numbers in polls.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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VALUES 
	(4990, 519, 17, 1318514270, 0, 4990, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'capodecima', '', '88.103.101.55', 1, 0, '', 'best is ralphis, jenova, chew, LB , nostar, hatred and a lot another players&nbsp; ;)', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6195, 604, 20, 1328926902, 214, 6195, 'Re: Week 6 (FEB 6 - FEB 12) : ZDCTF02 (MAP02) - Discussion and Results', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '65.68.73.67', 1, 0, '', 'This league is retarded and so are its rules. And possibly its board members as well.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6749, 660, 22, 1336488737, 214, 6749, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.17.154', 1, 0, '', 'Some of those names you listed have been playing for years. I think they have come to a point where they have played for long enough. I&#039;ve only played in 3 seasons and I already want to do something else. I can only imagine how guys like chewy, star and xen feel. Personally I have grown tired of IDL being in the forefront: many practices, meeting scheduled games, learning new maps, playing for several hours a week, yelling at people. That is why I am not going to cap during the summer. I don&#039;t have the drive to commit as I have in the past seasons and I surely don&#039;t want to end up as a half-assed captain. I don&#039;t think anyone is being a bitch. Some of us want to go do something else instead of sitting at a computer. <br /><br />Remember, it&#039;s the summer. The time where you go outside, enjoy the weather, and simply have fun. 8)<br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6962, 668, 23, 1339050607, 157, 6962, 'Re: Red Division Results &amp; Demos', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '71.115.99.65', 1, 0, '', 'legion vs nautilus<br /><br />first pick: boo<br />[url=http://i.imgur.com/eJzmC.png]screenshot[/url]<br />result: 50-38 legion<br /><br />second pick: exposed<br />[url=http://i.imgur.com/sm8ZY.png]screenshot[/url]<br />result: 50-43 legion<br /><br />[url=http://www.mediafire.com/?4bn5b1h6jfnjrhv]demo of games[/url]', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7832, 758, 25, 1352877594, 2185, 7832, 'Re: IDL Winter 2013 Signups', 'Dragon', 'morgan.larsson@live.se', '193.227.126.18', 1, 0, '', 'Name: Dragon<br />Country/State: Sweden<br />IM Contact: Zandronum: #Slaughter QuakeNet: #idl<br />Regular Availability: Weekends and on holidays - Pretty much 24/7 on those times.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8095, 786, 17, 1357603367, 209, 8095, 'Re: Real talk.', 'AlexMax', 'alexmax2742@gmail.com', '24.74.30.216', 1, 0, '', 'The only thing that I can conclude from this thread is that Kilgore won.&nbsp; Great work, everyone.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4987, 518, 30, 1318505591, 11, 4987, 'Re: IDL Radio', 'Doomguy666', 'xdoomguy666x@hotmail.com', '76.198.242.31', 1, 0, '', 'BE THERE OR BE SQUARE!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4996, 519, 17, 1318524674, 19, 4996, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.183.245', 1, 0, '', 'You will certainly find different definitions of what makes an elite doom player. You have to measure at what skill level above the general crowd constitutes someone to be classified as &#039;elite&#039;. It&#039;s not really about length of time played. I would consider the top 3 runners and defenders to be part of the elite. I don&#039;t know who those are, but likely people who consistently perform at the top of the overall field. Ralphis is a proven top offensive AND defensive player. I would think that makes him one. Jenova has shattered records in offense and routinely wins games in the IDL when he plays. I think that also is an elite trait. Stuff like that, I guess.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4997, 515, 17, 1318525042, 15, 4997, 'Re: New team names?', 'ItalianStallion', 'stalliondoom@gmail.com', '174.91.17.13', 1, 0, '', 'I would like to see captains chose their own team name.&nbsp; But perhaps only once they have a full roster. So choosing a name would kind of bring some sort of team unity.&nbsp; Honestly being on the brokeback cowboys for what...3, 4 seasons? Is really fucking annoying.......', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4998, 515, 17, 1318525560, 19, 4998, 'Re: New team names?', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.183.245', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=MassVC link=topic=515.msg4991#msg4991 date=1318515576]<br />But you just mean &#039;has&#039;, not &#039;can&#039;.&nbsp; You&#039;re not the only doomer with intro-level knowledge of graphic design (or intro-level knowledge of anything for that matter).<br />[/quote]<br /><br />If anyone wants to prove they have the motivation and skill necessary to put out quality logos at the same level or above what I have done, I welcome it, since it&#039;s less work for me! I don&#039;t mind doing logos but as anyone with...&#039;intro-level&#039; design knowledge knows that it&#039;s not an easy task, in fact it is tedious to have decent quality logos consistent across all twelve teams. I&#039;ve asked to see what you can do since you routinely mention you can do logos but you told me explicitly that unless I&#039;m hiring you I don&#039;t get to see how good you are so: &#039;can&#039; sticks. :)<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=515.msg4981#msg4981 date=1318478794]<br />Let&#039;s not show him how unappreciative we are of his work!<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I know people like the logos. Just because people wanna get rid of them doesn&#039;t mean I&#039;ll railroad the movement and perform a superfilibuster on the board floor. I just stand against it. I do not believe people are unappreciative. I do however agree there is a nice sense of continuity in that captains return to either the same teams or pick one of the other teams instead of us having to refer to &#039;Jenova&#039;s HWB&#039; which was in use for one season (just for the sake of the argument)<br /><br />The more this thread drags on the more I see that everyone&#039;s split every which way on this matter. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s much of a need for this discussion anymore. I&#039;ve shifting my official position on the matter to be completely neutral. I find I really don&#039;t care what people do now that I&#039;m working on the website framework again to compensate for the possibility of no existing logo for a team at any point in time.<br /><br />So that being the case, teams could name themselves potentially whatever they want and the website would support it.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5896, 581, 17, 1326353749, 20, 5896, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'Mantis-X', 'nesman90@aol.com', '24.88.122.148', 1, 0, '', 'If it isn&#039;t the final WAD, take that ProCTF thing out (whatever it is) and slip in a TLSXCTF map... I won&#039;t tell anyone&nbsp; :D', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6196, 604, 20, 1328947323, 89, 6196, 'Re: Week 6 (FEB 6 - FEB 12) : ZDCTF02 (MAP02) - Discussion and Results', 'Solar_Flare', 'cdstrangle@gmail.com', '65.68.73.67', 1, 0, '', 'Too bad I already played my game Rust, I could have given you Whitemike to save your team.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6420, 622, 17, 1331165076, 130, 6420, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', 'IDL is CTF.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6963, 667, 23, 1339123872, 19, 6963, 'Re: Blue Division Results &amp; Demos', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.227.220', 1, 0, '', 'Xenaero 2-0 X-Ray<br /><br />Moo2d: 50-42<br />D5M1: 50-27<br /><br />Screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/iPBEe<br /><br />Demos: http://xen.unidoom.org/doom/mac/mac2012-xenvsxray.zip<br /><br />Fierce opponent. Moo2d was too close for my comfort.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5007, 513, 20, 1318539418, 158, 5007, 'Re: Jenova +  Bloviating = Jenoviating', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '199.246.39.22', 1, 0, '', 'You are very gay.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6967, 671, 22, 1339284222, 0, 6967, 'Re: S2012 Invite List', 'Soul Sucka', '', '187.112.184.63', 1, 0, '', 'No, you didn&#039;t!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7467, 723, 22, 1346610484, 10, 7467, 'Re: Simplifying a Situation', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '69.139.17.241', 1, 0, '', 'Legion,<br /><br />The IDL does not and never has &quot;ostracized&quot; itself from Skulltag. The IDL has reached out to Skulltag players [i]many[/i] times in the past, even when it was potentially against its best interests. I mean more than just advertising the league in servers/forums too. <br /><br />When SICL started up, one of the founders (maybe Tenchu? I forget who) came to us and asked if they could use all of the infrastructure we had already created at the time. We allowed them to because we thought that bolstering competition on Skulltag would possibly help push some of those players into participating in the IDL. It worked to an extent but not in the way we originally projected.<br /><br />The league (SICL) was basically a dismal failure, each season becoming worse, more watered down than the last. A select handful of players from these leagues tried out the IDL after they saw how poorly run the SICL was. Though the IDL benefitted from picking up a few players, it shined a light on what could be taken from Skulltag&#039;s &quot;competitive community&quot;. Their league itself was representative of key traits the migrant players we&#039;ve seen come over this way: apathy and disrespect.<br /><br />A large portion (not all) of the SICL players no-showed games, no-showed their teams, aliased on teams, and would go out of their way to disrespect other players and teams with regularity. Many Skulltag players who came to the IDL no-showed games, no-showed teams, and showed a general lack of respect for the IDL.<br /><br />[b]There are exceptions[/b]. There have been some who have played in the IDL and been model players and captains. However, with the sheer volume of those who have burned the league, is it any wonder that the IDL slowed down in its attempts to involve players who were going to dog it every single season? Isn&#039;t it pretty obvious why it is considered &quot;non-competitive&quot;? It hasn&#039;t shown a sign of being competitive since the mid 00s.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6724, 657, 17, 1335810833, 10, 6724, 'Re: Change', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 0, '', 'I guess that&#039;s one take on it. I find it to be better since I sometimes forget what team color I&#039;m on beyond shooting whoever comes out of the other base. The phrases could use shortening', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7699, 740, 17, 1349243112, 19, 7699, 'Re: Odamex Discussion', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '184.1.245.86', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ladna link=topic=740.msg7698#msg7698 date=1349242397]<br />I&#039;m not sure there&#039;s a strong case against it as an option.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />uh, yeah there is, im the author of the port and youre wrong and i hate ud and youre also banned for harassment', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7833, 758, 25, 1352910407, 73, 7833, 'Re: IDL Winter 2013 Signups', 'Quiksilver', 'joshbryantmusic@gmail.com', '50.90.41.254', 1, 0, '', 'Name: Quiksilver<br />Country/State: USA. EST or GMT -5:00<br />Email contact: joshbryantmusic@gmail.com<br />Phone number: 317-407-4853 <br />Regular Availability:Before 6 on Fri, Sun, Wed, and after 6 on the rest of those days.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8096, 786, 17, 1357604850, 214, 8096, 'Re: Real talk.', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '65.68.75.232', 1, 0, '', 'I don&#039;t understand. What does Kilgore have to do with the channel splitting?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(1496, 171, 26, 1266278730, 7, 1497, 'Official Server Expansion', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '69.160.204.189', 1, 1266280199, 'Ladna', 'The language in the [b]Game Location[/b] section was changed from:<br /><br />[quote]<br />All games must be played on the TotalTrash official IDL servers. Games played on other servers will not be recognized. Should TotalTrash be unavailable during a scheduled game time, that game will be postponed.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />to:<br /><br />[quote]<br />All games must be played on official IDL servers, which are listed on the IDL site. Games played on other servers will not be recognized. The server hosting the game must be agreed upon at least 24 hours before the game is scheduled to take place, and all rounds of said game must be played on the same server. In the event of server disputes, or should no discussion take place, TotalTrash Chicago will be used. Should the hosting server become unavailable during a scheduled game time, that game will be postponed.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />This change takes effect for the Summer 2010 season.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(4999, 519, 17, 1318529135, 10, 4999, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '64.141.192.13', 1, 0, '', '[list type=decimal]<br />[li]Players who consistently post stats at the top of the league for multiple seasons[/li][/list]<br />and/or<br />[list][li]Players known for making &quot;clutch plays&quot; over the history of the league[/li][/list]<br />and/or<br />[list][li]Players who have been known to consistently &quot;carry&quot; teams[/li][/list]<br />and/or<br />[list][li]Players who make others better by just being around[/li][/list]<br />and/or<br />[list][li]Players consistently named Jenova[/li]<br />[/list]', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5003, 515, 17, 1318530163, 213, 5003, 'Re: New team names?', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 1318530397, 'MassVC', '[quote author=dew link=topic=515.msg4995#msg4995 date=1318522984]oh, the irony! it burnssssssssss...[/quote]<br />rofl<br /><br />How do you know it wasn&#039;t part of the joke!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5897, 581, 17, 1326354132, 89, 5897, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'Solar_Flare', 'cdstrangle@gmail.com', '69.154.182.66', 1, 0, '', 'Jenova also has 2 MB rings while Mike has 0', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6197, 606, 17, 1328949905, 7, 6197, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', '- Can infractions cancel each other out on opposing teams?<br /><br />No.<br /><br />- What about FA players who come in one week don&#039;t record a demo then go back to FA?<br /><br />Dunno.&nbsp; Probably they serve their demo penalty if they get picked up, meaning they likely won&#039;t get picked up.&nbsp; Good incentive to upload a demo.<br /><br />- Demo rule is outdated, let&#039;s only have players upload demos on request.<br /><br />1.&nbsp; Demos are good for archiving.&nbsp; Believe it or not, I actually watch demos for fun sometimes.<br /><br />2.&nbsp; It&#039;s seriously extremely simple to record &amp; upload a demo.&nbsp; The amount of bitching that occurs related to demo uploading is totally disproportionate.<br /><br />3.&nbsp; I&#039;ll tell you what&#039;s lame, players not willing to take 40 seconds to upload a demo.<br /><br />4.&nbsp; I hereby request all demos from everyone.&nbsp; I suspect you all.&nbsp; I even suspect myself.<br /><br />- Serverside Demos<br /><br />Hear hear.&nbsp; Fingers crossed.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5004, 517, 17, 1318532231, 7, 5005, 'Re: The Draft', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '65.214.200.140', 1, 1318533174, 'Ladna', '[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg4983#msg4983 date=1318479595]<br />Blah blah straight draft<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m not talking about a straight draft, if I seem like I am I apologize.&nbsp; I don&#039;t really apply any rigor to these forum posts, so it&#039;s possible I made a mistake somewhere :) .<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg4983#msg4983 date=1318479595]<br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg4978#msg4978 date=1318461226]<br />IDL makes round 1 of the draft more even by letting poor captains pick first, and forcing elite captains to pick last.<br /><br />IDL makes round 2 of the draft more fair by letting elite captains pick first, and forcing poor captains to pick last.<br /><br />#1 is not always better than #2, thus higher pick order is not the sole determinant of pick quality.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Which is it?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m talking about the political effect, not the mathematical effect, which is marginalized at best by other variables.<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg4983#msg4983 date=1318479595]<br />By the way, the usual argument against it (the virtue of it, for God&#039;s sake, not the brute [i]fact[/i] of it), is not that it will make players ago away.&nbsp; You and NoStar are the only people who have made that point to me.&nbsp; The usual argument is that it is unfair (and that unfairness is intrinsically bad).<br />[/quote]<br /><br />You&#039;re the one who likes to talk about inductive reasoning when you have no data ;) .&nbsp; All we&#039;re saying is that elite captains will be less likely to captain if there are additional disincentives, and the draft fucking them harder is a clear disincentive.<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg4983#msg4983 date=1318479595]<br />That would be very fucking sad if changing the draft order made some captains realize how shitty they are.&nbsp; But I think they know.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I was actually going to captain through the foreseeable future on FLS until the IDL administration repealed franchising, which screwed my strategy pretty hard.&nbsp; So yes, draft changes have affected at least 1 captain not volunteering again.<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg4983#msg4983 date=1318479595]<br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg4978#msg4978 date=1318461226]<br />There are maybe 3 people who give a fuck at all about the draft, why waste so much time on it?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />This is your thread.&nbsp; <br /><br />The last draft discussion I started was before the beginning of last season.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m actually referring to all the discussion in #idlb.&nbsp; As I&#039;ve said before, placement of new captains merits discussion, changing the draft otherwise does not.&nbsp; This is because the draft already does as much as it can to achieve parity.&nbsp; Anything else is overshadowed by millions of other variables.<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg4983#msg4983 date=1318479595]<br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg4978#msg4978 date=1318461226]The other goals are also important though.&nbsp; Because the draft is a snake draft, it does the following:<br />&nbsp; - Motivates good players to captain (so a poor captain can&#039;t draft them)<br />&nbsp; - Gives poor captains an elite player they can learn from<br />&nbsp; - Gives elite captains a better chance at building a team[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg4978#msg4978 date=1318461226]<br />Ralphis is saying that no matter where he drafts, he&#039;s going to have a successful season<br />[/quote]<br /><br />A straight draft does the first two as well or better.&nbsp; I don&#039;t think elite captains are starving for the third in virtue of the second quote.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />It&#039;s not about abliity to win.&nbsp; It&#039;s about the politics of getting captains to volunteer.&nbsp; Remember I said:<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg4978#msg4978 date=1318461226]<br />My perspective is that the draft is 100% political.&nbsp; You can say to poor captains, &quot;but you get to pick 1st!&quot;, and you can say to elite captains &quot;but you get to build a team&quot;.&nbsp; The psychology of poor captains picking after elite captains makes it so that this works, and honestly has no problems in and of itself.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Conversely, you can say to elite captains, &quot;yeah Ladna may get to pick 1st, but he gets the worst 3rd&quot;, and you can say to poor captains, &quot;yeah you have to pick 24th, but you get Potent and Ralphis gets Rust&quot;.&nbsp; No, mathematically it doesn&#039;t always work out.&nbsp; But you&#039;re the only one who cares about that.<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg4983#msg4983 date=1318479595]<br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg4978#msg4978 date=1318461226]<br />The goal of the draft is not to make a Ladna vs. Ralphis matchup always 50/50 odds.&nbsp; Rather, it&#039;s to make it so that one day it can be.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />When?&nbsp; Explain how that happens.<br /><br />(Don&#039;t say by giving Ladna the early snake draft spot next season, since, as you have repeatedly said, that does not do the trick.&nbsp; And, as we have repeatedly seen, that does not do the trick.)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m a poor captain.&nbsp; I pick 3rd.&nbsp; I somehow get mikehail.&nbsp; Mikehail, because he doesn&#039;t want to lose every goddamn game ever, teaches me how to cover for him, how to drop back when our flag is out, how to know the spawns so I can camp/run effectively, how to play chokepoints, etc. etc. etc.&nbsp; I&#039;m infinitely better after playing a season with mikehail, and I got a .333 record.&nbsp; Now I pick 6th, and I can put together a more solid team, not only because my pick position allows it, but because I myself am a more solid player.<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg4983#msg4983 date=1318479595]<br />This is the crux.&nbsp; You are telling me (and you are not the first person) that making the IDL fair will cause elite players to walk.&nbsp; Elite players do not want an even playing field; they do not want to have to put an equal effort into a game in order to win as does a bad player.&nbsp; Instead, they want the odds to be in their favor because they are elite players.&nbsp; They want it to be an uphill battle for the novice players.&nbsp; If you turn their 80/20 odds into 50/50 odds, they will walk.<br /><br />You might be right.&nbsp; You are probably right.&nbsp; But I cannot imagine why.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />There is no reason that Ladna should have the same chance at winning the Masterbowl as Ralphis, Nostar, Stallion, Jenova, HumanBones, LordBritish, RussianDumbass, etc. etc. etc. etc.&nbsp; There&#039;s no reason the Colts should have the same chance at winning the Super Bowl (w/o Peyton Manning) as the Steelers, the Ravens, the Packers, etc. etc.<br /><br />Now, because elite players don&#039;t always volunteer to captain, and because there&#039;s a psychological issue with picking last in any draft (straight, snake or otherwise), we do a snake draft.&nbsp; This prevents poor captains from being raped the entire season (though not always), and takes some of the sting out of picking last.<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg4983#msg4983 date=1318479595]<br />On the other hand, you might not be right that this would discourage player growth.&nbsp; Novice players should find an even league attractive.&nbsp; In that league, their numbers are spread out, and each of them has a better chance on being part of a successful team.&nbsp; Since being new is correlated with (and causes) novice-level skill, this is likely to attract new players.&nbsp; These players will improve.&nbsp; This seems much better for the league than begging Chaindude and Fastidious to come back.&nbsp; And therefore you might not be right that this is BAD.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Novice players are rarely as valuable as veteran or elite players.&nbsp; There are a number of reasons for this:<br /><br />&nbsp; - Veteran/Elite players have shown they&#039;re interested in IDL in the long-term.<br />&nbsp; - Veteran/Elite players are critical in maintaining the culture of IDL and PCTF.<br />&nbsp; - Veteran/Elite players are much more likely to donate their time via captaining or administrating.<br />&nbsp; - Veteran/Elite players are less likely to make mistakes (that harm the league) while donating their time.<br /><br />Sure, IDL should be all about expanding the playerbase.&nbsp; But that doesn&#039;t mean letting shitty players captain, and then raping elite captains so it&#039;s &quot;even&quot;.&nbsp; That&#039;s perverse.&nbsp; The answer is to not let shitty players captain.<br /><br />I also don&#039;t like the characterization that anyone&#039;s &quot;begging&quot; anyone to do anything.&nbsp; Talking to a player like Chaindude or Fastidious (both of whom have contributed significantly to IDL) about playing in an IDL season, asking them what they think is wrong with IDL or what they liked about the last season, is very different than &quot;begging&quot;.&nbsp; If the IDL administration isn&#039;t doing this, then they&#039;re remiss, and I certainly hope it&#039;s not due to the <br />fact that they feel like they&#039;re too good for it.<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />Hatred:&nbsp; 100% agree, nice work ;)<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />Jenova:<br /><br />Finding 12 reasonable captains shouldn&#039;t be that hard.&nbsp; Here is my list (made in roughly 5 minutes):<br /><br />RussianDumbass<br />Tai<br />LordBritish<br />HumanBones<br />ThatsJustPrime<br />ItalianStallion<br />Jenova<br />Xenaero<br />MassVC<br />Gilgamesh<br />Nostar<br />Doomguy666<br />mikehail<br />Ladna<br />Ralphis<br />Hatred<br /><br />Sure there&#039;s some variance in skill (and I don&#039;t mean to dismiss the efforts of captains not on this list by any means, as I said, made in 5 minutes :) ), but with the exception of mikehail, these are all current or ex-captains and above-average (mostly elite) players.<br /><br />It&#039;s popular to lament the lack of good captains, but it&#039;s really not true.&nbsp; All that&#039;s necessary is to talk to the players you want to captain, and make it happen.<br /><br />It&#039;s also popular to lament the fact that you&#039;re a good player, and you might get on a bad team.&nbsp; The answer to this is [b]captain your own team![/b].&nbsp; When Fast was on Nero&#039;s team, I told him exactly this, and it&#039;s still true.&nbsp; Either you captain your own team, or you take your chances in the draft like every other player.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5163, 524, 18, 1320073164, 163, 5163, 'Re: Rule Changes for Winter 2012', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.24.8', 1, 0, '', 'What about captains naming their own teams?<br /><br />Also, Fast brought up an excellent point about our discussion on how to handle inactive or extremely disruptive players. I agree that it&#039;s hard to determine the disruptive aspect at times, but there have been instances where it&#039;s public and resolution to the situation would have required common sense at best, not a bunch of logs etc. Either way, perhaps not for this season but future ones, we can dip into that a bit more.<br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(5898, 581, 17, 1326354474, 2, 5898, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'mikefails', 'fearedful12@yahoo.com', '24.18.104.99', 1, 0, '', 'mantis: 8bit $$', 'xx', 1);
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	(5009, 517, 17, 1318544391, 7, 5009, 'Re: The Draft', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '65.214.200.140', 1, 1318544729, 'Ladna', '[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg5006#msg5006 date=1318535330]<br />No, Hatred, I mean 50/50.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />No you don&#039;t.&nbsp; You&#039;re saying elite captains start 80/20 against poor captains, and you want IDL to bias against them somehow to the effect of 20/80, so that it [b]ends up[/b] 50/50.&nbsp; Hatred is saying that the 20/80 is a waste of time, and that poor players/captains need to work on getting better, or just learn to deal with losing to better players.<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg5006#msg5006 date=1318535330]<br />Ladna: &quot;There&#039;s no possible draft that can affect parity differently from any other draft.&quot;<br />Mass: &quot;A straight draft can do that. (Here is exactly how...)&quot;<br />Ladna: &quot;I&#039;m not talking about a straight draft.&quot;<br />Mass: ??<br />[/quote]<br /><br />After performing a quick Firefox search, I don&#039;t believe I said &quot;There&#039;s no possible draft that can affect parity differently from any other draft&quot;.&nbsp; If I implied that anywhere, I apologize, because I certainly don&#039;t think that!&nbsp; What I do think is:<br /><br />[quote=Ladna]<br />There is nothing the draft can do (and still be called a draft) to achieve more parity than it already does.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />This is because any further movement is overshadowed by several other variables, which I&#039;ve enumerated at least once elsewhere.<br /><br />If you want to be logical about it (and I am sure that you do ;) ), I am disagreeing with your original premise that later draft picks are &quot;worse&quot; than earlier ones, in any draft system.&nbsp; Sure if you take the extreme positions #1 and #12, then the difference in skill of the playerbase generally dominates the other variables.&nbsp; This isn&#039;t always true however, see Xenaero + Whiteboy and Tai + Whiteboy for a treatise in how even the best player can destroy your team because you have no team chemistry.<br /><br />My position is that while draft position has an effect on team success, it is far from the sole or even dominant determinant.&nbsp; In any draft system (Oh God a sentence fragment!!!).<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg5006#msg5006 date=1318535330]<br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5004#msg5004 date=1318532231]<br />[Making the league even] is perverse.<br />[/quote]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Another thing I didn&#039;t say.&nbsp; I&#039;m not against parity.&nbsp; I just think changing the draft to achieve more parity than it already does is futile because it&#039;s overshadowed by several other factors.<br /><br />&quot;Hey guys, this is the IDL administration.&nbsp; I know we already fucked up pretty hard and we&#039;ve got a big disparity in captain skill here.&nbsp; So as a result, LordBritish now has to play left-handed.&nbsp; That should do it.&nbsp; Parity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&quot;<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg5006#msg5006 date=1318535330]<br />This is the same primitive witch-hunt claim made in every discussion about parity that evenness is necessarily unfair (to the enfranchised, the powerful, the fortunate), and that unfairness is intrinsically evil.&nbsp; But I can&#039;t argue against this anymore than I can against the claim that being a cow is intrinsically holy.&nbsp; It just isn&#039;t.&nbsp; I think evenness is a virtue, and I think fairness is evenness.&nbsp; You do not.&nbsp; That is that.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I make no such moral claims.&nbsp; I do think that elite/veteran captains might feel like they have a better shot at winning or having fun if they don&#039;t captain if they&#039;re disadvantaged too harshly, and on the moral continuum of:<br /><br />Strong Captains &lt;========================&gt; Weak Captains<br /><br />that&#039;s bad.&nbsp; But I can see an argument for achieving parity in captain skill by choosing captains of relatively similar skill (even though it would be difficult to do that and maintain parity throughout the draft, because of the varying advantages the draft gives).<br /><br />If that&#039;s indeed the goal, then again the draft has nothing to do with it, and it comes down to captain selection.<br /><br />Furthermore, because you can quantify neither draft position advantage/disadvantage nor player skill, you have very little chance of properly biasing the system to achieve parity.&nbsp; The only thing you have to go by is record, which the draft already takes into account.&nbsp; In other words, there is no such system that says:<br /><br />&quot;Oh, Hatred is a 10 point player, Ladna is a 4 point player, and the cap on team skill is 16.&nbsp; That means Hatred can draft 6 more points worth of players, and Ladna can draft 12 more points worth of players&quot;.<br /><br />And even if there were, it&#039;s subjective at best, and captains should be the ones making those decisions.<br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(7703, 742, 24, 1349291420, 75, 7703, 'Re: Vengeance CTF Tournament Introduction', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'Maps can be played in any order the teams agree on. In case an agreement can&#039;t be reached, the default maplist order is used.', 'xx', 1);
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	(9237, 927, 17, 1377482022, 157, 9237, 'Re: img association', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '96.226.118.9', 1, 0, '', 'what force is propagating this madness', 'xx', 1);
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	(6750, 660, 22, 1336494577, 158, 6750, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '173.206.84.255', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=660.msg6747#msg6747 date=1336485118]<br />10 years of competitive activity in anything is a considerable length of time. Odamex is a great port, but I&#039;ve retired, so I don&#039;t consider myself a competitive player anymore. I might be in privs here and there when time allows.<br /><br />It wasn&#039;t a port change that stopped me from playing competitively. Since retiring I&#039;ve been in a much better place. Good luck to all participants in the upcoming season! :)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=660.msg6749#msg6749 date=1336488737]<br />Some of those names you listed have been playing for years. I think they have come to a point where they have played for long enough. I&#039;ve only played in 3 seasons and I already want to do something else. I can only imagine how guys like chewy, star and xen feel. Personally I have grown tired of IDL being in the forefront: many practices, meeting scheduled games, learning new maps, playing for several hours a week, yelling at people. That is why I am not going to cap during the summer. I don&#039;t have the drive to commit as I have in the past seasons and I surely don&#039;t want to end up as a half-assed captain. I don&#039;t think anyone is being a bitch. Some of us want to go do something else instead of sitting at a computer. <br /><br />Remember, it&#039;s the summer. The time where you go outside, enjoy the weather, and simply have fun. 8)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />You guys both sound like little bitches. &quot;Boo hoo I&#039;ve retired&quot; your ass is on steam playing shit every day. You&#039;d ditch your doom homeboys to play COUNTER STRIKE. That game blows dick. Sign up and win, that&#039;s how you do it.<br /><br />Rust: Why don&#039;t you just do what I did and tell your team that you can&#039;t practice, then go and do something else when you don&#039;t feel like practicing. This is a guaranteed strategy seeing as how it has won us two masterbowls.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6964, 670, 23, 1339278534, 2283, 6964, 'Re: Gray Division Results &amp; Demos', 'DevilutioN', 'balorr@hotmail.com', '120.144.31.176', 1, 0, '', 'Vs Decay<br /><br />Demos:<br />http://www.speedyshare.com/nhnpr/DecayVsDevilutioN.zip<br /><br />Screens:<br />http://s7.postimage.org/53x8ufz95/Odamex_DUEL_20120610_072734.png<br />http://s14.postimage.org/xxsp3007j/Odamex_DUEL_20120610_073701.png', 'xx', 1);
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	(6725, 657, 17, 1335811039, 214, 6725, 'Re: Change', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.23.76', 1, 0, '', 'Perhaps use the phrases: enemy flag taken/dropped/returned. Your flag taken/dropped/ returned.&nbsp; ???', 'xx', 1);
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	(7466, 723, 22, 1346610378, 214, 7467, 'Re: Simplifying a Situation', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '69.154.180.203', 1, 1346613501, 'Ru5tK1ng', '[s]Alright, I think this has gone on long enough. I&#039;m gonna go ZD Staff Mode here (namely Bones) and end this.[/s] The original intent of this topic was to talk about the administration handling the interruption caused by Tosen. Then the topic took a left turn towards Tosen and his clan and now it&#039;s doing a figure 8 and the current subject is Legion vs The World. <br /><br />It&#039;s apparent what the stance of Legion, his clan, and everyone else is. H has done nothing and they are free to do so and whatever message that sends off so be it. Legion, we understand your reluctance to do anything individually. Ok sure, you&#039;ve stated your reasons while ladna and others have stated their reasons against yours.<br /><br />Maybe certain people aren&#039;t understanding the position BBC was it. They spent several hours a day for 8 weeks to make it to the playoffs only to have it turn out like it did. Essentially it was a complete waste of time since an outside factor decided the fate of their season. Anyone who had to deal with that would be rightfully pissed. Your reluctance to do anything within your clan gives off the message that it&#039;s NOT THAT BIG of a deal. Sure, fine you didn&#039;t play and there&#039;s no law stating you should care. Once again, don&#039;t be surprised when your decision to do nearly nothing, aside from some half-assed scolding, rubs people the wrong way.<br /><br />What I think Ladna is trying to get across is that you guys are part of the IDL. If you are not going to take action within your clan in defense of the league that you take part of, don&#039;t be surprised when people shit all over you. Such actions implicate that you choose the side of your clan full of trolls over the league. Because by not doing anything other than making some forum posts, you are in essence, shitting all over the league.<br /><br />I never expected Tosen to get banned from Zandronum or any server over there. I could care less. All that I was expecting was some sort of removal of tosen, a split within the clan, or condemnation from the leader. We have gotten none of those and that&#039;s fine. The cards have been dealt and there&#039;s nothing more to do or say.<br /><br />[s]I&#039;m ending this in the style of Envision. Are many of you guys clinically retarded?[/s]', 'xx', 1);
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	(7700, 740, 17, 1349249480, 8, 7700, 'Re: Odamex Discussion', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;m fine with optional. More options = happier people = more roasting marshmallows under a rainbow together while holding hands. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(5002, 518, 30, 1318529872, 10, 5002, 'Re: IDL Radio', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '64.141.192.13', 1, 0, '', 'I look forward to listening in&nbsp; :-*', 'xx', 1);
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	(5005, 515, 17, 1318532444, 8, 5005, 'Re: New team names?', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 1318533143, 'HumanBones', 'As dew said, I came up with an idea that I thought would be a good compromise for both sides of the argument. I have to say first that I think the team names are a cornerstone of this league and not only provide a sense of continuity and organization, but also professionalism. Yes, I do take this league rather seriously when I&#039;m playing. When I was just a player, it took up just about 6 months of my year. It takes up a lot more than that now. All I have to do is mention SICL and that should be enough of an explanation as to why I&#039;m against this; how many seasons of that league were actually finished? One? The names are extremely stupid, I couldn&#039;t take that even remotely seriously if I tried. I&#039;ve seen a much greater sense of commitment (as far as a video games go) from players around the league since the franchise era and since we adopted these names. I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s the one and only reason for that, but I believe it has something to do with it.<br /><br />On the other hand, I&#039;m not a huge fan of some of the names we have.<br /><br />On to my idea, I propose that we create a pool of names each season for captains to choose from. My idea entails keeping the 12 names we have, but adding 8 new ones to form a pool of 20 possible team names. This is how it would work: returning captains get first choice as to whether or not they&#039;d like to keep their current team name. If they don&#039;t, they can choose a new one. Then, new caps could either 1) get to choose as they are confirmed as captains, or 2) announce their decision along with their first draft pick. As far as the new names, I&#039;ve seen some really great ones on here already, such as SR49ers, and MOON DOLPHINS (the best). New names could potentially be taken from some more of your suggestions.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5006, 517, 17, 1318535330, 213, 5006, 'Re: The Draft', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', 'No, Hatred, I mean 50/50.<br /><br />Jenova, you are correct.&nbsp; This would solve the problem, but there are more people than that who want to play, and we want them to be able to play.<br /><br />Ladna: &quot;There&#039;s no possible draft that can affect parity differently from any other draft.&quot;<br />Mass: &quot;A straight draft can do that. (Here is exactly how...)&quot;<br />Ladna: &quot;I&#039;m not talking about a straight draft.&quot;<br />Mass: ??<br /><br />Ladna: &quot;You can&#039;t kill somebody without touching them.&quot;<br />Mass: &quot;I can do it with a gun. (Here is exactly how...)&quot;<br />Ladna: &quot;I&#039;m not talking about guns.&quot;<br />Mass: ??<br /><br />Then you need to revise your claims.&nbsp; If you mean that a [i]snake[/i] draft can&#039;t make the league even, I know.&nbsp; (See: my posts.)<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=517.msg4983#msg4983 date=1318479595]The usual argument is that it is unfair (and that unfairness is intrinsically bad).[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5004#msg5004 date=1318532231][Making the league even] is perverse.[/quote]<br /><br />Okay.<br /><br />This is the same primitive witch-hunt claim made in every discussion about parity that evenness is necessarily unfair (to the enfranchised, the powerful, the fortunate), and that unfairness is intrinsically evil.&nbsp; But I can&#039;t argue against this anymore than I can against the claim that being a cow is intrinsically holy.&nbsp; It just isn&#039;t.&nbsp; I think evenness is a virtue, and I think fairness is evenness.&nbsp; You do not.&nbsp; That is that.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6421, 622, 17, 1331165889, 157, 6421, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '71.115.99.65', 1, 1331166012, 'Legion_', '[quote author=ItalianStallion link=topic=622.msg6401#msg6401 date=1331080314]<br />ST&#039;s ssg is just awful.&nbsp; Shoot someone point blank and they won&#039;t die.&nbsp; You probably just like it because it&#039;s so much easier to run on, because defenders are at such a disadvantage because shots that would normally kill you, won&#039;t. <br />[/quote]<br />incorrect, you should aim better (you&#039;re a defender, right? lol)<br />I have never had a problem with killing people on skulltag at all, you either have had sucky teams or you sucked. in skulltag you have to rely more heavily on your team instead of the raw skill of just one superstar. I think its all the better for that<br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=622.msg6410#msg6410 date=1331111662]<br />ST was never really built to support a hardcore competitive community. It&#039;s always been geared toward supporting more ZDoom features with some whacky gamemodes. It&#039;s survival coop is second to none and hide-and-seek has become big as well. Modes like that will prevail in ST, competitive modes like 1vs1, CTF and even TDM won&#039;t.&nbsp; <br /><br />[/quote]<br />I find this funny because pretty much any game can be hardcore competitive with the right mindset and right community. people play WOW competitively, tf2 competitively, hell they probably play tetris competitively. for example if the entire idl and mindset they have migrated to skulltag then skulltag would undergo a morph into a more diverse and a deeper skillset. unfortunately people are so stuck on a few minor differences that they cant take it seriously. for shame', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6965, 667, 23, 1339278883, 2174, 6965, 'Re: Blue Division Results &amp; Demos', 'Decay`', 'systemdecay@hotmail.ca', '99.254.95.70', 1, 0, '', 'Decay 2 - 0 Devilution<br /><br />D5M1: 50-44<br />Moo2d: 50-39<br /><br />screens: http://imgur.com/a/uAch2<br /><br />Demos: http://speedy.sh/nhnFr/vsdevilution.zip<br /><br />And thus concludes my MAC 2012 experience. GG&#039;s all!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6726, 657, 17, 1335814463, 19, 6726, 'Re: Change', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.229.76', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=654.msg6725#msg6725 date=1335811039]<br />Perhaps use the phrases: enemy flag taken/dropped/returned. Your flag taken/dropped/ returned.&nbsp; ???<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Your flag taken sounds weird to me. Maybe because it&#039;s grammatically incorrect. http://xen.unidoom.org/yourflagtaken.wav', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7701, 739, 1, 1349278040, 216, 7701, 'Re: Capo chalenges Legion :D', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '130.63.214.182', 1, 0, '', 'naut is easily the most hilarious doom player', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5010, 520, 17, 1318552194, 19, 5010, 'Priv timelimit', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.183.245', 1, 0, '', 'I do not like 15 minute games. We switched to a 10 minute format for a few days and people complained. Why? 10 minute is the IDL standard. The priv server reflects the IDL maps and the IDL server settings. I&#039;m watching a 4v4 map31 game that has 10 minutes to go and it&#039;s just 1-1.<br /><br />I&#039;m tired of grind maps burning out players and ending priv earlier rather than promoting fast, intense and risky tactics to win games with 2/3 the time limit. That and people are more likely to quit priv when 15 minute games go back to back with stalemate setups because people drag it out.<br /><br />I&#039;m pushing for 10 minutes for reasons that are not limited to those typed above!', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5011, 515, 17, 1318552213, 216, 5011, 'Re: New team names?', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '174.92.63.70', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=ItalianStallion link=topic=515.msg4997#msg4997 date=1318525042]<br />I would like to see captains chose their own team name.&nbsp; But perhaps only once they have a full roster. So choosing a name would kind of bring some sort of team unity.&nbsp; Honestly being on the brokeback cowboys for what...3, 4 seasons? Is really fucking annoying.......<br />[/quote]<br /><br />but you are a brokeback cowboy!!!', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(520, 61, 6, 1231743011, 14, 5011, 'Stats', 'Gilgamesh', 'throwitback@gmail.com', '67.172.28.107', 1, 1318554153, 'Gilgamesh', '...', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5012, 520, 17, 1318564785, 157, 5012, 'Re: Priv timelimit', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '71.115.127.61', 1, 0, '', '15 minutes<br />this is what most people are used to, and MOST maps function just fine on it', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5013, 515, 17, 1318565187, 163, 5013, 'Re: New team names?', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.133.50', 1, 0, '', '[quote=&quot;MassVC&quot;]The fact that Xen made logos doesn&#039;t morally entitle us to keeping these team names for the rest of our fucking lives.&nbsp; Xen is in favor of have the administration change some of the lamer team names, in which we will need to make new logos anyway (just not continually for future seasons).&nbsp; It&#039;s not a lack of appreciation.[/quote]<br /><br />You read into this a bit too much. It was mostly sarcasm, which to be fair, I should have made brackets denoting that. Nonetheless, I think we all appreciate what Xen has done and will continue to do for us. <br /><br />[quote=&quot;MassVC&quot;]Do you also feel sorry for people who have fun playing in a video game league, who dream of winning a a fake finals game, or who pride themselves on being the best D5M7 player?&nbsp; I&nbsp; certainly would if I thought that they thought that that&#039;s what made them matter.&nbsp; But more likely, they are just having fun with an online video game.&nbsp; Naming teams is fun.&nbsp; Deal with it.[/quote]<br /><br />It seems I struck a nerve of some sort here. Ah well, fuck you :). In all seriousness though, I&#039;m all for this discussion but I just can&#039;t help but feel like there are for more important things to discuss. I find it somewhat disappointing that out of all the threads currently active debating IDL Politics/Terms, this one has the most activity. There are other things worth discussing with much greater implications on the future of the league. If you want to matter, I suppose that&#039;s where you should start - hence my comment about mattering. <br /><br />[quote=&quot;assVC&quot;]Actually, I think it is more confusing to call Clim&#039;s team last season BSK after calling Jen&#039;s team BSK the season before.&nbsp; Let me ask you a question: was BSK a successful team?&nbsp; There&#039;s no answer because the name refers to many different teams!&nbsp; Was SNAX a successful team? No!&nbsp; I know this because I know who we&#039;re talking about.&nbsp; I&#039;d rather have one name for each team than twelve names for a hundred teams--THAT is confusing.[/quote]<br /><br />How in god&#039;s name do you find it confusing? BSK? Who&#039;s? Clims? Jen&#039;s? Oh okay. simple enough. <br /><br />Oh, wait, who? PapaDickSquad? Peanut Butter and Jelly? Jam not jelly? Chris Benoit RageTEAM? Oh okay, I literally don&#039;t know anything about those teams other than the name&#039;s are gay. <br /><br />At least with the current system, going back in time associating these names to static teams gives it a better sense of organization. For example, most people forget I&#039;ve been drafted in previous seasons. Do you remember me being a part of cM? Do you remember me being a part of SOM? What about DNO? No, but you certainly remember me being a part of DMR and EBL. <br /><br />The second option is far easier to depict. And quite frankly, it just looks better. And I don&#039;t really have to argue that because it just does.<br /><br />Back to being serious though: either way it seems we have two opposite stances on a sense of organization and specification here. Fair enough, to each his own. <br /><br />I agree with you, we should have fun. But I prefer to have fun by actually playing and organizing practices/matches and having the adrenaline rush they tend to give you. Would naming my team&#039;s name be fun? It would be kind of cool but I&#039;d just rather stick to a system that has that laid out already so we&#039;re not spending time on approving names/discussing them when we could be doing more productive things.<br /><br />I&#039;ll give you this, Mass. I do believe some of the names are lame and wouldn&#039;t necessarily be against changing them so they have a more DooMish feel. But I feel like that&#039;s something that can be addressed later rather than now.<br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5014, 519, 17, 1318565485, 38, 5014, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'Sabertooth', 'ssj4chazou@hotmail.com', '74.91.64.154', 1, 0, '', 'To add to Ralph&#039;s list.<br /><br />Those players who can take their team to another level when that team&#039;s chips are down. To bring your team back from the brink of losing should defiantly put a chip on your shoulder.<br /><br />I normally don&#039;t participate in these kinds of things because they just make me sick.&nbsp; ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5015, 520, 17, 1318565630, 163, 5015, 'Re: Priv timelimit', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.133.50', 1, 0, '', 'Both have their pros and cons. 15 minutes can be great or extremely bad. 10 minutes can be extremely quick and seem to have lackluster endings. Blah blah blah<br /><br />I&#039;ll go with this: 10 minutes gets more games played and gives others more opportunities to play. I&#039;m not totally in favor of 15 minutes but I&#039;ll stick with 10 because of just that.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5899, 581, 17, 1326360216, 163, 5899, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.135.214', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Chain link=topic=581.msg5891#msg5891 date=1326351536]<br />Jamie why didn&#039;t you just do all this writing in high school? Ugh.<br /><br />Also we need a new version anyway, because team names are different and we absolutely [b]must[/b] reflect the new team logos in the intermission image. &gt;:(<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I didn&#039;t even write that much, quit being a baby!<br /><br />Secondly, what new logos? I haven&#039;t seen any new ones yet! I am crap and will upload MSpaint logo instantly!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6199, 606, 17, 1328978908, 8, 6199, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'Three people have incurred demo infractions this season. One of them twice. That post makes it seem like every game this season is a 40v1 extravaganza. Keep providing the rain, and we&#039;ll keep providing the parade.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6422, 622, 17, 1331167016, 19, 6422, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.230.203', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=622.msg6421#msg6421 date=1331165889]<br />incorrect, you should aim better (you&#039;re a defender, right? lol)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />http://skulltag.net/tracker/view.php?id=31#c131', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6751, 660, 22, 1336495597, 19, 6751, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.227.74', 1, 1336496010, 'Xenaero', 'I don&#039;t play competitively anymore. That doesn&#039;t mean I can&#039;t play a pub game of CS or TF2 every now and then. Do you think I&#039;m playing in organized, high level matches in other games?<br /><br />That kind of toxic attitude doesn&#039;t help in persuading me to play in the IDL. If anything, it would drive potential players away.<br /><br />I also don&#039;t think you can call me out for sounding like a &#039;little bitch&#039; for not playing when you&#039;ve been absent from the IDL lately yourself, despite clearly having the time to troll constantly and many players requesting you play. Maybe you should sign up this season! :)<br /><br />edit: Note to Administrators, remove the IDL Board title from my user, it wouldn&#039;t be right to keep displaying it!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7702, 742, 24, 1349290890, 8, 7702, 'Re: Vengeance CTF Tournament Introduction', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'The Vengeance wad has been released: http://humanbones.unidoom.org/vengeancectf/veng2012.zip<br /><br />Currently the wad is hosted on these servers:<br /><br />:: [IDL] Chicago :: Vengeance CTF Tournament A -http://intldoomleague.org: 74.91.122.209:14000<br />:: [IDL] Chicago :: Vengeance CTF Tournament B -http://intldoomleague.org: 74.91.122.209:14001<br /><br />The password to these servers is veng2012.<br /><br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8097, 786, 17, 1357607828, 2257, 8097, 'Re: Real talk.', 'Shogun', 'CHAOSCyberCat666@yahoo.com', '23.29.8.13', 1, 0, '', 'Dewww you are a big fgt<br /><br />also Capo smells', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5016, 520, 17, 1318565680, 214, 5016, 'Re: Priv timelimit', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '69.154.187.102', 1, 0, '', '10 minute is the IDL standard. 3v3 is also the IDL standard but priv is usually 4&#039;s or 5&#039;s. I don&#039;t know about you, but if I find a match boring to watch, I go read or do something until I hear the intro screen come up.<br /><br />10 minutes goes by way too fast for a grind map and most people find themselves wishing the extra 5 mins were there unless its a really shitty map like 32 (screw you Ralphis).<br /><br />Risky tactics or anything can take some time to be successful in a match. But i do agree some maps are better off with 10 minutes but overall 15 seems to work better. I don&#039;t think there is any way to set time limits for certain maps...maybe we should post a feature request on the zd forums. ;D', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8515, 844, 29, 1361592604, 214, 8807, 'February ''13 Onslaught Winners', 'RustInPeace', 'ru5tk1ng@yahoo.com', '70.241.30.89', 1, 1364441827, 'Ru5tK1ng', 'Hello all,<br /><br />All the pick-ups for this month&#039;s tournament have been completed. Therefore I will reveal the winners of the event:<br /><br />1st: Ru5tK1ng<br />2nd: HumanBones<br />3rd: Shane<br /><br />Congrats to all that took part and hopefully more of you will take part in next month&#039;s yet to be decided event. In the meantime I am contemplating about a mini event to run next week for those of you who couldn&#039;t make the pick-ups. In any case, I&#039;ll post the results:<br /><br />http://rust.unidoom.org/compet/febcoll2013/febcollranking2013.htm<br /><br />ggs<br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5018, 520, 17, 1318566857, 38, 5018, 'Re: Priv timelimit', 'Sabertooth', 'ssj4chazou@hotmail.com', '74.91.64.154', 1, 0, '', 'Considering most priv games are played 4v4 I think it would be smart to just leave it at 15 since 4v4s tend to need a little bit more time to get the action rolling. <br /><br />That is why we play priv anyway right? ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5019, 515, 17, 1318571671, 130, 5019, 'Re: New team names?', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=HumanBones link=topic=515.msg5005#msg5005 date=1318532444]<br />I think the team names are a cornerstone of this league and not only provide a sense of continuity and organization, but also professionalism. Yes, I do take this league rather seriously when I&#039;m playing.[/quote]<br /><br />What is professional about a doom league using reappropriated NFL names. Also, as Mass pointed out, we aren&#039;t professionals. Making this league fun should be the #1 priority. I also take IDL seriously, probably more so than most, and I think that letting people personalize their team names is a step toward retaining players and captains. It&#039;s also just plain more fun.<br /><br />[quote]All I have to do is mention SICL and that should be enough of an explanation as to why I&#039;m against this[/quote]<br />and<br />[quote]I&#039;ve seen a much greater sense of commitment (as far as a video games go) from players around the league since the franchise era and since we adopted these names.[/quote]<br /><br />The 2nd 3rd and 4th seasons of IDL weren&#039;t anything like SICL. And I would know I played in a lot of both. SICL was poorly run from an administrative standpoint. This has nothing to do with the team name argument that I can see. If there is some other reference to why random names would make us like SICL then I guess we can compare all FPS leagues to that archetype. Professionalism doesn&#039;t come in team name form. See Envy&#039;s MB team the Deep Thrusts. That team beat up a nostar/potent squad and a bones/ralphis squad. <br /><br />[quote]We [The IDL Board] create a pool of names each season for captains to choose from. My idea entails keeping the 12 names we have, but adding 8 new ones to form a pool of 20 possible team names.[/quote]<br /><br />This more or less coincides with option #2 of the poll, wherein the board picks new names for the teams to replace some of the ones they [the board] dislike. First, this isn&#039;t a compromise. If anything it&#039;s just patronizing the people who voted to allow captains to choose their own names. This allows captains to pick from names that the board okays, which as we&#039;ve seen, will most likely retain the NFL themed nonsense. I fucking love the NFL, I really do. It&#039;s just not a compromise, it&#039;s over-governance by the IDL board and it&#039;s unfun. A lot of people agree. Option #3 is more of a compromise because the player base actually gets to come up with the names as opposed to being subject to the humor, wit and creativity of the IDL Administration. I assure you guys it&#039;s few and far between.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=515.msg5013#msg5013 date=1318565187]<br />You read into this a bit too much. It was mostly sarcasm, which to be fair, I should have made brackets denoting that. Nonetheless, I think we all appreciate what Xen has done and will continue to do for us. [/quote]<br /><br />I assure you Xen was 100% serious when he talks about the logos. Dude DOES NOT FUCK AROUND when it comes to logos.<br /><br />[quote]In all seriousness though, I&#039;m all for this discussion but I just can&#039;t help but feel like there are for more important things to discuss.&#91;] I find it somewhat disappointing that out of all the threads currently active debating IDL Politics/Terms, this one has the most activity. There are other things worth discussing with much greater implications on the future of the league. If you want to matter, I suppose that&#039;s where you should start - hence my comment about mattering. [/quote]<br /><br /><br />The board does more than one thing at a time. The fact that this thread has become populated is an indication that it has a greater degree of importance to more people than the other threads. I personally believe this is the third most important issue in IDL right now, right after captain selection and map selection. IDL is about being fun, and naming your own team is fun. If you don&#039;t believe me just ask Bones, or Chain or Xen. Their previous team names are used in IDL to this day.<br /><br />[quote]How in god&#039;s name do you find it confusing? BSK? Who&#039;s? Clims? Jen&#039;s? Oh okay. simple enough.[/quote]<br /><br />It&#039;s confusing because BSK means two different things. Just like if I said that the word orange also means banana that would be confusing. BSK under Jenova was a completely different team than BSK under Clim or even BSK under Bones. They&#039;re only substantive similarity is that they were an IDL team, and that similarity can be shared by every other team, making it meaningless as a method to distinguish what BSK is. I&#039;d be willing to deal with captains having to stick with their team name for continuity&#039;s sake. I&#039;m cool with that personally. I actually think it helps with statistics, certainly more so than letting Bones&#039; BSK and Clim&#039;s BSK represent the same statistical weight under the heading &quot;BSK&#039;s All-time IDL Record&quot;. That makes zero sense to me.<br /><br />[quote]Oh okay, I literally don&#039;t know anything about those teams other than the name&#039;s are gay. [/quote]<br /><br />You thinking something is gay is not a reason IDL should decide not to do it. Furthermore you haven&#039;t explained why the Chris Benoit RageTEAM isn&#039;t a good name. The dude strangled his wife or something. That should strike fear into the hearts of many. <br /><br />[quote]At least with the current system, going back in time associating these names to static teams gives it a better sense of organization. For example, most people forget I&#039;ve been drafted in previous seasons. Do you remember me being a part of cM? Do you remember me being a part of SOM? What about DNO? No, but you certainly remember me being a part of DMR and EBL. [/quote]<br /><br />You&#039;re using a false premise. Assuming that the reason I don&#039;t remember you on the cM is because of the team name is fallacious. I don&#039;t remember anyone on cM. And it isn&#039;t from the name cM. It&#039;s because you guys were forgettable. Remembering is about importance or duration of time. cM doesn&#039;t meet either of those criteria, and DMR and EBL are in the recent past. I remember TDC was Shak Chow and Whopper, I remember CMS was Rott DG and Dosu. I remember BSK was Chain Roak and Rott. These are things of importance. <br /><br />To be honest I think there are a couple of things more pressing than team names. But this is important too. Look at the poll. People actually care about this. I personally don&#039;t give a shit about the names, but I think giving players what they&#039;re asking for is a good thing. A majority of the players who voted want to pick their own team names. Let&#039;s let them. If you don&#039;t want to, you don&#039;t have to. The NFL set we have can remain the default for all of those who choose to let them. Let the people who captain decide what they want their team to be called. It&#039;s really not unreasonable.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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VALUES 
	(5020, 519, 17, 1318572074, 11, 5020, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'Doomguy666', 'xdoomguy666x@hotmail.com', '76.198.242.31', 1, 0, '', 'I appreciate the responses... was just curious on people&#039;s opinions.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5021, 519, 17, 1318574291, 130, 5021, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', 'DG this is a good question. I have an idea of what Ralph means really when he says elite. Usually I think about the players in priv who get picked 1st consistently. I think that most players who play in IDL can make clutch plays, and a lot of frag stats are misleading but the other things Ralph mentioned are pretty spot on. The list changes periodically. 2 years ago I wouldn&#039;t have put Jen or Stallion on it, now I would. Lb has been ridiculous for over two decades but just now he&#039;s getting the press he deserves, and the championships to match. The elite players are people who play doom at a high level consistently. They&#039;re early 1st round players and recurring playoff captains. At this moment I&#039;d say there are less than 10 total so when Ralph talks about elite players making a huge difference he probably has a smaller list than I do. ', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5900, 581, 17, 1326378755, 214, 5900, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.25.90', 1, 0, '', '@Mike<br /><br />You know I might be right or wrong in certain aspects. The board members are more than welcomed to post and set things straight. It&#039;ll at least prove you guys read the forums.<br /><br />As for your suggestion of volunteering or contributing, what can we do? You already have a wad (Ralph&#039;s) that is more than anything your average IDL player could put together. If you wanna save Mass the trouble and save players from wrecking their brains over how to fix map04, then just use the said wad. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6200, 606, 17, 1328978983, 163, 6200, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.132.224', 1, 0, '', '[quote=&quot;Ladna&quot;]<br />2.&nbsp; It&#039;s seriously extremely simple to record &amp; upload a demo.[/quote]<br /><br />This.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6728, 657, 17, 1335824341, 209, 6728, 'Re: Odamex Announcer', 'AlexMax', 'alexmax2742@gmail.com', '71.71.255.27', 1, 1335824517, 'AlexMax', 'Your/Their vs. Red/Blue is bike-shedding.&nbsp; Both are valid opinions to have, and frankly it should be up to the players to decide which they prefer.&nbsp; If anybody wants to try their hand at contributing to Odamex, a patch that allows you to switch between the two types of announcer and the default non-announcer CTF sounds would probably be a very easy thing for a first contribution (aside from getting the announcer sounds themselves sorted out, but that doesn&#039;t have to be part of it).<br /><br />That said I kinda agree that the Team Arena announcer in ovox1a isn&#039;t that great.&nbsp; My dream ovox would be one that has the Female UT2004 announcer for Red/Blue, Vanilla Quake 3 announcer for Yours/Theirs and the Q2CTF sounds for the no-announcer sounds.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6752, 660, 22, 1336498624, 158, 6752, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '173.206.84.255', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;m sorry Xenaero, it seems you&#039;ve misinterpreted my attempt in persuading you to join for another season as a personal attack. Now stop being a little bitch and join next season.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6771, 658, 22, 1336626158, 16, 6771, 'Re: IDL Summer 2012 Signups', 'Tai', 'Tai223236@yahoo.com', '98.216.91.67', 1, 0, '', 'Name: Tai<br />Country/State: Connecticut<br />Email Contact: Tai223236@yahoo.com<br />IRC Contact: QuakeNet: #idl, #renegades Skulltag: #skulltag, #coop<br />Regular Availability: Most evenings', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5023, 518, 30, 1318576067, 163, 5023, 'Re: IDL Radio', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.133.50', 1, 0, '', 'Yeah and it was actually really decent in quality. I did notice the lag-time though but you won&#039;t unless you call in and listen to the stream at the same time :p.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5017, 518, 30, 1318565760, 163, 5017, 'Re: IDL Radio', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.133.50', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;ll be at work so the only way I could do so is via Cellphone..<br />There&#039;s not an option to do that is there? If so, I&#039;ll gladly disappear from my desk for a few minutes. :)', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5026, 519, 17, 1318608724, 147, 5026, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'LordBritish', 'a_west_2007@hotmail.com', '24.209.35.212', 1, 0, '', 'I think we all have our own lists, but I like Ralph&#039;s tidbit.&nbsp; Also you can add in:<br /><br />[list]<br />[li]Players who can force an opposing team to completely overhaul their strategy[/li]<br />[li]Players who intimidate the fuck out of opposition[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />As an aside, I&#039;d like to mention that chewy is the only one who falls into the latter bullet point for me.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5027, 520, 17, 1318609819, 75, 5027, 'Re: Priv timelimit', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'how about keeping 15min and overriding it to 10 just for a select few repetitive grinds like 31?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5901, 581, 17, 1326381067, 19, 5901, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.113.34', 1, 0, '', 'There&#039;s nothing really to set straight. This is a big mess.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y1JX6jHoDU', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5028, 519, 17, 1318611305, 38, 5028, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'Sabertooth', 'ssj4chazou@hotmail.com', '74.91.64.154', 1, 1318611711, 'Sabertooth', '[quote author=LordBritish link=topic=519.msg5026#msg5026 date=1318608724]<br /><br />[list]<br />[li]Players who can force an opposing team to completely overhaul their strategy[/li]<br />[li]Players who intimidate the fuck out of opposition[/li]<br />[/list]<br /><br />As an aside, I&#039;d like to mention that chewy is the only one who falls into the latter bullet point for me.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I like these just a simple name striking fear into the other team or well maybe not fear but at least concern. <br /><br />For instance I&#039;m sure some players tense up when the thought of facing Nostar or Stallion on D, or when going face to face with Jenova zombie running at you, and of course my ego won&#039;t let me finish this without talking about yours truly.<br /><br />I know I haven&#039;t been playing at the level I use to, but I bet a lot of teams go into games hoping I don&#039;t pull something out of my big sack of goodies and tricks I carry around. Like stealing what should have been a win right out from under them.<br /><br />A lot of players have those little things about them that make them &quot;Elite&quot; and that is why the IDL is where the big boys play.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <br /><br />[quote author=MassVC] Saber is the father of all egos.[/quote]', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5029, 519, 17, 1318618347, 158, 5029, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '199.246.39.22', 1, 0, '', 'Just to spite Hatred, I&#039;m the best in Doom.<br /><br />People with a strong understanding of maps/plays (people like Ralphis and Nostar) would be considered. Also, most people can be &quot;elite&quot; if they just literally think shit through. Just be a step ahead, know what to do at what times.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6201, 606, 17, 1328979708, 10, 6201, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '64.141.192.13', 1, 0, '', 'Archiving purposes is way better than even checking for cheating to me. My one regret with the IDL, in retrospect, was not storing demos of every game from every team since the beginning. It&#039;s kind of like baseball vs. football. There is baseball footage dating all the way back to the early 1900s while much of the early NFL games went unrecorded for decades. If I ever start up a new league or something similar, demos will be required by all players from the start just for this very reason.<br /><br />Also, even if it was for cheating, what happens when you ask somebody for a demo and everyone starts snapping on you because they think you&#039;re accusing them of cheating? Earlier this season, a week-long rift between two league &quot;cliques&quot; popped up just because I asked mikehail to leave a server we were practicing in. Guess what will happen once an admin starts asking for demos from high profile players? If you&#039;re going to have to record and store a demo locally anyway, it doesn&#039;t make sense not to upload it.<br /><br />ALSO, like someone else said, there have only been two demo violators this season through 30 games.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6423, 624, 20, 1331167131, 130, 6423, 'Re: Regular Season Awards Discussion', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', 'I can think you had a good season as captain and still not think you&#039;re a good captain in general. I think that is valid. <br /><br />Also what dewww and I are saying is we think that &quot;lumping&quot; of categories is stupid and devalues the ROY award, which as I said, is indicative of very specific things. My solution to that was to have 2 different categories and I posted a nominee for both.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=624.msg6417#msg6417 date=1331156647]<br />The only reason why I gave him [b]breakout player of the year award[/b] was because he had his best statistical season ever. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />You mean because he was on your team AND had his best statistical season ever? While he did have his best season statistically he isn&#039;t far off from his previous stats. Not out of line with a stats bump someone might get playing on a better team. Furthermore lots of guys had their best statistical season ever. You, Chaindude and Prime all had your best statistical seasons ever. However one of those players was on a team that wasn&#039;t stacked, lost their first rounder and still won his division. Another one of those players broke the all-time flag cap record by means you wish to diminish for some reason. Even you are a better breakout candidate for coming off of 3 losing seasons, 2 as a captain, and going undefeated. I think Blood had a good season. I think he had a good season last year and the year before too, and yeah his rookie season that he won the MB wasn&#039;t too shabby either. I think if you want to gives these awards on merits you arguments are weak. Then again say what you want. They are just opinions.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6729, 654, 18, 1335842841, 209, 6729, 'Re: Change', 'AlexMax', 'alexmax2742@gmail.com', '71.71.255.27', 1, 0, '', 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL4MGwlZuAc', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6753, 660, 22, 1336500556, 34, 6753, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'GhostlyDeath', 'ghostlydeath@gmail.com', '75.109.9.76', 1, 0, '', 'I signed up!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6772, 660, 22, 1336672408, 75, 6772, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'i don&#039;t see how this is supposed to attract any of the listed gentlemen.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6968, 671, 22, 1339289123, 214, 6968, 'Re: S2012 Invite List', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.22.228', 1, 0, '', 'Oh no. With capo now gone there is a large chunk of heart missing from the league. Due to his absence, the chance of the league collapsing mid-season is very likely. However I&#039;ll be more than happy to take his spot to ensure the survival of the league. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7704, 743, 24, 1349291634, 75, 7715, 'Re: Vengeance Sign Ups', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 1349470492, 'dew', '[b]Team Name:[/b] [color=red]A[/color] [color=red]N[/color]ame [color=red]T[/color]hat [color=red]I[/color]mplies [color=red]WIN[/color]ning<br /><br />[b]Captain:[/b] dew<br /><br />[b]Members:[/b] Nosturi, Gyrossman, turSKA, Fluffles<br /><br />[b]Contact:[/b] #idlb', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5902, 576, 18, 1326399221, 222, 5902, 'Re: The New IDL Reserve League', 'Cecil', 'DarkCecil05@gmail.com', '76.3.95.39', 1, 0, '', 'Reminds me of NBA D-League. I kinda like this idea.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5064, 517, 17, 1318824012, 10, 5064, 'Re: The Draft', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 0, '', '[b]Fun fact:[/b] Only 4/10 teams have ever won the entire league with teams built entirely from the draft. Those teams are:<br /><br />TBA<br />RNB<br />Jenova&#039;s BSKs<br /><br />Almost every other single winner has acquired their final roster through trades, including all three teams during the franchise seasons and last season. How exactly is the draft broken?', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5030, 519, 17, 1318620697, 163, 5030, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.133.50', 1, 1318620826, 'Hatred', '[quote=&quot;Jenova&quot;]Just to spite Hatred, I&#039;m the best in Doom.[/quote]<br /><br />I do it out of love.<br /><br />I don&#039;t think this necessarily applies to every elite player but one thing I&#039;ve noticed with guys like Chew, JKist3, etc. is that they are always calm and collected. As a result, in serious games (not priv), I try to do the same. :p<br /><br />Experience certainly helps, too. Knowing what to expect, doing everything you possibly can just to create havoc for the other team, making veteran savvy plays, etc all contributes as well. <br /><br />Versatility. Look at guys like Ralph, Whiteboy, Chew. These guys have been at great at everything from being runners or defending. A nice shot plus veteran savvy helps this, too ;).<br /><br />Overall, there are tons of things you could associate as elite traits, statistically and non-statistically alike. Generally, I think there&#039;s just almost a universal understanding of who is elite and who isn&#039;t. Let&#039;s just call it that &quot;it&quot; factor. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6424, 624, 20, 1331167545, 75, 6424, 'Re: Regular Season Awards Discussion', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Hatred link=topic=624.msg6417#msg6417 date=1331156647][quote=&quot;dew&quot;]typical dew rage[/quote][/quote]<br />nonsense. you are trying to make me sound ridiculous and overly emotional, but the fact is - you are still picking your homeboy over players with the &quot;exact&quot; same traits and better stats. every blood&#039;s quality you mentioned goes twice for chaindude, so i guess he should be the breakout/rookie player of the year. but that would give pause even to you, wouldn&#039;t it?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6730, 657, 17, 1335891041, 75, 6730, 'Re: Odamex Announcer', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'i&#039;m not saying the quake scheme cannot be tweaked to work with doom, but IT DOES NOT currently. it is a horrible mess of &quot;the enemy flag has taken your flag&quot;. doom is too fast paced for the current vox.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6754, 660, 22, 1336507096, 15, 6754, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'ItalianStallion', 'stalliondoom@gmail.com', '72.53.140.59', 1, 0, '', 'To further prove my dominance over nostar, I&#039;ll gladly take control over WAD.&nbsp; Since I can&#039;t play against myself, I can&#039;t see this team losing in the post season.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6202, 606, 17, 1328997113, 4, 6202, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '98.250.101.180', 1, 0, '', 'I literally do not understand how people are even having demo infractions in the first place. You have IDE record it for you automatically with one click to turn on recording, and after the game you upload it to the IDL site with like two or three clicks and you&#039;re done. It&#039;s amazing that this is an issue at all.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5313, 532, 17, 1321005331, 75, 5313, 'Re: A CTF Guide For The New Guys', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'another useful standoff hint:<br />if your runner is a weak shot, he should consider suiciding and passing the flag to the main D. he will last longer and the primary O will probably find the opposing flag carrier faster (does not apply if he&#039;s a weak shot just because he&#039;s a newb).', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5031, 520, 17, 1318625717, 0, 5031, 'Re: Priv timelimit', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.14.174', 1, 0, '', 'Voted 15 by accident but I much prefer 10.&nbsp; If I have to play 31 for 15mins I just want to quit.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5032, 515, 17, 1318625855, 0, 5032, 'Re: New team names?', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.14.174', 1, 0, '', 'This discussion is shocking because how serious it is.&nbsp; I was always of the opinion letting captains name their own team&#039;s was fun (and rarely too vulgar).&nbsp; Pro sports teams keep the same rosters, management, and location often for years so it makes sense to keep the same name.&nbsp; IDL teams each season are very different even if the captain stays.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5033, 517, 17, 1318627245, 0, 5033, 'Re: The Draft', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.14.174', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg4978#msg4978 date=1318461226]The goal of the draft is not to make a Ladna vs. Ralphis matchup always 50/50 odds.&nbsp; Rather, it&#039;s to make it so that one day it can be.[/quote]<br /><br />I don&#039;t understand you here.&nbsp; What do you mean by one day?&nbsp; I think Hatred says people just need to play more and get better but not everyone can.&nbsp; Ladna could play the rest of his life and probably not ever be as good as Ralphis (Ralphis will keep playing and getting better too) but Ladna is a great guy, done tons for the IDL, and is not a bad player by any means.&nbsp; Why shouldn&#039;t Ladna have a fair shot at the Masterbowl?&nbsp; At least one of the the players on Ladna&#039;s MB team would have to be good as Ralphis and Ralphis&#039;s other draft picks that season for his team to win.&nbsp; How will that ever happen with the disparity in captain skills of Ladna and Ralphis unless changes are made in the draft?<br /><br />I don&#039;t think trying to do 50/50 odds between all captains is bad.&nbsp; I think it&#039;s great because we already are trying that and not doing it yet.&nbsp; Why not take further steps along to parity?&nbsp; I doubt any of the changes listed so far will get the league anywhere near 50/50 odds.<br /><br />[quote author=Jenova link=topic=517.msg4984#msg4984 date=1318482436]<br />You have to cut the fat. I&#039;m just going to throw this out there and all of you are probably going to disagree, but finding 8 [b]good[/b] captains can be achieved. If we have enough good players sign up, (at least 16 with 8 teams) with 8 good captains to back these teams, then IDL would be a lot better. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />IDL should always be about how many people want to play and what teams they can support instead of what quality captains there are.&nbsp; That&#039;s just another form of ranking if you say we only have 9 good captains so we only get 8 teams but we have players to fill 12.&nbsp; Doing that is just going to quickly kill off the IDL as players can&#039;t play when they want to.<br /><br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=517.msg4985#msg4985 date=1318487908]Elite players like JKist3(when he played)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />JKist isn&#039;t any elite player in CTF.&nbsp; He doesn&#039;t even give a fuck unless he&#039;s on team NS.<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5004#msg5004 date=1318532231]<br />It&#039;s also popular to lament the fact that you&#039;re a good player, and you might get on a bad team.&nbsp; The answer to this is [b]captain your own team![/b].&nbsp; When Fast was on Nero&#039;s team, I told him exactly this, and it&#039;s still true.&nbsp; Either you captain your own team, or you take your chances in the draft like every other player.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Since people keep bringing this SPE team, I&#039;ll have to keep talking about it.&nbsp; I was Nero&#039;s franchise, we both agreed to it.&nbsp; One of the agreements we made for me to play on SPE was that he was to pick JKist (a huge mistake in retrospect) and not trade him under any circumstances.&nbsp; Nero agreed to this, then later relented on it to trade JKist away.&nbsp; I quit SPE as a result of him going back on his original agreement to have me as a franchise player for the season.&nbsp; People like to label me as a quiter and trash me but I had no problems playing on SPE and losing all season until Nero dishonored his agreement.&nbsp; Franchise players are not drafted so if we make special deals with captains in order to play for them that&#039;s between the captain and the franchisee.&nbsp; I played all season on TNMT whose record was 2-6 IIRC.<br /><br />I can understand people disagreeing with certain methods and means but I think more parity is good for the league.&nbsp; The reason this league is so good is because it does have some parity.&nbsp; The reason clans are so lame and horrible about playing each other is because often they do not have parity (or anything close to it).&nbsp; More parity will make people much more interested in the IDL and want to play.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6773, 660, 22, 1336692202, 2121, 6773, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'chow', 'donotreply@linuxmail.org', '99.119.77.122', 1, 0, '', '[img]http://i.imgur.com/YyKQn.jpg[/img]', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6969, 136, 1, 1339363146, 75, 6969, 'Re: It''s coming', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[img]http://i.imgur.com/Z2FTx.gif[/img]', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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VALUES 
	(7356, 716, 17, 1345697186, 2303, 7356, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'Watermelon', 'watermelonst@hotmail.com', '99.242.222.134', 1, 0, '', 'What is your stance on making more space for new maps by removing ones that already are included and duplicated by MBx maps, like:<br /><br />MB2 = MAP08<br />MB5 = MAP13<br />MB6 = MAP22<br />MB7 = MAP30<br />MB8 = MAP03<br />MB9 = MAP26<br />MB10 = MAP29<br /><br />Depending on how many [i]quality[/i] submissions are given, some of these could be removed since the MB ones will be kept anyways. I doubt with the maps to be axed that there&#039;d be that many new maps, but what are your thoughts on potentially making space one day by replacing the popular maps with these knowing they will forever hold place in the MBx map section? <br /><br /><br /><br />@Ralphis:<br />Please make your music an additional wad for download separately from the pack for free brownie points.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7470, 719, 22, 1346619230, 17, 7470, 'Re: Season 12 / Summer 2012 Playoffs - Conference Wildcards - Discussion and Results', 'MionicDonut', 'Sparx7300@yahoo.com', '131.156.232.170', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=719.msg7392#msg7392 date=1346341829]<br />I think BBC is probably the fourth best team in the league. I also think they&#039;re going to lose in the wild card in a huge upset. I could be wrong. I.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />This is in no way suspicious.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(7705, 740, 17, 1349303630, 16, 7705, 'Re: Odamex Discussion', 'Tai', 'Tai223236@yahoo.com', '98.216.91.67', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=HumanBones link=topic=740.msg7700#msg7700 date=1349249480]<br />I&#039;m fine with optional. More options = happier people = more roasting marshmallows under a rainbow together while holding hands.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I first read that as roasting nublets lol but marshmellows are good too. <br /><br />I have no comment on being shot dead after going around a corner and clearly not being seen. Please fix. Thanks.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7842, 716, 17, 1353189235, 214, 7842, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '65.68.74.121', 1, 1353189871, 'Ru5tK1ng', 'Ah silly me , I forgot to announce the winners of this year&#039;s contest. I&#039;ve been way too busy. Anyway, for those who have played the latest beta of the 2013 idl wad, it&#039;s no surprise who the winners are.<br /><br />Congratulations to Decay(1st map), Frank and Mephisto(1st map). Your maps will be included in the IDL2013 wad. Who knows, maybe one of these maps will be on the regular season schedule.<br /><br />For anyone who is interested here is the final version of this year&#039;s contest wad:<br /><br />http://rust.unidoom.org/idlmapcontest2012.zip<br /><br />Thanks to all participants. When I have more time, I&#039;ll put all the maps from this year and last year to good use. See you next year(maybe)!', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6425, 624, 20, 1331168285, 19, 6425, 'Re: Regular Season Awards Discussion', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.230.203', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;m the break-in player of the year cause I gotta break in peoples houses to use their internet ha ha whoopeeeee<br /><br />[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/ownsociety/Head20on20Desk.jpg[/img]', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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VALUES 
	(6731, 655, 22, 1335977427, 2197, 6731, 'Re: Summer 2012 Changes', 'Merk', 'merk21582@yahoo.com', '65.28.234.164', 1, 0, '', 'WOOT!', 'clip', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6755, 660, 22, 1336508337, 2084, 6755, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'EmZee712', 'Aishiteru712@yahoo.com', '98.218.137.45', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;d certainly like to see more sign-ups too, this being my first year having actually signed myself, I would like to play in the IDL as if it were back on ZDaemon. Sure Odamex is growing up still, but hell it&#039;s gotten updates up the ass just about every single week, and is getting touched by everyone like a russian tranny prostitute.<br /><br />And you gotta admit that Odamex is going somewhere if the entire IDL board has reached the verdict to move the whole league over to it, that or Ralphis did a lot of ass kissing. In any case I want this season to be just as active as any other, because thats why we&#039;re all here to have ourselves a good ol&#039; time because we obviously have nothing else to do since we&#039;re all playing this shitty 1993 game.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6774, 658, 22, 1336698541, 2257, 6837, 'Re: IDL Summer 2012 Signups', 'Shogun', 'CHAOSCyberCat666@yahoo.com', '23.29.5.38', 1, 1337558495, 'Shogun', 'Name: RedWizard<br />Country/State: USA, CA<br />Email Contact: CHAOSCyberCat666@yahoo.com<br />IM Contact: QuakeNet #idl<br />Regular Availability: Most evenings', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5036, 518, 30, 1318628171, 0, 5036, 'Re: IDL Radio', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.14.174', 1, 0, '', 'I support this.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5039, 515, 17, 1318631505, 147, 5039, 'Re: New team names?', 'LordBritish', 'a_west_2007@hotmail.com', '24.209.35.212', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=nostar] Pretty much every thought I ever had on the issue.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Will you marry me?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5903, 581, 17, 1326401254, 213, 5903, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', 'Some points:<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]However it contained changes that the board did not vote on.[/quote]<br /><br />Actually the board did vote on them, twice.&nbsp; Once before constructing the initial version of the wad, and again after testing it for several weeks.&nbsp; These were the results of the initial votes:<br /><br />Map28 Spawns (with Humanbones acting as our 5th board member in Mikehail&#039;s temporary absence): 3 for 5 spawns (Mass, Xen, Dew), and 2 for 2 spawns (Nostar, Humanbones)<br /><br />Map32 Textures: 1 for new textures (Dew), and 4 for old textures (Mass, Xen, Nostar, Mikehail)<br /><br />The second set of votes were insufficient to overturn these.<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]a poll was even made that reflects that most players hate the mspaint textures[/quote]<br /><br />Actually, 15 out of 72 players (3 of whom dropped out) is not even close to being most of the players, not to mention the opinions (whether included in the 15 or not) of players like Mikehail and Jenova who did not sign up this season (and whose opinions count also).&nbsp; The poll was taken from a sample of people who were upset about the map changes.&nbsp; The ones that didn&#039;t care, like me, didn&#039;t vote, and it looks like there were at least 54 of them.<br /><br />If you pull 3 marbles out of a 100-marble bag, and 2 of them are black, that doesn&#039;t &quot;indicate&quot; that most of the marbles are black.<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]Now Ralphis` wad did include the past masterbowl maps in a special slot and thankfully it was kept in place in a less redundant manner in v2 of idl2012.[/quote]<br /><br />We also voted on and decided to include those maps.<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]Has mod music that bloats the wad[/quote]<br /><br />Actually, Ralphis&#039;s version of the WAD is 89.6 MB while mine is 75.6 MB.<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]Has mspaint map32[/quote]<br /><br />That is actually what the map looks like, and there are much uglier maps in idl2012.<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]Has an untested proctf map[/quote]<br /><br />Nah, we played it in skulltag.<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]So this begs the question[/quote]<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]Oh and Alex would like his map named properly and I understand.[/quote]<br /><br />An interesting question is how far map authors should be respected.&nbsp; Alex&#039;s map should have the correct name because he worked hard on that map and it is an excellent map.&nbsp; On the other hand, Caboose intended to have 5 spawns and Exl intended for his map to have the colors he gave it, and those both seem even more important to respecting an author&#039;s work than having the correct name of a map.&nbsp; You can&#039;t have it both ways without committing [i]ad hoc[/i] fallacies.&nbsp; Arguments about precedence don&#039;t work either.&nbsp; Maybe I can leave Alex&#039;s map misnamed for a year and we can all play on it until the misnomer becomes an IDL classic!<br /><br />[hr][hr]<br /><br />The point:<br /><br />Rust&#039;s story isn&#039;t quite accurate.&nbsp; Every year the IDL administration decides through one means or another to make changes to the official IDL WAD, and somebody (whether they are an administrator or not) volunteers to implement those changes.&nbsp; In the past, Ralphis has usually both made the decisions and made the changes.&nbsp; This year, Ralphis is not an executive or an administrator of the IDL in any way, and so has no authority to make decisions about changes to the WAD.&nbsp; Nevertheless, he agreed to implement the changes this year.&nbsp; At first, that was true.&nbsp; He implemented the changes.&nbsp; But this year, we decided to have preliminary versions of the WAD to see what needed tweaking.&nbsp; After several weeks of playing the WAD, we reconvened and voted on any changes to make or not make.&nbsp; Then, we notified Ralphis of what we voted on.&nbsp; He again said he would implement the changes.&nbsp; This time he was lying.&nbsp; Instead, he made his own decisions about map characteristics, took out maps that are in the WAD, put in maps that aren&#039;t in the WAD, and so on.&nbsp; Basically he compiled his own WAD and then mislabeled it [i]idl2012.wad[/i].<br /><br />[b]So why are there 10,000 versions of idl2012.wad?[/b]<br /><br />There are two versions of idl2012.wad because a player who is not an administrator made an illegitimate compilation of maps he likes and called it idl2012.wad, and then the IDL administration released the actual idl2012.wad.&nbsp; Ralphis can&#039;t make decisions about idl2012.wad just like Capodecima and Majik can&#039;t--all three have the same administrative authority.<br /><br />[b]Why is it fucked up?[/b]<br /><br />I initially released it as idl2012y.wad to get checked out by everybody for errors, but was pressured into making it a final version by the incessant whining of the player base.&nbsp; My b.<br /><br />[b]Why did you break Map04 again?[/b]<br /><br />I didn&#039;t break Map04.&nbsp; Ralphis broke Map04.&nbsp; He fucked it up when he made the original versions of idl2012.wad.&nbsp; I just didn&#039;t fix it when I made the latest version.&nbsp; I didn&#039;t fix it because I didn&#039;t know it needed to be fixed, first of all because I thought Ralphis had already fixed his fuck-up in an earlier version, and second of all because he never notified me or anyone that talked to me of the changes that he made to the WAD, whether legitimate or otherwise.<br /><br />[b]Why is this taking two months?[/b]<br /><br />It is taking two months because we thought that Ralphis was not lying when he said he would help us out.&nbsp; If I had known that he was lying at the time, I would have made the rest of the changes myself and had this done long before the beginning of the semester and the regular season.<br /><br />I&#039;m sure Ralphis is very sorry for the confusion and difficulty that his recent lying, paranoia, and attempts at dismantling the administration have caused.&nbsp; You&#039;ll really have to ask him about that.<br /><br />I am just making the changes to the WAD that I am supposed to make because the people who run the IDL told me to make them, and I am doing it on short notice and without any help whatsoever.&nbsp; If anyone would like to help out, that would be great.&nbsp; If not, that is actually OK too.<br /><br />I want everybody to know my level of emotional commitment to the league.&nbsp; So I&#039;ll leave you with a song that expresses how I feel about the approval of the players in this time of uncertainty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nZ6SULBtdQ&amp;t=0m23s<br /><br />As you sing along, here is yet another version of the official idl2012 wad with all of the corrections that everybody helpfully pointed out.&nbsp; If any of you has any further suggestions for improvement, shoot me a pm, and I will be happy to make them.<br /><br />http://speedy.sh/hun5m/idl2012final.wad', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6203, 606, 17, 1328998653, 214, 6203, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.30.231', 1, 0, '', '[quote]3.&nbsp; I&#039;ll tell you what&#039;s lame, players not willing to take 40 seconds to upload a demo.[/quote]<br />Actually it takes me several minutes to upload a couple of megabytes. I wish it were only 40 seconds&nbsp; ;)<br /><br />[quote]I literally do not understand how people are even having demo infractions in the first place. You have IDE record it for you automatically with one click to turn on recording, and after the game you upload it to the IDL site with like two or three clicks and you&#039;re done. It&#039;s amazing that this is an issue at all.[/quote]<br />I have never used IDE and I know for a fact that other players still us ZD to record. Some use manual record and sometimes they forget to well, manually record. Others have an auto command line recording setup and it places their demos in some random ass directory because they don&#039;t know what they are doing. Finally some use 1.09 which is a stupid piece of shit version of zd. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5034, 504, 17, 1318627940, 0, 5034, 'Re: Who plans on returning for Winter 2012', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.14.174', 1, 0, '', 'I feel like I shouldn&#039;t play next season.&nbsp; I&#039;ll likely be leaving in March 2012 for you know where.&nbsp; If I am on a team and we go playoffs they are probably screwed unless I&#039;m the worst player on the team and benched all season (in that case why sign up anyways?).&nbsp; I missed the first season due to not knowing about the IDL.&nbsp; Then I voluntarily sat out season 8 I think, then 9 and 10 I&#039;ve been out of the country.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5035, 514, 17, 1318628088, 0, 5035, 'Re: &quot;Better&quot; Captains', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.14.174', 1, 0, '', 'I agree we shouldn&#039;t automatically let people stay on as captains.&nbsp; If Chain wanted to captain again but every captain from last season wanted to return, we should boot one of them based on the stats Ladna suggested so Chain could captain again.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5037, 513, 20, 1318628427, 0, 5037, 'Re: Jenova +  Bloviating = Jenoviating', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.14.174', 1, 0, '', 'In Quake/other games I&#039;ve seen many times where the communities split based on silly stuff like this.&nbsp; It is often in the best interests of everyone to correct these perceived injustices even if they aren&#039;t a big deal.&nbsp; We probably should not be banning people at all, it doesn&#039;t do shit except piss people off.&nbsp; I&#039;ve seen almost everyone with rcon or ops in #idl do personal bans for literally no reason other than they wanted to.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5038, 505, 20, 1318628728, 0, 5038, 'Re: WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO GET YOU TO SIGN UP?', 'Fastidious', '', '76.224.14.174', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=dew link=topic=505.msg4870#msg4870 date=1317765334]<br />however i need to call bullshit on the &quot;worst ever&quot; bit. go check stats of all seasons and mark [b]any[/b] game with less than 3v3 players as forfeited, you might find some seasons even worse.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />See stats Ralphis posted.&nbsp; I actually did forfeit stats for all seasons a few weeks ago and it was by far the most forfeit heavy season.&nbsp; In the past 2v2 and 3v2 weren&#039;t forfeits so you can&#039;t magically transform them into such.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6970, 136, 1, 1339366122, 34, 6970, 'Re: It''s coming', 'GhostlyDeath', 'ghostlydeath@gmail.com', '75.109.9.76', 1, 0, '', 'Great, a newfangled script kiddy that found UTF-8.<br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(7706, 740, 17, 1349303873, 10, 7706, 'Re: Odamex Discussion', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Tai link=topic=740.msg7705#msg7705 date=1349303630]I have no comment on being shot dead after going around a corner and clearly not being seen. Please fix. Thanks.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />If you would&#039;ve read the rest of this thread you would&#039;ve seen that what you are experiencing makes total sense and is a product of lag compensation (you REALLY died BEFORE you went around the corner, you just didn&#039;t know it yet).', 'xx', 1);
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	(7843, 748, 24, 1353278046, 2313, 7843, 'Re: Results and Demos', 'nub_hat', 'mikaelhhome@yahoo.dk', '93.167.8.131', 1, 0, '', 'The Best (0) vs (20) Bitch Please<br /><br />Map01: The Best (0) - (5) Bitch Please<br />Map02: The Best (0) - (5) Bitch Please<br />Map03: The Best (0) - (5) Bitch Please<br />Map04: The Best (0) - (5) Bitch Please<br /><br />Demos: http://www.mediafire.com/?a2b7lr541a079g7', 'xx', 1);
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	(7950, 771, 18, 1355780102, 8, 7950, 'IDL Winter 2013 Draft', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'As we inch closer to the beginning of the Winter 2013 season, there is much to do and the ball is already rolling. [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=766.0]Winter 2013 Captains have been revealed[/url], and so has their [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=768.0]draft picking order[/url]. Let&#039;s take the time now to thank all of our captains for dedicating the next few months to the success of the league!<br /><br />We also have a set date and time for this season&#039;s draft: <br /><br />[center][b][size=5]Sunday, December 23rd, 2012[/size][/b]<br />[size=4](IDL Pre-Show Panel) <br />Hosted by HumanBones with guests Antlint, Dew, MassVC, Tai, and Ru5tK1ng. <br />8:00PM EST<br />(IDL Winter 2013 Draft Selections)<br />9:00PM EST[/size][/center]<br /><br />Hope to see you all on Sunday, and stay tuned for further announcements!', 'xx', 1);
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	(5067, 514, 17, 1318858951, 130, 5067, 'Re: &quot;Better&quot; Captains', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', 'This is probably the most important thing we can do as an administration to make IDL better. The changes that were made to the draft and the changes that could be made to team names and the changes that are being made to the IDL map are all less important (though still important) than the way in which we pick captains.<br /><br />It is my belief that there needs to be a similar level of skill for the set of captains we choose. The arguments against this measure are that skill is opinion based and thus an inaccurate measure and that skill isn&#039;t the only necessity one need posses to captain an IDL team.<br /><br />Both of those objections are valid. I don&#039;t really want to argue them anymore. I will say that I don&#039;t think we need to rank players in order to achieve more parity in captain skill, a general tier system would be sufficient. The board already selects captains to our liking by some unpublished or unfortunate metric so I don&#039;t see why we couldn&#039;t just amend that to picking the most qualified captains. The system of just accepting the captains that sign up is stupid. Bad captains will signup along side great ones and the league suffers. <br /><br />Now I admit we probably won&#039;t have 12 Ralphi or 12 Humanbones but we can foster a league where the captains that serve alongside them are viable competition. The draft can compensate for a certain variance in skill without becoming lopsidedly unfair toward great players. I would say that variance lies somewhere between two adjacent tiers. Something like:<br /><br />Elite/Great<br />Great/Good<br />Good/New<br /><br />This is to say that all of the captains should fall into the same tier or at most one step in the corresponding direction.<br /><br />No draft can fairly compensate for the chasm of skill between Lockwolf and Ralphis with our current player pool nor should it be expected to. To make those teams even Ralph would have to be in a position where he had to draft as a 3rd a Lockwolf level player and our league is slightly deeper than that. It would also necessitate that Lockwolf get a Ralphis caliber player, which are few and far between. The only draft that compensates for skill gaps of that measure is a straight draft and that system promotes (good) captain exodus and unfairly oppresses skilled players and captains. We can avoid both of these things by simply addressing the skill levels of our captains on a season to season basis.<br /><br />The method by which we could do this is a semi-annual captain review. At the end of each season all the captains are, by default, dismissed from their teams. When signups start the IDL board will begin the process of filling the 12 vacant captaincies. This allows for the administration to gather the best possible captain class available on a season to season basis. Many if not most captains will be invited back. The community is small enough that we will probably have very similar captains from season to season. However when new people step up during a season as players they can make a case for receiving a captaincy in the following season, regardless if a sitting captain wants to leave or not. If nothing else this will drive captains who want to work harder, get better and bring their best effort to the league each season rather than being given a season of hopeless failure as the default. <br /><br />I want to say that I think using examples of sitting captains is in poor taste, and I know I&#039;m guilty of that too. I even think that using prior captains as an example can be taken, as it was, out of line. IDL isn&#039;t to make people feel bad, it&#039;s to foster high level CTF play. In particular I think the use of Strangle to represent some &quot;swing case&quot; in the captain voting is silly. The guy had a really awesome first season as captain and had a weird draft the following season. It&#039;s not like he&#039;s done any better or worse than Tai does on perennial basis. Let&#039;s give the kid some slack and if he happens to not be a captain next season recognize him for his contributions. Woo IDL.<br /><br />There is some debate among the board members and commissioner as to whether evenness in teams is something we should strive for [see endless posts about parity]. The idea behind that argument is that the more even teams become the less exciting IDL is, the less upsets we see and the less players strive to better themselves. My personal opinion is that those are inaccurate characterizations of our player base and generally false premises. Even if I were to concede the points none of those things are worth the spirit-breaking seasons you can have on a hopeless team with an under-skilled captain. Furthermore I feel like the under-skilled captains we&#039;ve had would be better served as players, contributing instead of starting from behind. I seriously see nothing but upside.<br /><br />To summarize, I think to even teams up we have to fix the disparity in captains skill league wide and believe that we can do that this season without disrupting the order of IDL. I believe that more even teams makes our league better and I believe that picking the best captains is the best things we can do to make our league more attractive to newer players. Let&#039;s just make it better and not go 40 rounds about why having higher skilled players captains is a positive thing for or how we can determine that. It&#039;s stupid simple and we should do it.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5068, 514, 17, 1318864121, 147, 5068, 'Re: &quot;Better&quot; Captains', 'LordBritish', 'a_west_2007@hotmail.com', '141.110.189.29', 1, 0, '', 'let&#039;s make all the new foreigners captain and rename masterbowl to botchbowl', 'xx', 1);
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	(5069, 515, 17, 1318875504, 30, 5069, 'Re: New team names?', 'Beast', 'kjolly@uwm.edu', '129.89.125.201', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=515.msg5060#msg5060 date=1318800053]<br />The following post comes from someone who tried to name their team the &quot;Pussy Fuckers&quot; in season 3.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />?', 'xx', 1);
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	(5040, 505, 20, 1318631945, 75, 5040, 'Re: WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO GET YOU TO SIGN UP?', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=505.msg5038#msg5038 date=1318628728]<br />[quote author=dew link=topic=505.msg4870#msg4870 date=1317765334]<br />however i need to call bullshit on the &quot;worst ever&quot; bit. go check stats of all seasons and mark [b]any[/b] game with less than 3v3 players as forfeited, you might find some seasons even worse.<br />[/quote]<br />See stats Ralphis posted.&nbsp; I actually did forfeit stats for all seasons a few weeks ago and it was by far the most forfeit heavy season.&nbsp; In the past 2v2 and 3v2 weren&#039;t forfeits so you can&#039;t magically transform them into such.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />are you even listening to what i am saying, or are you just poor at text comprehension? i am saying you can&#039;t compare stats from seasons where 3v2&#039;s were allowed with the all-forfeit seasons. it compromises your data, because there&#039;s no common base to them. you can&#039;t just blindly crunch numbers, even ms excel is smarter than that nowadays.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5041, 514, 17, 1318632172, 75, 5041, 'Re: &quot;Better&quot; Captains', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=514.msg5035#msg5035 date=1318628088]<br />I agree we shouldn&#039;t automatically let people stay on as captains.&nbsp; If Chain wanted to captain again but every captain from last season wanted to return, we should boot one of them based on the stats Ladna suggested so Chain could captain again.<br />[/quote]<br />the scorched captain would probably never return to caping for us again and with chain most likely leaving after one season of capping, we&#039;d be down two caps.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5042, 517, 17, 1318632574, 75, 5042, 'Re: The Draft', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'i gotta second fast on this one, especially the SPE stuff. nero did breach the agreement by trading kist away - but tbh, he was kinda forced into it by kist&#039;s lacklustre performance. often times i was forced to defend, because kist as our sharpest shooter just wasn&#039;t able to navigate in his own base. uhm.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5043, 514, 17, 1318640535, 89, 5043, 'Re: &quot;Better&quot; Captains', 'Solar_Flare', 'cdstrangle@gmail.com', '65.71.126.174', 1, 0, '', 'What is my case?', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5044, 520, 17, 1318640647, 89, 5044, 'Re: Priv timelimit', 'Solar_Flare', 'cdstrangle@gmail.com', '65.71.126.174', 1, 0, '', '15. If you can&#039;t take 15 minutes of a map, then you&#039;re not ready to handle 2 10 minute games back to back.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5045, 514, 17, 1318706806, 7, 5045, 'Re: &quot;Better&quot; Captains', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=dew link=topic=514.msg5041#msg5041 date=1318632172]<br />the scorched captain would probably never return to caping for us again and with chain most likely leaving after one season of capping, we&#039;d be down two caps.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Fast is just using Chain as an example, so disregard any Chain-specific things (spotty connection, for instance).<br /><br />And I think the only reason captains would feel &quot;scorched&quot; is because IDL gives them the impression that they have a right to carry on a captains.&nbsp; This is (like keeping the same team name every season)<br /><br />[color=red][size=7]ONLY A RELIC OF THE FRANCHISING ERA[/size][/color].<br /><br />and really has no purpose, although its effect is to force IDL to retain below-average captains for no good reason.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5046, 517, 17, 1318708774, 7, 5046, 'Re: The Draft', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', 'OK if SPE is a bad example, then pick any team you like with a top player(s) and a poor captain:<br /><br />&nbsp; - Lords of Nigeria<br />&nbsp; - Cereal Killers<br />&nbsp; - Hot Wax Bandits<br />&nbsp; - Down but Not Out<br />&nbsp; - Laughing Gas<br /><br />If IDL had its way, Lockwolf, MionicDonut, Tenchu, Rexnor, and GhostlyDeath would be free to terrorize 3 fresh new players each season, as long as they somehow limp into playoffs every other season.<br /><br />This is really what you guys (IDL admins) are defending.&nbsp; That MionicDonut has as much a right to captain as Nostar, HumanBones, Jenova, Ralphis, etc. etc.&nbsp; This is just straight up insanity, and if you can&#039;t see it, you really need to jump in front of a bus or something.&nbsp; I don&#039;t even know.<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />I like the Ladna/Ralphis comparison :-*&nbsp; (it was mine to begin with) so let&#039;s stick with that.&nbsp; Also Fast I&#039;m not directly addressing you, it&#039;s more like the generic &quot;you&quot;.<br /><br />I don&#039;t believe I have the same shot as Ralphis at a Masterbowl.&nbsp; I personally believe any system in which I do is gay, because all that means is I beat Ralphis with a handicap.&nbsp; Who would ever be happy about a win like that?<br /><br />When I play in IDL, I play to win.&nbsp; Having fun is secondary, being nice is secondary, building IDL is secondary, etc. (&lt;MassVC&gt; How can you have 3 secondary things?&nbsp; &lt;Ladna&gt; Goddammit).&nbsp; And when I win, I want it to be because I and my team were better than the other team.&nbsp; Not because we picked first, not because of some queer power play or other penalty, not because one of their players ditched.&nbsp; I want to beat teams at their best, and to show this, I do my best to ensure that I&#039;m playing at my best, that I&#039;m on the edge of my game, that I&#039;ve practiced the map dozens of times, that I know how my teammates and the other team are going to play, that I have every competitive, fair advantage that I can get.<br /><br />And when I&#039;m up against a strong team, I want to beat that team more than anything.&nbsp; When I captained FLS, we had [b]GRUELING[/b] ODA02 practices before Week 1 when our team played against Ralphis/Fastidious/Nostar.&nbsp; I&#039;m proud of my teammates that they put up with it, and I&#039;m proud of the way we played that game, even though we lost.&nbsp; Were we disadvantaged because I was on our team?&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; Did that make me work even harder?&nbsp; Absolutely.<br /><br />If someone don&#039;t have that will to compete and win, then they&#039;re not fit to be a captain.&nbsp; Yeah IDL might take them anyway because getting captains is hard.&nbsp; But they&#039;re not on the same level as the others.<br /><br />So don&#039;t condescend to me and tell me that in order to beat better captains I need a handicap.&nbsp; If you think I&#039;m not good enough to be a captain then I accept that, but don&#039;t say I can play IDL and here are some training wheels.&nbsp; Fuck that.<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />OK, bravado aside, there is nothing the draft can do to ensure I get a player of Ralphis&#039; skill, and that Ralphis gets a player of my skill, and then we pick 3rds and 4ths of equal skill.&nbsp; Aside from the fact that we have no sure way of ranking players, that system would no longer be a &quot;draft&quot;.<br /><br />To be clear, I&#039;m not at all against parity.&nbsp; I think a league where fuckin [dewww, Dannyboy, Doomguy666, Nautilus] has to play against [ThatsJustPrime, Godsdoomer, ItalianStallion, Mantis-X] should do something to fix that.&nbsp; I submit that what IDL should do is pick captains of similar skill.&nbsp; I&#039;d prefer elite skill, but I&#039;ll take what I can get.&nbsp; This thread has largely been about what the draft can do to resolve that disparty, and I&#039;m arguing that it [b]can&#039;t do anything at all[/b], moreso than it already does, because there are bigger issues and causes than just draft position.<br /><br />[b]TL;DR[/b]: Quit fucking around with the draft, dismiss all captains at the end of every season, and pick the best captains at the beginning of each season.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6426, 624, 20, 1331168829, 64, 6426, 'Re: Regular Season Awards Discussion', 'BloodStrike', 'casianoortega@live.com', '107.2.106.65', 1, 0, '', 'Dew... Stop talking about me.<br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(5048, 517, 17, 1318750772, 163, 5048, 'Re: The Draft', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.18.43.209', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;ll say this in regards to Ladna&#039;s Ralph/Him comparison:<br /><br />The one thing the draft can do is help Ladna build a good team. This is because Ladna is a capable player and simply needs to find his great player through the draft. Ralph, on the other hand, will be the great player on his team and simply needs to find two stellar players. It balances out if Ladna gets that great player he&#039;s looking for. But there&#039;s no guarantee either way you slice it. So fixing the draft won&#039;t change that. Talent will.<br /><br />I&#039;ll put it like this: if Legion was twice as good as he is now (which wouldn&#039;t make him great, it would make him stellar, someone of Ladna&#039;s caliber), FLS would have probably beaten SPE. That is the benefit of the first pick, the downside is well-documented, however. That&#039;s why, as I said, the only way Ladna will beat Ralphis is if we have more talent so Ladna can find that capable 3rd. If he does, then there&#039;s absolutely no question that it would be 50/50. That&#039;s why I continue to stress that we should find ways to bring in more talent, not alter the draft. <br /><br />Now, some would read this and say based on what I&#039;ve argued, I&#039;m actually supporting the idea of a new draft system - no, that&#039;s not it at all. I&#039;m saying that some Captains like Ralphis will be extraordinarily great, others will be slightly above average. And quite frankly, altering the draft to change this won&#039;t make it even; it will turn it into a disadvantage to Ralphis (assuming we went from snake draft to straight draft and Ladna gets 1-4 and Ralph gets 8-12). I don&#039;t believe that is fair to Ralphis or the IDL. Because now you&#039;re discouraging anybody who doesn&#039;t land 1-4 to step up and be a captain. And that&#039;s my argument against the straight draft. <br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />The question becomes how do we promote the IDL and and find ways to bring in new blood. The continuous word I&#039;ve seen throughout all of these threads is &quot;growth.&quot; We want the IDL to grow, so we have to find new players. That&#039;s the key. <br /><br />The downside you&#039;ll get with new players is inexperience, inability and the mystery to as whether they&#039;ll pan out or not. We can contribute to this by, once we&#039;ve managed to get some new guys in, giving them more opportunities to play. Will it require some of us to step up in priv and let them play? Absolutely. The games won&#039;t always be fun but it&#039;s a great thing for the IDL if these new guys are getting tons of action. You don&#039;t get good through pub, you get good through priv. Pub might teach you a few basics but priv will teach you the basics and deeper fundamentals, all-the-while enhancing what these new guys might already know.<br /><br />If you want to contribute to the IDL&#039;s growth, try doing more of that. It&#039;s productive and gives people a sense that they&#039;re welcome to join our community. They will have to put the work in and not all of them will be great but it&#039;s far better than just playing the same old people over and over again and watching the league eventually die. <br /><br />We have plenty of time to get these guys in here and giving them some opportunities to play and learn before the draft. If we get a few who to out to be awesome, that&#039;s a win. I&#039;ve gone through ZDaemon (took a ban for it, too - don&#039;t tell me I don&#039;t love the IDL!) to get these guys. I still like Skulltag might have a few guys worthwhile. The Quake community is definitely worth giving a shot, too. But I can&#039;t do it alone; I need help. I&#039;m encouraging everyone to step up and advertise the shit out of IDL to get guys in here as soon as possible. Once we do that, we&#039;ll work with them and see where it goes. <br /><br />Also, this was totally a ramble post. It&#039;s 4am and I&#039;ve been meaning to post something along the lines of this for the last few days. I just finally got to it and said fuck it, if I don&#039;t do it now, I&#039;ll probably never do it! So don&#039;t come down on me too hard, okay? :P ', 'xx', 1);
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	(6756, 658, 22, 1336513489, 2174, 6756, 'Re: IDL Summer 2012 Signups', 'Decay`', 'systemdecay@hotmail.ca', '99.254.95.70', 1, 0, '', 'Name: Decay<br />Country: Canada<br />Email contact: systemdecay@hotmail.ca<br />IM contact: IRC quakenet #odamex, #altdeath, #mxu<br />Regular Availability: COMPLETELY OPEN (unemployed as fuck)', 'xx', 1);
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	(6204, 606, 17, 1329002658, 163, 6204, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.132.224', 1, 0, '', 'I record manually and have never missed a recording, even dating back to some of the earlier seasons where I was selected in mid-season drafts from DNO and SOM. I still have those floating around somewhere. ;)<br /><br />Seriously, like Ladna said, it&#039;s not that hard. Once you record it, it&#039;s recorded. There are no other steps afterward other than uploading it, which seriously shouldn&#039;t be hard. Anybody forgetting to demo or not knowing where their demos are being sent to are clearly retarded. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(5047, 517, 17, 1318715999, 0, 5047, 'Re: The Draft', 'Fastidious', '', '76.222.57.247', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5046#msg5046 date=1318708774]<br />top player(s) and a poor captain:<br /><br />GhostlyDeath would be free to terrorize 3 fresh new players each season, as long as they somehow limp into playoffs every other season.[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;ll just say when I was on Ghostly&#039;s team in season 2 he had the wisdom to basically let me take over as captain (and I was a dick and pretty much forced him to do that).&nbsp; Penultimate went 4-0-1 (1 tie) I think after I was on that team.&nbsp; So I personally would not lump him in with those others but I see your general point.&nbsp; There are some players not fit to captain.<br /><br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5046#msg5046 date=1318708774]I don&#039;t believe I have the same shot as Ralphis at a Masterbowl.&nbsp; I personally believe any system in which I do is gay, because all that means is I beat Ralphis with a handicap.&nbsp; Who would ever be happy about a win like that?[/quote]<br /><br />I see what you are saying, but the IDL is a team event.&nbsp; I feel like you are saying because you are not a good a captain as others you should always have a worse team.&nbsp; I don&#039;t believe that should be the case.&nbsp; I think since you are a bit weaker you should have a slight edge when it comes to the draft which would lead to more equal teams (but probably still worse than Ralphis).<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5046#msg5046 date=1318708774]When I play in IDL, I play to win.&nbsp; Having fun is secondary, being nice is secondary, building IDL is secondary, etc[/quote]<br /><br />Just an aside but I play for fun primarily, but competition makes it fun.&nbsp; Without that it&#039;s not fun.<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5046#msg5046 date=1318708774]When I captained FLS, we had [b]GRUELING[/b] ODA02 practices before Week 1 when our team played against Ralphis/Fastidious/Nostar.&nbsp; I&#039;m proud of my teammates that they put up with it, and I&#039;m proud of the way we played that game, even though we lost.&nbsp; Were we disadvantaged because I was on our team?&nbsp; Absolutely.&nbsp; Did that make me work even harder?&nbsp; Absolutely.[/quote]<br /><br />But let&#039;s be honest the fact Ralphis/Fastidious/Nostar can even end up on a team is pretty much bullshit and a failing of the IDL, isn&#039;t it?&nbsp; That&#039;s a hugely stacked team that is almost automatically going to contend for a MasterBowl.&nbsp; In this case any captain not being a top player is fucked versus such a team.&nbsp; Isn&#039;t that a little fucked up and wrong?<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5046#msg5046 date=1318708774]If someone don&#039;t have that will to compete and win, then they&#039;re not fit to be a captain.[/quote]<br /><br />Would anyone work less hard if they have more parity between teams?&nbsp; I don&#039;t think so.<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5046#msg5046 date=1318708774]So don&#039;t condescend to me and tell me that in order to beat better captains I need a handicap.&nbsp; If you think I&#039;m not good enough to be a captain then I accept that, but don&#039;t say I can play IDL and here are some training wheels.&nbsp; Fuck that.[/quote]<br /><br />I&#039;m just saying why not make it more competitive?&nbsp; I forget the specifics, so maybe you can tell me, but didn&#039;t you stop captaining because you lost an edge in picks (Whiteboy or something?) due to removal of franchising?&nbsp; If true it sounds like you want that edge back to achieve more parity in the league and without that extra parity you aren&#039;t interested in captaining.&nbsp; Would that be correct?<br /><br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5046#msg5046 date=1318708774][b]TL;DR[/b]: Quit fucking around with the draft, dismiss all captains at the end of every season, and pick the best captains at the beginning of each season.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Amen, sounds good to me.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6775, 658, 22, 1336703542, 2276, 6775, 'Re: IDL Summer 2012 Signups', 'JCDenton', 'rkidlaspina@gmail.com', '68.224.154.88', 1, 0, '', 'Name: JCDenton<br />Country/State: USA, NV<br />Email Contact: rkidlaspina@gmail.com<br />IM Contact: #IDL on QuakeNet<br />Regular Availability: Most evenings &amp; weekends', 'xx', 1);
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	(7358, 716, 17, 1345699178, 10, 7358, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '98.225.144.111', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Watermelon link=topic=716.msg7356#msg7356 date=1345697186]@Ralphis:<br />Please make your music an additional wad for download separately from the pack for free brownie points.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Everyone&#039;s displeasure only encourages larger file sizes', 'xx', 1);
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	(7844, 748, 24, 1353282539, 2313, 7844, 'Re: Results and Demos', 'nub_hat', 'mikaelhhome@yahoo.dk', '93.167.8.131', 1, 0, '', 'The Best (1) vs (20) A Name That Implies WINning<br /><br />Map01: The Best (1) - (5) A Name That Implies WINning<br />Map02: The Best (0) - (5) A Name That Implies WINning<br />Map03: The Best (0) - (5) A Name That Implies WINning<br />Map04: The Best (0) - (5) A Name That Implies WINning<br /><br />Demos: http://www.mediafire.com/?lt4pqyt68dbadbl', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(1790, 172, 26, 1273722616, 30, 1790, 'Re: Team Color Assignments', 'Beast', 'kjolly@uwm.edu', '129.89.125.185', 1, 0, '', 'Whats funny is I hate skulltag because the screen doesn&#039;t turn red when you get hit, to me that is a fundamental part of the doom experience and gameplay.&nbsp; Especially on a map like map04, sometimes you want to injure the other team and boogie out instead of killing them ...its effective trust me. <br /><br />As far as not seeing a person because they are red and your screen is red....never got that deep I usually prefer to play on blue but for those something epic type of maps if you play them enough it doesn&#039;t matter which side your on. Practice bitches', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(8098, 788, 25, 1357612141, 7, 8100, 'The Next Faggot That Reports A Post Is Banned', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '199.180.105.115', 1, 1357700401, 'Ladna', 'The only people who can report posts are rust and whiteboy, because they&#039;re funny when they do it.<br /><br />EDIT: OK also Shakal', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5070, 515, 17, 1318887778, 130, 5070, 'Re: New team names?', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 1318888206, 'nostar', '[quote author=LordBritish link=topic=515.msg5039#msg5039]<br />Will you marry me?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />A thousand times yes. I think Rus wants in on our love though. Could get messy.<br /><br />[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=515.msg5060#msg5060 date=1318800053]<br />The following post comes from someone who tried to name their team the &quot;Pussy Fuckers&quot; in season 3.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Ralphis don&#039;t hate the player, hate Juan Castillo.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5049, 517, 17, 1318781648, 4, 5049, 'Re: The Draft', 'Tenchu', 'ddmrulz@gmail.com', '98.250.101.180', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5046#msg5046 date=1318708774]<br />If IDL had its way, Lockwolf, MionicDonut, Tenchu, Rexnor, and GhostlyDeath would be free to terrorize 3 fresh new players each season, as long as they somehow limp into playoffs every other season.[/quote]<br /><br />I don&#039;t think these judgements are exactly fair. I can&#039;t speak for the rest of those guys but let me remind you those events occurred [b]over three years ago[/b]. That&#039;s a pretty long time on the Internet. I&#039;ll admit, HWB was a complete disaster. I was plagued with scheduling problems and other personal shit that was going on that summer. But again, that was years ago and I&#039;m a different person than I was back then. I&#039;m absolutely confident that if I stepped up and managed a team this season, it would be worlds different from HWB. I&#039;m no league expert, but if you continue to hold these largely negative views on players (who have the potential to do a great deal of good for the league, mind you) over shit that happened in a different freakin&#039; decade, well then it would seem you&#039;re just hindering future growth.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5050, 515, 17, 1318781685, 30, 5050, 'Re: New team names?', 'Beast', 'kjolly@uwm.edu', '24.209.160.160', 1, 0, '', 'I&#039;d like to preface this with as Ralphis stated arguing about this is like arguing about don&#039;t ask don&#039;t tell, however since the player base cares, they should be given what they want. Especially since one, this is a niche market, two it has no real effect on the outcome of the game, and three it makes the league more unique. <br /><br />Personally my opinion is that captains/teams should be able to declare there own names. <br /><br />For instance, &#039;if my memory is correct&#039; Chaindude&nbsp; came up with BSK &#039;Beserker Packers&#039;. This name was creative in the fact that it has Doom and NFL origins and the final game in this league is the Masterbowl vs the Superbowl. In the NFL as Fast stated, coaches, management and team names don&#039;t change often but this isnt the NFL its doom. Plus in doom,&nbsp; its just not cool to keep the same fucking names. I hear cries about vulgar names etc...which my only response is its the internet get over it. I mean really at the end of the day there is so much vulgarity and racism amongst other things that not only is it a fulltime job to police but its just background noise at a certain point. I hear people make out of line comments all the time, on the internet, but these same people wouldn&#039;t dare say what they say on here in person. To me the IDL isn&#039;t some god damn poster child example for character, proper grammar , and politically correct naming schemes. Its where people come to compete with the best doomers in the world. Honestly I would let people choose there own names, if someone is retarded enough to pick names like nigger this, spic that, or gay fag etc... simply reject the name.&nbsp; Yeah I know its contradictory, and it impedes on your first amendment rights but adapt and be more thoughtful and subliminal if you want to perpetuate such things. Even though my team TMNT wasn&#039;t successful, the name remains and it even had a cool theme. <br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHtMp-40BQ4<br /><br />At the end of the day I think the names should follow the captains, if the captain wants to change the name let them. I honestly think chaindude chose the name not just because of the beserks in doom and the nfl packers, but I think at the time his lineup was just that some mofo beserker packers. <br /><br />just like clan names, let the shit be unique, this aint football, its doom<br /><br />[DX] one of the most dominant clans for 2 to 3 years, dominated with a similar attitude of that of the wrestling team by doing w/e they wanted and telling people to &#039;suck it&#039; <br /><br />[SIN] players had names according to probably not only their character but also related back to the clan name Hatred, Rage, Gluttony etc.... SIN will always be one of the coolest names a clan could have<br /><br />[R]enegades 1: a deserter from one faith, cause, or allegiance to another 2: an individual who rejects lawful or conventional behavior ......that about sums it up<br /><br />[NS] originally new schoolers, was from what I could tell a shitload of one on one talent playing on servers with dmflags and dmflags2 geared toward what I would call new school attributes, such as mouse look <br /><br />[OS] Vice versa to [NS]<br /><br />[TC] This is one of my favorites, Total Control. Yes we know Natural and Dalek hacked amongst others, but god damn until DX dominated them weren&#039;t they undefeated in 3 on 3 ctf? Basically Nat Dalek and anyone else with a [TC] tag. <br /><br />So I merely listed those out so I can prove my point, SPE Spread Eagles, which anywhere in the world means have some good sex with a womens legs spread wide open like an eagles wings. Yeah sign me up, I really like this team it says alot about my character and ability to dominate you in doom, I like it so much.......its a fucking bore let the captain choose the name. If anything Its probably best to just compromise and provide some guidelines for team naming to the captains.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5051, 520, 17, 1318782238, 30, 5051, 'Re: Priv timelimit', 'Beast', 'kjolly@uwm.edu', '24.209.160.160', 1, 0, '', 'Just as you can change the amount of players on a per map basis, the time should also be dictated by the map<br /><br />THAT IS ALL, I HAVE SPOKEN<br /><br />example zdctf map 19 = 15 minutes because of the multiple ways you must attack to crack the defense and the distance the flags are apart<br /><br />zdctf map01 = 10 minutes, no tricks here just weapon skills and movement, flags pretty close, even with two evenly matched teams 10 minutes or less is enough, the frags will be off the charts no matter which time you pick<br /><br />....just sayen', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5052, 517, 17, 1318783073, 30, 5052, 'Re: The Draft', 'Beast', 'kjolly@uwm.edu', '24.209.160.160', 1, 0, '', 'Requirement to be a captain: play at least 1 full idl season with x% attendance <br /> <br />1. people should put in bids to be captains, if enough bids from eligible players aren&#039;t received the board should appoint veteran players at their discretion<br /><br />2. order of the draft, if captains return then you adjust the order accorfing to last seasons win percentage(masterbowl champs are obviously last etc...) If a captain is not returning for w/e reason assign a newly bidded captain that team (note the captain, if desired must change the name after the team is finalized) then the name change must be propagated out to reflect ongoing states (pain in the ass but ladna and other smart programmers exist)<br /><br /><br />3. Allow a period for captains to trade players for draft picks (obviously all this shit im mentioning needs to occur in a logical order)<br /><br />....im up in the air about franchising, honestly im neutral but if your a good captain that is active, maybe you should after like 2 seasons be eligible to franchise with players<br /><br />Its a grey area and some people think this ruins competition, my only reply is adapt ', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5053, 504, 17, 1318783165, 30, 5053, 'Re: Who plans on returning for Winter 2012', 'Beast', 'kjolly@uwm.edu', '24.209.160.160', 1, 0, '', 'The Beast from the East which is also the best in the west will make a return to the IDL this winter<br /><br />I guarantee domination and nothing less', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5171, 525, 18, 1320171533, 2121, 5171, 'Re: New maps for IDL2012.wad', 'chow', 'donotreply@linuxmail.org', '99.119.77.122', 1, 0, '', 'Can&#039;t believe you dumb cunts axed ZD07 and kept fucking Generic Gray.<br /><br />Fuck you.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5905, 579, 20, 1326409982, 49, 5905, 'Re: Post Demos Here', 'Killingblair', 'blair.cahue@gmail.com', '71.185.75.35', 1, 0, '', '[url=http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15865805/kgbvspbh.zip]I&#039;m gay.[/url]', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6205, 606, 17, 1329013514, 19, 6205, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.124.253', 1, 0, '', 'It&#039;s not possible to use 1.09 to demo when all servers run 1.08.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6427, 622, 17, 1331169814, 75, 6427, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Hatred link=topic=622.msg6418#msg6418 date=1331157496]<br />Have [b]you[/b] lived under a rock the past [b]two years[/b]???[/quote]<br />i dunno what to say. i&#039;ve seen what the latest versions of all the ports can do while you were busy getting banned from zdaemon.<br /><br />[quote]Skulltag coop is way better. It can run almost any wad (something even ZDaemon 1.09 can&#039;t do)[/quote]<br />well, sure. there are complex zdoom wads only playable in skulltag, but they&#039;re mostly intended for the non-doom crowds you described earlier (w[i]h[/i]acky mods). when we go back to doom, i can point out wads that run on vanilla and zdaemon, but crash on skulltag and zdoom. ;(<br /><br />[quote]it supports more mapping programs (dehack etc)[/quote]<br />you say dehack[i]ed[/i], but you mean [i]decorate[/i]. not that it is anything we [i]want[/i] in online gaming, tbh. the game would never get stable.<br /><br />[quote]it introduced coop waves[/quote]<br />you mean, like, invasion? zd has invasion, although a bit hackish. never been a fan of that mode, so keept the win if you really want to.<br /><br />[quote]pk3s (something ZDaemon still can&#039;t run&nbsp; :D)[/quote]<br />you don&#039;t really know what pk3&#039;s are, right? they&#039;re just zipped wads. it&#039;s a nice feature, but to be honest, i find it completely superfluous to even use the pk3 format. thanks for nothing, zdoom.<br /><br />[quote]and just feels much better.[/quote]<br />totally. convincing.<br /><br />[quote]I was thrilled when ZDaemon added survival as a mode but it&#039;s still far behind what ST is able to do. [/quote]<br />you haven&#039;t even talked about it yet, i presume because you have no experience with it. can you even play 1.09? TNS has been here for 5 months and it has been pretty fucking cool, but you can customize 1.09 survival much more than the st survival.<br /><br />[quote]<br />Since you love Whiteboy so much and used his word as proof of ProCTF&#039;s awesomeness, why don&#039;t you ask him about ST coop, too. He, like many other avid coop/survival players in the IDL community, will tell you Skulltag coop is ten times better than ZDaemon coop.<br />[/quote]<br />again, i doubt whiteboy has ever played zdaemon survival, because you can&#039;t set up a priv server atm. you can&#039;t really use stupid arguments against me, cause i won&#039;t let you.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6757, 658, 22, 1336514783, 37, 6757, 'Re: IDL Summer 2012 Signups', 'Tony', 'red.doomer@gmail.com', '99.100.236.234', 1, 0, '', 'Name: Climhazzard<br />Country/State: USA<br />IM Contact: QuakeNet #idl<br />Regular Availability: Fri/Sat/Sun', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6972, 136, 1, 1339378722, 8, 6972, 'Re: It''s coming', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', '[img]http://humanbones.unidoom.org/pics/carlin.gif[/img]', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(7845, 748, 24, 1353287187, 75, 7845, 'Re: Results and Demos', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', 'A Name That Implies WINning (15) vs (5) Bitch Please<br /><br />Map01: WIN (0) - (1) BP<br />Map02: WIN (5) - (0) BP<br />Map03: WIN (5) - (2) BP<br />Map04: WIN (5) - (2) BP<br /><br />Demos: http://www.mediafire.com/?1pzcysp141lpv78<br /><br />also my demos for the WIN v. BEST match: http://www.mediafire.com/?n4omytnjnedd3ez', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8099, 788, 25, 1357682663, 214, 8099, 'Re: The Next Faggot That Reports A Post Is Banned', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.23.23', 1, 0, '', 'The IDL Darwin award goes to co-winners Telo and AlexMax. Good job guys.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6430, 622, 17, 1331178788, 214, 6430, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '65.68.74.215', 1, 0, '', 'Guys, what the FUCK does coop and survival have to do with moving to odamex?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5054, 514, 17, 1318783461, 30, 5054, 'Re: &quot;Better&quot; Captains', 'Beast', 'kjolly@uwm.edu', '24.209.160.160', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ladna link=topic=514.msg4936#msg4936 date=1318226884]<br />Yeah.&nbsp; IDL has some interesting problems because it&#039;s a draft league.&nbsp; Almost all other FPS events are team signups, so they just don&#039;t even attempt to tackle the issue of parity, it&#039;s 100% about letting the players decide, and then just seeing what happens.<br /><br />Along those lines, I was thinking about how signup leagues/tournaments work.&nbsp; If you&#039;re not very good, or you&#039;re not very likable, you probably won&#039;t be able to put together a strong team.&nbsp; If you keep losing, you probably won&#039;t go through the trouble of putting together a team, practicing, and paying the entry fee.&nbsp; Additionally, players will be very particular about which teams they join, because their success often rests heavily on the shoulders of their teammates.<br /><br />[hr]<br /><br />IDL doesn&#039;t really work this way.&nbsp; You can captain in IDL and have a long-lived history of sucking hard, and as long as you limp into playoffs every other season you&#039;re OK, and IDL has to suffer your tyranny for another 9+ weeks.<br /><br />In order to fix this, I would propose 2 things:<br /><br />&nbsp; - IDL dismisses all captains every season (just like seasons 1-4)<br />&nbsp; - IDL chooses the best captains out of all captain volunteers based (primarily but not solely) on:<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; - Total captaining record<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; - Total player record (if the player&#039;s never captained before)<br /><br />These grant IDL more capability to raise the captain quality, and therefore provide greater incentive to captains to perform better, including:<br /><br />&nbsp; - Persuading their players to show up<br />&nbsp; - Showing up themselves<br />&nbsp; - Coaching their players<br /><br />Captains are really the backbone of the IDL.&nbsp; Great captains inspire us to become the best players we possibly can be, and to destroy our opponents permanently and violently.&nbsp; Bad captains just make us want to quit.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Only thing I would change would be<br /><br /> <br />- IDL chooses the best captains out of all captain volunteers based (primarily but not solely) on:<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; - Total captaining record<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; - Total player record (if the player&#039;s never captained before)<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; - Persuading their players to show up<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; - Showing up themselves<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; - Coaching their players<br /><br />choose captains on their ability to communicate, show up, and no suck so much', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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	(5055, 519, 17, 1318783591, 30, 5055, 'Re: Who is an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?', 'Beast', 'kjolly@uwm.edu', '24.209.160.160', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Doomguy666 link=topic=519.msg4988#msg4988 date=1318506965]<br />I have played this Doom game a long time and so have very many others.<br /><br />What decides the criteria for an &quot;Elite&quot; IDL player?<br /><br />There is without a doubt certain traits that follow anyone who take this game seriously. There are many discussions/arguments but I am curious as to what fellow players in this league at this time consider what would make someone fall under such a category. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />consistency to dominate, I can&#039;t hold that title because I haveen&#039;t been consistent but I&#039;ll name two players that are:<br /><br />Ralphis and Jenova can both be considered elite amongst others&nbsp; ', 'xx', 1);
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	(6758, 658, 22, 1336515443, 216, 6758, 'Re: IDL Summer 2012 Signups', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '174.92.59.41', 1, 0, '', 'Name: ThatsJustPrime<br />Country/State: Canada<br />IM Contact: QuakeNet #idl<br />Regular Availability: Lots', 'xx', 1);
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	(6206, 606, 17, 1329019303, 214, 6206, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.30.231', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Hatred link=topic=606.msg6204#msg6204 date=1329002658]<br />I record manually and have never missed a recording, even dating back to some of the earlier seasons where I was selected in mid-season drafts from DNO and SOM. I still have those floating around somewhere. ;)[/quote]<br />Well that&#039;s dandy for you, but this topic isn&#039;t about you. Now go away<br /><br />[quote=Xenaero]It&#039;s not possible to use 1.09 to demo when all servers run 1.08.[/quote]<br />I&#039;m sorry, I meant 1.09 client. Now you go away also', 'xx', 1);
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	(7846, 758, 25, 1353373411, 216, 7846, 'Re: IDL Winter 2013 Signups', 'ThatsJustPrime', 'shma_man@hotmail.com', '70.30.56.131', 1, 0, '', 'primey<br />canadia <br />irc<br />a lot (evenings after 6 mostly)<br /><br />don&#039;t draft me early or you&#039;ll be sorry', 'xx', 1);
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	(5059, 380, 1, 1318799893, 10, 5059, 'Re: Odamex - try it, you''ll like it!', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '64.141.192.13', 1, 0, '', 'I am waiting for the next Odamex version to launch and I will launch the new duel system shortly after', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5060, 515, 17, 1318800053, 10, 5060, 'Re: New team names?', 'Ralphis', 'ralphis@gmail.com', '64.141.192.13', 1, 0, '', 'The following post comes from someone who tried to name their team the &quot;Pussy Fuckers&quot; in season 3.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5906, 581, 17, 1326411850, 214, 5906, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'RustInPeace', 'sindeception@yahoo.com', '70.241.25.90', 1, 1326412725, 'RustInPeace', 'A few more points:<br /><br />[quote author=MassVC link=topic=581.msg5903#msg5903 date=1326401254]<br />Some points:<br /><br />[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]However it contained changes that the board did not vote on.[/quote]<br /><br />Actually the board did vote on them, twice.&nbsp; Once before constructing the initial version of the wad, and again after testing it for several weeks.&nbsp; These were the results of the initial votes:<br /><br />Map28 Spawns (with Humanbones acting as our 5th board member in Mikehail&#039;s temporary absence): 3 for 5 spawns (Mass, Xen, Dew), and 2 for 2 spawns (Nostar, Humanbones)<br /><br />Map32 Textures: 1 for new textures (Dew), and 4 for old textures (Mass, Xen, Nostar, Mikehail)<br /><br />The second set of votes were insufficient to overturn these.[/quote]My mistake. I meant to write did not vote in favor of. Midnight...<br /><br /><br />[quote=MassVC][quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]a poll was even made that reflects that most players hate the mspaint textures[/quote]<br /><br />Actually, 15 out of 72 players (3 of whom dropped out) is not even close to being most of the players, not to mention the opinions (whether included in the 15 or not) of players like Mikehail and Jenova who did not sign up this season (and whose opinions count also).&nbsp; The poll was taken from a sample of people who were upset about the map changes.&nbsp; The ones that didn&#039;t care, like me, didn&#039;t vote, and it looks like there were at least 54 of them.<br /><br />If you pull 3 marbles out of a 100-marble bag, and 2 of them are black, that doesn&#039;t &quot;indicate&quot; that most of the marbles are black.[/quote]Ok fair enough but with the poll result and with the addition of comments in games and irc, it should be blatantly clear that players loathe the eye blinding textures. Don&#039;t anyone give me this &#039;turn down your brightness&#039; bullshit. Yeah the problem is with the players not the map. please. Sure you guys may have voted on it, but did you ever consider the players instead of yourselves for an instance? Well we&#039;ll see what happens week 9 (if the league doesn&#039;t crash and burn). Some players are in the dark about things going on. Maybe what happened week2 will have then. Players will leave the dark and not be pleased when they see the map.<br /><br /><br />[quote=MassVC][quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]Has mod music that bloats the wad[/quote]<br /><br />Actually, Ralphis&#039;s version of the WAD is 89.6 MB while mine is 75.6 MB.[/quote]Weird I thought his was 60ish. Regardless midi is still best.<br /><br /><br />[quote][quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]Has mspaint map32[/quote]That is actually what the map looks like, and there are much uglier maps in idl2012.[/quote]Its not about ugly. Its about seeing spots after 5 minutes of playing mspaint ctf. Ask blair.<br /><br /><br />[quote=MassVC][quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]Has an untested proctf map[/quote]<br /><br />Nah, we played it in skulltag.[/quote]<br />Really? I never heard that. I must applaud whoever got the board to agree to playtest on ST. You guys can&#039;t agree on anything.<br /><br /><br />[quote=MassVC][quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]So this begs the question[/quote]<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question[/quote]<br />Whatever bro. This is an obscure forum post. I&#039;m not getting a grade for writing this.<br /><br /><br />[quote=MassVC][quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=581.msg5886#msg5886 date=1326349757]Oh and Alex would like his map named properly and I understand.[/quote]<br /><br />An interesting question is how far map authors should be respected.&nbsp; Alex&#039;s map should have the correct name because he worked hard on that map and it is an excellent map.&nbsp; On the other hand, Caboose intended to have 5 spawns and Exl intended for his map to have the colors he gave it, and those both seem even more important to respecting an author&#039;s work than having the correct name of a map.&nbsp; You can&#039;t have it both ways without committing [i]ad hoc[/i] fallacies.&nbsp; Arguments about precedence don&#039;t work either.&nbsp; Maybe I can leave Alex&#039;s map misnamed for a year and we can all play on it until the misnomer becomes an IDL classic![/quote]<br />Oh come on. Really? You can apply that to anything. AlexMax intended map11 to not have a blue armor and for the bridge gaps to not be passable. R intended for map05 to have 2 different skies. Not everyone used a star sky for their map. PRO or whoever made the proctf wad didn&#039;t intend for one of their maps to be in a zd wad; it works as a whole only in ST. ZD didn&#039;t intend for their mappack to be raped and smeared with idl logos. See how ridiculous this gets? Also if you are going to keep Alex&#039;s map named wrong then you might as well keep 2 spawns lol. We might as well call map04 R&#039;s Molestation Ice Forts since map names are so trivial. Also if anyone wants to be anal about it, Cab put his spawns exactly where they are on the grid. If you move the spawns a unit away, that&#039;s not what he intended for the spawns to be!<br /><br /><br />[hr][hr]<br /><br />[quote=MassVC][b]Why is it fucked up?[/b]<br /><br />I initially released it as idl2012y.wad to get checked out by everybody for errors, but was pressured into making it a final version by the incessant whining of the player base.&nbsp; My b.[/quote]Well I&#039;m glad you personally listened to the players. Now if the board as a whole could do the same, we&#039;d not be having this discussion.<br /><br /><br />[quote=MassVC][b]Why did you break Map04 again?[/b]<br /><br />I didn&#039;t break Map04.&nbsp; Ralphis broke Map04.&nbsp; He fucked it up when he made the original versions of idl2012.wad.&nbsp; I just didn&#039;t fix it when I made the latest version.&nbsp; I didn&#039;t fix it because I didn&#039;t know it needed to be fixed, first of all because I thought Ralphis had already fixed his fuck-up in an earlier version, and second of all because he never notified me or anyone that talked to me of the changes that he made to the WAD, whether legitimate or otherwise.[/quote]<br />In fairness, Ralphis&#039; version of the wad [i]did[/i] fix map04. <br /><br /><br />Ok whatever, I think we&#039;re all tired of this wad business. In closing:<br /><br />[quote=THE FINAL IDL 2012 WAD OMG]http://speedy.sh/hun5m/idl2012final.wad[/quote]', 'xx', 1);
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	(8543, 845, 28, 1361777200, 214, 8543, 'Re: Odamex damage system compared to ZD', 'RustInPeace', 'ru5tk1ng@yahoo.com', '65.68.73.242', 1, 0, '', '[quote]I was investigating ZDoom 1.23 and it appears that the formula used there makes the shots slightly more compressed vertically and stretched a bit more which is very close (if not identical) to what ZD used.<br /><br />Upon analysis of the ZDoom 1.23 gameplay, it appears that the random engine actually manages to focus some of the shots around the center (why? idk yet), which means extra bullets naturally have a higher chance of connecting (even at a longer distance). If you want you can try it out yourself by downloading the binary of ZDoom 1.23 beta 33 and shoot the ssg at a flat wall. I tried on doom2 map01 and looking at the decals you can see that accuracy is rewarded.[/quote]<br /><br />I see. Well that seems to clear up a few things. In that context I can understand adding a new flag that would implement ZDoom 1.23 weapon physics. This would be a more realistic approach to take rather than to chase any details of ZDaemon. Since Oda is based on 1.23, I don&#039;t see it being too big of an issue to implement this co_ flag.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5056, 380, 1, 1318789085, 0, 5056, 'Re: Odamex - try it, you''ll like it!', 'capodecima', '', '88.103.101.55', 1, 0, '', 'hey question for Ralphis.<br />When start odamex duel league ?&nbsp; ???', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5058, 520, 17, 1318789719, 0, 5058, 'Re: Priv timelimit', 'capodecima', '', '88.103.101.55', 1, 0, '', 'idl matches - 10 minutes <br />priv matches - 15 minutes <br /><br />yes i am old&nbsp; :-\\', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(1769, 172, 26, 1272779258, 16, 1769, 'Re: Team Color Assignments', 'Tai', 'Tai223236@yahoo.com', '149.152.191.3', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=dew link=topic=172.msg1583#msg1583 date=1267225524]<br />your sceen turns red when you get hit, making red opponents less recognizable than the blue ones. or something. also it has been scientologically proven red colour makes people angrier than blue, so you are more prone to snap and attack your flag carrying teammate and push him into lava.<br />on the other hand, blue is the colour of despair. :&#039;(<br />[/quote]<br /><br /> ::)<br /><br />I don&#039;t even...', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8100, 789, 18, 1357685387, 8, 8100, 'IDL Winter 2013 Has Officially Begun!', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'This week marks Week 1 of the IDL Winter 2013 Season! This is a reminder to all captains that your teams availability for this week must be sent to me by [b]Tuesday @ 11:59:59 PM[/b]. Any team that does not submit their availability to me by that time will be penalized. <br /><br />Be sure to visit the [url=http://forums.intldoomleague.org/index.php?topic=787.0]Week 1 discussion and results thread[/url], and stay tuned for further news announcements.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8808, 851, 29, 1364585572, 2185, 8808, 'Re: March ''13 Open Tournament Matches and Results', 'Dragon', 'morgan.larsson@live.se', '90.231.165.57', 1, 0, '', '50 Dragon - Ru5tK1ng 43<br /><br />http://i.imgur.com/R0bWzAz.png<br /><br />GGs!', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8921, 881, 3, 1366476227, 2303, 8921, 'Re: What doom is and what doom isn''t', 'Watermelon', 'watermelonst@hotmail.com', '99.239.182.148', 1, 0, '', 'All I can conclude from this is you&#039;re bipolar, or incapable of being a father. Maybe both.<br /><br />What will the final answer be? Find out tonight at 9.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6429, 622, 17, 1331175597, 163, 6429, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.34.209.72', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=dew link=topic=622.msg6427#msg6427 date=1331169814]<br />[quote author=Hatred link=topic=622.msg6418#msg6418 date=1331157496]<br />Have [b]you[/b] lived under a rock the past [b]two years[/b]???[/quote]<br />i dunno what to say. i&#039;ve seen what the latest versions of all the ports can do while you were busy getting banned from zdaemon.<br /><br />[quote]Skulltag coop is way better. It can run almost any wad (something even ZDaemon 1.09 can&#039;t do)[/quote]<br />well, sure. there are complex zdoom wads only playable in skulltag, but they&#039;re mostly intended for the non-doom crowds you described earlier (w[i]h[/i]acky mods). when we go back to doom, i can point out wads that run on vanilla and zdaemon, but crash on skulltag and zdoom. ;(<br /><br />[quote]it supports more mapping programs (dehack etc)[/quote]<br />you say dehack[i]ed[/i], but you mean [i]decorate[/i]. not that it is anything we [i]want[/i] in online gaming, tbh. the game would never get stable.<br /><br />[quote]it introduced coop waves[/quote]<br />you mean, like, invasion? zd has invasion, although a bit hackish. never been a fan of that mode, so keept the win if you really want to.<br /><br />[quote]pk3s (something ZDaemon still can&#039;t run&nbsp; :D)[/quote]<br />you don&#039;t really know what pk3&#039;s are, right? they&#039;re just zipped wads. it&#039;s a nice feature, but to be honest, i find it completely superfluous to even use the pk3 format. thanks for nothing, zdoom.<br /><br />[quote]and just feels much better.[/quote]<br />totally. convincing.<br /><br />[quote]I was thrilled when ZDaemon added survival as a mode but it&#039;s still far behind what ST is able to do. [/quote]<br />you haven&#039;t even talked about it yet, i presume because you have no experience with it. can you even play 1.09? TNS has been here for 5 months and it has been pretty fucking cool, but you can customize 1.09 survival much more than the st survival.<br /><br />[quote]<br />Since you love Whiteboy so much and used his word as proof of ProCTF&#039;s awesomeness, why don&#039;t you ask him about ST coop, too. He, like many other avid coop/survival players in the IDL community, will tell you Skulltag coop is ten times better than ZDaemon coop.<br />[/quote]<br />again, i doubt whiteboy has ever played zdaemon survival, because you can&#039;t set up a priv server atm. you can&#039;t really use stupid arguments against me, cause i won&#039;t let you.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Whoa, Dew!! Whoa!!!! You are so pissed!!! Yes, I am glad you took the time to really argue about this with me. Honestly, I don&#039;t really care that much. I just wanted to let you know you&#039;re a worthless piece of crap and I&#039;m 50x the player you are.<br /><br />Also, I&#039;m not banned from ZDaemon and [b]I have[/b] had the chance to play some of the new survival wads out there. Nice try at trying to take a cheap shot though. Swing and a miss. <br /><br />So yeah, you pointed a few things out that I was wrong about. I&#039;m happy for you. But I really don&#039;t know what to tell you other than ST is way better for coop. It sounds like you&#039;ve never even given it a shot. When the offseason comes around, guys like me, whiteboy, nostar, mike, sabertooth, rottking and many more tend to play it a lot. If you&#039;re ever around, you&#039;re more than welcome to come and join and find out what it&#039;s like. Until then, I&#039;m just going to say I&#039;m 50x better than you and my word matters more. ', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5063, 517, 17, 1318819015, 163, 5063, 'Re: The Draft', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.18.43.209', 1, 1318819308, 'Hatred', '[quote author=Tenchew link=topic=517.msg5049#msg5049 date=1318781648]<br />[quote author=Ladna link=topic=517.msg5046#msg5046 date=1318708774]<br />If IDL had its way, Lockwolf, MionicDonut, Tenchu, Rexnor, and GhostlyDeath would be free to terrorize 3 fresh new players each season, as long as they somehow limp into playoffs every other season.[/quote]<br /><br />I don&#039;t think these judgements are exactly fair. I can&#039;t speak for the rest of those guys but let me remind you those events occurred [b]over three years ago[/b]. That&#039;s a pretty long time on the Internet. I&#039;ll admit, HWB was a complete disaster. I was plagued with scheduling problems and other personal shit that was going on that summer. But again, that was years ago and I&#039;m a different person than I was back then. I&#039;m absolutely confident that if I stepped up and managed a team this season, it would be worlds different from HWB. I&#039;m no league expert, but if you continue to hold these largely negative views on players (who have the potential to do a great deal of good for the league, mind you) over shit that happened in a different freakin&#039; decade, well then it would seem you&#039;re just hindering future growth.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I don&#039;t really think the IDL is holding this against you now. I was drafted 3 times in the beginning seasons of the IDL and flaked each time. They still allowed me to come back and eventually I became captain once I had my shit together.<br /><br />The issue with you, Tenchu, is that nobody sees you play. If you want to be allowed to be considered for captain or even the draft, you should probably play in priv and be involved/active in #idl.<br /><br />Overall, I don&#039;t see the league holding this against people for things that happened ages ago. I&#039;m a prime example of a guy who was given a second, third and fourth chance even when I didn&#039;t deserve it. You can&#039;t be mad at the IDL for not making you a captain if you&#039;re not even active. That&#039;s not how it works.<br /><br />[quote=&quot;Fastidious&quot;]Don&#039;t you think more parity would be good for growth?&nbsp; Can&#039;t changing the draft help parity?&nbsp; I don&#039;t know about you guys but I think it&#039;s boring that certain captains usually dominate season after season.&nbsp; Is it really so wrong to make it tougher for them?&nbsp; Is it a crime if no team has an undefeated record again?[/quote]<br /><br />What exactly are you proposing then? I continue to hear people say &quot;change the draft,&quot; but Mass has been the only person to explain how he&#039;d want it to change and his outlook on it&#039;s potential result. To this point, I&#039;ve seen nothing that would be an improvement over the current system. I have heard allowing people to pick their own spots, and I&#039;m not totally against that. But I, as well as people from the IDL board, would like to hear what people mean who are in favor &quot;for draft system changes.&quot; <br /><br />You aren&#039;t incorrect about certain captains dominating. But as much talk as there has been about Ralph, you have to understand he&#039;s only won 2 masterbowls out of 10. So it&#039;s not like he&#039;s in the finals every season. The reality is, most teams that win end up being completely stacked. Generally, these teams consist of two all-stars and a very capable 3rd, the last few winners suggest this:<br /><br />IDL Summer 2011 (Season 10): DMR (LB, Nostar, Gyross)<br />IDL Winter 2011 (Season 9): BSK (Jenova, DevastatioN, RottKing)<br />IDL Summer 2010 (Season 8): BSK (Jenova, Stallion, Saber)<br />IDL Winter 2010 (Season 7) SUC (Ralphis, Nostar, Fastidious)<br /><br />And the list will continue to go on. I&#039;m not saying these great players/captains don&#039;t make a difference but they&#039;re not dominating with a bunch of scrubs. They&#039;re getting great players. Changing the draft won&#039;t make the rest of community great, but if we can somehow get more capable captains who aren&#039;t incapable of doing anything positive on the field, then that&#039;s definitely a step in the right direction. <br /><br />The other reoccurring word I&#039;ve seen is parity. I am not against parity at all, nobody is. But we&#039;re not going to achieve parity by screwing the good captains. It&#039;s going to have the opposite effect. For example, it&#039;s not parity if we give Legion (sorry buddy, this is just an example!) 1# and #12 type talent while we give Ralphis 24# and 25# type talent. Legion winning the masterbowl while Ralphis almost going winless is not parity. So far, from how people want to achieve said parity, this is what would happen if we went through with it (or at least, odds would be in favor of it happening). Parity is defined as being equal, not flipping the league 180 degrees and giving the less-winning players that advantage while screwing the good ones. <br /><br />How can we achieve parity? I&#039;ve already said it and you know where it&#039;s going so I won&#039;t repeat what&#039;s already been said thousands of times. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(5065, 517, 17, 1318832356, 19, 5065, 'Re: The Draft', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.183.245', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Beast link=topic=517.msg5052#msg5052 date=1318783073]<br />Requirement to be a captain: play at least 1 full idl season with x% attendance <br /> <br />1. people should put in bids to be captains, if enough bids from eligible players aren&#039;t received the board should appoint veteran players at their discretion<br /><br />2. order of the draft, if captains return then you adjust the order accorfing to last seasons win percentage(masterbowl champs are obviously last etc...) If a captain is not returning for w/e reason assign a newly bidded captain that team (note the captain, if desired must change the name after the team is finalized) then the name change must be propagated out to reflect ongoing states (pain in the ass but ladna and other smart programmers exist)<br /><br /><br />3. Allow a period for captains to trade players for draft picks (obviously all this shit im mentioning needs to occur in a logical order)<br /><br />....im up in the air about franchising, honestly im neutral but if your a good captain that is active, maybe you should after like 2 seasons be eligible to franchise with players<br /><br />Its a grey area and some people think this ruins competition, my only reply is adapt<br />[/quote]<br /><br />This is actually one of the best posts so far because it&#039;s a series of suggestions that directly impact how the draft is carried out, which in itself may not be the issue but rather it seems all talk revolves around captains themselves.<br /><br />I think this is a great standpoint, but would like two full seasons to be on the record of a player before they can submit a serious bid to captain. I do not think we should return the franchising, and would like to see your third point fleshed out in more detail and subject to greater debate.<br /><br />Cool stuff so far though~', 'xx', 1);
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	(5907, 581, 17, 1326418887, 73, 5907, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'Quiksilver', 'joshbryantmusic@gmail.com', '99.71.124.161', 1, 0, '', 'Hey, I made one of the maps for PROctf.wad <br /><br />Can anyone tell me which proctf map was used, because I&#039;m curious.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6207, 606, 17, 1329043872, 19, 6207, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.124.253', 1, 0, '', 'You still can&#039;t use it?????', 'xx', 1);
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	(5061, 517, 17, 1318808393, 0, 5061, 'Re: The Draft', 'Fastidious', '', '76.217.105.103', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Tenchew link=topic=517.msg5049#msg5049 date=1318781648] those events occurred [b]over three years ago[/b].<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I agree people should get more chances but your IDL history is not good at all.&nbsp; There are players who played about as much in one season as you have in four.&nbsp; I think the IDL board would take many potential captains over you, but if there is no one else they might let you try again.<br /><br />http://wiki.intldoomleague.org/index.php?title=Tenchu', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5062, 517, 17, 1318808798, 0, 5062, 'Re: The Draft', 'Fastidious', '', '76.217.105.103', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Hatred link=topic=517.msg5048#msg5048 date=1318750772]<br />The question becomes how do we promote the IDL and and find ways to bring in new blood. The continuous word I&#039;ve seen throughout all of these threads is &quot;growth.&quot; We want the IDL to grow, so we have to find new players. That&#039;s the key.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Don&#039;t you think more parity would be good for growth?&nbsp; Can&#039;t changing the draft help parity?&nbsp; I don&#039;t know about you guys but I think it&#039;s boring that certain captains usually dominate season after season.&nbsp; Is it really so wrong to make it tougher for them?&nbsp; Is it a crime if no team has an undefeated record again?', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6759, 658, 22, 1336515719, 209, 6759, 'Re: IDL Summer 2012 Signups', 'AlexMax', 'alexmax2742@gmail.com', '24.74.30.216', 1, 0, '', 'Name: AlexMax<br />Country/State: USA/North Carolina<br />Email contact: alexmax2742@gmail.com<br />Instant Message Contact: AlexMax on quakenet/oftc<br />Regular Availability: Most weekday evenings after 6:30 PM EST.&nbsp; Most weekends anytime afternoon/evening.<br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(6777, 660, 22, 1336729985, 163, 6777, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.132.57', 1, 0, '', '[quote=&quot;dew&quot;]i don&#039;t see how this is supposed to attract any of the listed gentlemen.[/quote]<br /><br />Some of it is harmless fun but the overall message still stands. I figured some humor might go a little further than the normal &quot;dude please sign up, we need you bad!&quot;<br /><br />[quote=&quot;Xenaero&quot;]10 years of competitive activity in anything is a considerable length of time. Odamex is a great port, but I&#039;ve retired, so I don&#039;t consider myself a competitive player anymore. I might be in privs here and there when time allows.<br /><br />It wasn&#039;t a port change that stopped me from playing competitively. Since retiring I&#039;ve been in a much better place. Good luck to all participants in the upcoming season![/quote]<br /><br />I understand we&#039;re you&#039;re coming from, I&#039;m entering my 10 year mark pretty soon as well. I also understand that this wasn&#039;t port related for you, if I recall correctly you were always a big Oda supporter. <br /><br />As far as being in a better place I suppose you can&#039;t really argue with that either. It does require a commitment to play in this league and at times it doesn&#039;t seem worth it. However, with the shortened season and the prospect of playing with a lot of new players, I feel more inspired to play to pass down the knowledge I&#039;ve gained more than anything. <br /><br />I hope you change your mind. Maybe some time away will give you the refreshment you needed. Perhaps considering going back to being a captain isn&#039;t a bad call either. Either way, I think you can be an impact player for a championship team and I truly wish to see you back. Best of luck!<br /><br />[quote=&quot;RustInPeace&quot;]Some of those names you listed have been playing for years. I think they have come to a point where they have played for long enough. I&#039;ve only played in 3 seasons and I already want to do something else. I can only imagine how guys like chewy, star and xen feel. Personally I have grown tired of IDL being in the forefront: many practices, meeting scheduled games, learning new maps, playing for several hours a week, yelling at people. That is why I am not going to cap during the summer. I don&#039;t have the drive to commit as I have in the past seasons and I surely don&#039;t want to end up as a half-assed captain. I don&#039;t think anyone is being a bitch. Some of us want to go do something else instead of sitting at a computer.<br /><br />Remember, it&#039;s the summer. The time where you go outside, enjoy the weather, and simply have fun. 8)[/quote]<br /><br />This isn&#039;t an invalid claim either. As I mentioned, it does take a commitment to play at a competitive level in this league. I don&#039;t think anyone who does&#039;t sign up is a bitch either. I&#039;m just having some fun is all. You of all people should know this by now! <br /><br />As far as the lack of ambition or drive to give it your all, the only response I have to that is we&#039;ll have a longer time off than usual between winter and summer league plus the shorter season since we&#039;re going back to 8 teams. I know it&#039;s only one game but goodness does it seem to make a difference. <br /><br />Also, going outside? You&#039;re the whitest Mexican I know, which indicates to me that you definitely don&#039;t go outside. Okay, maybe you cut some lawns or build some decks but that doesn&#039;t count. <br /><br />Basically, I just want this to be as competitive as possible. I still want to see marquee names on the draft list. My dream scenario would be to have every team have two veterans plus a new player. I know this isn&#039;t likely but I think there are still enough of us old guys lingering around to make it happen. The players I mentioned weren&#039;t singled out or more or less important than anyone else, just the first people I thought of. That said, I still think those players could make a significant impact. <br /><br />I urge all of the veterans players still around to give IDL one more shot. This is a huge transition and with all the new players seemingly coming into the fold, I think we can have an enormous impact on them if their first experience of the IDL is a positive one. Let&#039;s give it our all and make this thing work. <br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(7472, 723, 22, 1346628932, 158, 7472, 'Re: Simplifying a Situation', 'Jenova', 'cya-nide@hotmail.com', '184.175.47.196', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=723.msg7468#msg7468 date=1346615752]<br />at this time, tosen is no longer in H, having been kicked for his actions<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I heard he wasn&#039;t kicked, but rather chose to leave himself?', 'xx', 1);
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	(1727, 172, 26, 1269805393, 7, 1727, 'Re: Team Color Assignments', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '69.160.204.189', 1, 0, '', 'Yeah this is a little known new feature of ZDaemon since... 1.08.06 I think.&nbsp; If you&#039;re worried about the red screen blinding you just make your opponents white or green.<br /><br />Really we just did this so we could make a team quit being faggots and get on the other team.&nbsp; In Season 6 there were lots of instances where both teams would pile up on red or blue, and yell at each other for 20 minutes to get on the other team.&nbsp; Now there&#039;s no excuse, you know what team we&#039;ll make you play on, so practice that side.&nbsp; I could make some smart-ass comment about &quot;having faith in the player base&quot;, but I think I&#039;m better than that ;) .', 'xx', 1);
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	(1587, 172, 26, 1267240120, 157, 1587, 'Re: Team Color Assignments', 'Legion_', 'theomegaantin00b@gmail.com', '71.116.2.222', 1, 0, '', 'To cause a ruckus over such a subtle, superfluous reason is the apex of DUM.<br /><br />It&#039;s a shame that people like Ladna have to go to extreme lengths to solve situations like this!', 'xx', 1);
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	(1583, 172, 26, 1267225524, 75, 1583, 'Re: Team Color Assignments', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '213.168.179.157', 1, 0, '', 'your sceen turns red when you get hit, making red opponents less recognizable than the blue ones. or something. also it has been scientologically proven red colour makes people angrier than blue, so you are more prone to snap and attack your flag carrying teammate and push him into lava.<br />on the other hand, blue is the colour of despair. :&#039;(', 'xx', 1);
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	(1581, 172, 26, 1267223123, 157, 1581, 'Re: Team Color Assignments', 'Legion_', 'theomegaantin00b@gmail.com', '71.116.2.222', 1, 0, '', 'pardon me for asking but is there any reason at ALL for refusing to play on a certain color<br /><br />I mean, does it make any sense to you? For me it does not.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5066, 517, 17, 1318855095, 147, 5066, 'Re: The Draft', 'LordBritish', 'a_west_2007@hotmail.com', '141.110.189.29', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=517.msg5061#msg5061 date=1318808393]I agree people should get more chances but your IDL history is not good at all.&nbsp; There are players who played about as much in one season as you have in four.[/quote]<br /><br />I played 1 game through my first 2 seasons, 7 games through my first 3.&nbsp; Now I&#039;m MVP, Masterbowl winning captain, perennial all-star, etc.&nbsp; Things change.<br /><br />[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=517.msg5065#msg5065 date=1318832356]<br />I think this is a great standpoint, but would like two full seasons to be on the record of a player before they can submit a serious bid to captain.[/quote]<br /><br />I would tend to agree, if not for the WDC last year.&nbsp; Prime to MB, Mass (although he was albatross, I don&#039;t really count that) to conf champ, both second year players.&nbsp; They may be exceptions, but it bears noting.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5071, 517, 17, 1318897506, 0, 5071, 'Re: The Draft', 'Fastidious', '', '76.217.105.103', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=517.msg5064#msg5064 date=1318824012]<br />[b]Fun fact:[/b] Only 4/10 teams have ever won the entire league with teams built entirely from the draft.[/quote]<br /><br />That&#039;d be more a case for removing trading.&nbsp;  8)&nbsp; Also RNB had some pre-draft shenanigans which might be possible to interpret as trading.&nbsp; I think we switched #1 and #2 draft spots with Donut to ensure we got Whiteboy.&nbsp; Donut then got mid who was worthless to him I think then traded mid to another team where he owned, haha.<br /><br />[quote author=Ralphis link=topic=517.msg5064#msg5064 date=1318824012]How exactly is the draft broken?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Is there one person saying it&#039;s broken?&nbsp; I sure am not.&nbsp; I&#039;m just saying I would support some tweaks to attempt more parity.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6760, 660, 22, 1336521273, 8, 6760, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', 'Hatred should add himself to this list. Stop being a bitch, grow some balls, and tell your wife you&#039;re playing in the IDL. ', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(9372, 949, 18, 1380336924, 2303, 9379, 'Week 5 Gametimes', 'Watermelon', 'watermelonst@hotmail.com', '99.245.130.4', 1, 1380389596, 'Watermelon', 'Sorry this has been a bit late, this week has been chaotic for both myself and Bones. Some people decided to give Bones their avails when he&#039;s been out, so I never got them as I&#039;m gone before he gets home (which is late).<br />Nonetheless the show is going on, if you have a time can you please PM me on IRC -- or if I&#039;m not on -- on the IDL forums.<br /><br />Game times:<br />[b]RMR vs B4:[/b] 9:30 pm EST Sunday<br />[b]KGB vs RRS:[/b] 7:30pm EST Sunday<br />[b]SXP vs SUC:[/b] 6:30pm EST Sunday(?)<br /><br />These will be filled out as soon as the last captain on each team gets me their time (I have RRS and SXP&#039;s)', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7473, 725, 22, 1346632075, 8, 7473, 'Re: IDL SUMMER 2012 ALLSTAR SELECTION', 'HumanBones', 'humanbones@intldoomleague.org', '108.207.0.195', 1, 0, '', '[color=blue][size=3][b]International Doom Conference[/b][/size][/color]<br />Nosturi<br />DemonSphere<br />Ralphis<br />Stallion<br />Saber<br /><br />[color=red][size=3]World Doom Conference[/size][/color]<br />Ru5tK1ng<br />Legion<br />Fluffles<br />ThatsJustPrime<br />SoulSucka', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8101, 788, 25, 1357703073, 16, 8101, 'Re: The Next Faggot That Reports A Post Is Banned', 'Tai', 'Tai223236@yahoo.com', '98.216.91.67', 1, 0, '', 'Why don&#039;t you show your face once in a millennium. Does Whiteboy still exist? ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(8809, 851, 29, 1364588236, 214, 8809, 'Re: March ''13 Open Tournament Matches and Results', 'RustInPeace', 'ru5tk1ng@yahoo.com', '98.197.197.44', 1, 0, '', 'GG Dragon, I expect to see you take part in the next open for our rematch.&nbsp; 8)<br /><br />Still waiting on Fluff and SlordBritish to play.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5074, 517, 17, 1318916091, 163, 5074, 'Re: The Draft', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.39.25.253', 1, 0, '', 'Eh, you would think so, Swift but it depends. If he&#039;s cheated on ST but there&#039;s never been real proof of him cheating in ZD or an IDL game, they&#039;re not going to disallow him from participating. <br /><br /><br />It&#039;s like I said, he can&#039;t expect to be made a captain if he [b]never[/b] plays. We constantly call priv&#039;s all day and he&#039;s not seen in one. That&#039;s not exactly reassuring. <br /><br />Start playing in priv, start interacting with the community a bit more, be active in discussions or anything IDL related and you will definitely get some consideration. Whether it would happen or not is a different story. I don&#039;t recall you being that good (no offense) and we&#039;re currently in the business of trying to eliminate lower-tier level captains. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6431, 622, 17, 1331179648, 163, 6431, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.34.209.72', 1, 0, '', 'HOLY SHIT RUST YOU&#039;RE RIGHT SORRY DEW ', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5094, 513, 20, 1319091074, 64, 5094, 'Re: Jenova +  Bloviating = Jenoviating', 'BloodStrike', 'fat1802002@yahoo.com', '71.63.215.76', 1, 0, '', 'Are you guys arguing over the internet? Most importantly, are you guys actually arguing over a VIDEO GAME? You both are losers.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5097, 514, 17, 1319129814, 130, 5097, 'Re: &quot;Better&quot; Captains', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=dew link=topic=514.msg5095#msg5095 date=1319114927]<br />because it is such a shortsighted and inflammatory idea. there is hard evidence on how devastating the cap scheduling can get - from all the other leagues that ever existed to IDL itself. commish scheduling obviously improved the situation a lot, so going back to relying on caps doing the extra leg work can be seen as destructive by people who prioritize the integrity of the league over novelty and experimenting.[/quote]<br /><br />I didn&#039;t mean captains scheduling. I mean players submitting avails. And considering you jumped to a conclusion of your own and called it inflammatory and short sighted I&#039;m going to assume you take that stuff back and aren&#039;t just being unnecessarily aggressive.<br /><br />[quote]tiering was discussed immediatelly after bones was made the commish in the previous off-season. it was rejected then, because the proponents (me among them) couldn&#039;t build a strong case. [/quote]<br /><br />If I&#039;m remembering correctly the board is 60% newer than when Bones was made commish. And if you still think tiering is an acceptable practice then the board potentially has a super majority for a vote. Let&#039;s talk about it again.<br /><br />[quote]you&#039;re building a complex system depending on a lot of controversial &quot;tools&quot; at every step. from top down:<br /><br />1: your ultimate goal is higher team parity, a rather nebulous concept not easily proved by numbers, especially with all the other factors at work. [/quote]<br /><br />I would say that parity in this case means parity of record. And by that metric it is very easily proved by the numbers.<br /><br />[quote]2: you plan to boost team parity by picking caps of relatively equal skill and rejecting those outside of the safe zone. this by itself is a highly controversial concept. you literally proposed that we could place the &quot;skill center&quot; low enough to attract more average caps, meaning ralphis, jenova and nostar would be rejected to make room for rexnor, dew and quiksilver, because the latter three would lower the cap skill variance and make the league more equal. shouldn&#039;t we discuss this idea first before we move on to tiering? because i don&#039;t really think it&#039;d help the league.[/quote]<br /><br />I proposed a lot of things. I&#039;m not wild about a season of lower skilled captains but I think toward the end of parity it was a valid idea. I believe that we can keep the &quot;skill-center&quot; relatively high from my conversations with players who might captain and I&#039;m willing to work to get 12 high level players as captains. I think it would help league parity and the lesser talked about league morale.<br /><br />[quote]3: to quantify the process of selecting equal caps, we need tiering. we need to vote on people like we vote on maps... and last time i checked, the board was pretty flaky in that regard too. frankly, the subjectivity involved is just staggering. how do you rank xen, for example? tier 1 with good connection, but tier 2 with bad connection and tier 3 with bad connection and a spell of xenrage? should we rank even people who obviously don&#039;t want to cap, just so we have everyone in their rightful tier? wait, i forgot - did we actually all agree on the fact that player skill equals cap skill, or at least that the cap skill addition to the player skill is negligible for our needs? i don&#039;t think we did.[/quote]<br /><br />I think the way we tier people is up for discussion. I personally don&#039;t have much of a problem doing it because I make the tiers rather vague. I think A LOT of captain skill is player skill. I think you can be as clever and dedicated as you want but if you can&#039;t shoot your team is going to struggle. I also think activity and availability is an important factor and I don&#039;t think that quantifying these things is too difficult, especially not in the vague sense that we would need for captain selection.<br /><br />[quote]your system [i]might[/i] work, but you&#039;d need all your changes applied. they&#039;re mostly superfluous taken out of context - why tier players if we don&#039;t plan to &quot;center&quot; caps or even boost parity this way? and when put together... well, that&#039;d be a very different IDL. [/quote]<br /><br />Yeah you&#039;re right, I jumped right to &quot;parity is good&quot;. And it&#039;s not something I even want to talk about anymore. It just is good. Having teams more even in any regard is positive. I can&#039;t believe we even had those conversations.<br /><br />Furthermore what other changes do you mean? You mean that I think we need to agree on a metric for picking captains? I really do. Right now we seriously just take whoever signs up. Let&#039;s figure out why more people don&#039;t want to captain and make it better. Let&#039;s pick the best captains by whatever metric we agree to. Let&#039;s talk openly about what that metric is rather than just deciding that one player would make a better captain than another, let&#039;s have a reason. One of the things that we don&#039;t acknowledge is that we already rank players in this process, we just don&#039;t vocalize it or publish it. I guess that is courteous but it&#039;s disingenuous to say that we don&#039;t.<br /><br />[quote]i also can&#039;t overlook how conveniently close this moves to demanding caps to prioritize players from higher tiers in the draft. and then threatening them or (voting on) banning them when they don&#039;t comply. kinda like it happens in IDL priv. (yes, i&#039;m still sour.)[/quote]<br /><br />Other than you being mad I kickbanned you I have no idea what this statement means. I guess if you mean that a captain that picks very poorly in a draft might be ousted then yeah, you&#039;re right. Assuming there is someone we think is more qualified the following season that may or may not be true. On the other had a captain that picks well and does badly might be ousted too. It really depends on what we decide the metric for captaincy is and the volunteers for captains we get on a season to season basis.<br /><br />[quote]uh, team names affect team parity, player skills or cap volunteering? i don&#039;t see it. it&#039;s a vanity issue and shouldn&#039;t be mixed into league system discussions, imo.[/quote]<br /><br />No one said team names had anything to do with parity. I do think it affects people wanting to captain. In my opinion naming is fun and it makes teams more personal to both the captain and the players. It also allows for some IDL community hilarity that we don&#039;t really have anymore. Again, IDL morale is at stake!<br /><br />[quote]<br />afaik we already dismiss caps who don&#039;t fit our criteria - naut got dismissed, didn&#039;t he? i don&#039;t see how dismissing all of them is needed. you yourself said we&#039;d just picked most of them again and there are usually more vacancies than immediate candidates.[/quote]<br /><br />I actually think that the idea of a seasonal captain review is good because the people who want to captain from season to season changes. If one season we have a low number of cap volunteers and the next we have a rather high number shouldn&#039;t it be at the league&#039;s discretion to pick the best batch regardless of who capped the previous season? I contend that it should be and that right now I can find 4-5 captains better than the ones we have. Instead of having to make a case for all 5, relative to their sitting captain counterpart, I think a system would be very helpful.<br /><br />[quote] i don&#039;t know what to do about this or even why bother. it will always be there, no matter how we try to gloss it over. maybe start nostar&#039;s academy for idl captains and share your wisdom, i bet some of them would improve just by hearing useful hints and example scenarios from you, one of the most successful caps of all time. i use a slightly snide tone, but i mean it - why reorganize the system to cater to worse players, when the logical way should be to help them improve to higher standards?[/quote]<br /><br />The question is not whether it will be there but how large it will be. I made this point in my previous two posts. If only I had the time to teach, unfortunately there is not glory and very little pussy in teaching so I kindly refuse. I&#039;m not even remotely suggesting that we reorganize the system to cater to lower skilled captains. I&#039;m saying let&#039;s fix it so we don&#039;t have to by picking captains that have a closer proximity to one another in skill. That would do a lot to close the skill disparity gap among captains.<br /><br />Anyway my point is that it wouldn&#039;t be hard to narrow the skill gap between captains. I think it would make the league better and more fun overall. Tiering players is one way to do it. Arranging the draft to screw good captains and reward crappy ones is another. Doing nothing is pretty much a way to do nothing and we should avoid that. ', 'xx', 1);
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	(5909, 579, 20, 1326422158, 1952, 5909, 'Re: Post Demos Here', 'Junior', 'driftstyles93@yahoo.com', '71.164.94.156', 1, 0, '', 'http://www.mediafire.com/?x5c1017wqtrqv11<br /><br />Week 1 KGB v. PBH', 'xx', 1);
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	(6776, 660, 22, 1336707143, 267, 6778, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'RecKle$$_', 'Aesthesic@hotmail.com', '189.135.236.113', 1, 1336743114, 'RecKle$$_', '[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=660.msg6766#msg6766 date=1336539142]<br />Reck, there are plenty of games that are played during the weekdays. College folks usually have a more flexible schedule and are willing to play weekday games. You can enjoy yourself on the weekend and fit doom into your work schedule alongside your daily dogwashing duties. :)<br />[/quote]<br />yeah i guess you&#039;re right so im gonna think about it and try to find a way to hide from my friends/&quot;work&quot; and anoying &quot;one week gf&#039;s&quot; at least sundays and if i find a way to do that... ill confirm my invitation,get high and win. im also waiting for the new oda release..and if i find it cozy enought for me im p sure i will play cuz right now feels kinda shitty cuz i cant maxime the game screen without having to change the resolution<br />', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(134, 16, 2, 1214949374, 0, 134, 'Re: Interesting Note', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.232.124', 1, 0, '', 'I imagine things will be changed for next season to try and close loop holes and smooth things out.&nbsp; I think you shouldn&#039;t be able to refuse playing for a captain.&nbsp; If you are afraid of being on a losing team and not mature enough to deal with that do not sign up for the IDL.', 'xx', 1);
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	(178, 19, 2, 1216098619, 0, 178, 'Re: Week 6 (Jul 7 - Jul 13) : ZDCTF08', 'Fastidious', '', '24.15.221.244', 1, 0, '', '[img]http://www.totaltrash.org/Fastidious/IDL%20Summer%202008/Week6/RNBvsMAD/RNBvsMAD.png[/img]<br /><br />LAZY VERSION', 'xx', 1);
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	(6462, 624, 20, 1331243414, 213, 6462, 'Re: Regular Season Awards Discussion', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Tony link=topic=624.msg6460#msg6460 date=1331243160]<br />Deww on a scale of 1 to Xen, how mad are you ?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Xing!', 'xx', 1);
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	(9409, 954, 18, 1381337338, 75, 9409, 'Re: IDL Staff Update: Co-Commissioner Named', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=KBlair link=topic=954.msg9403#msg9403 date=1381254206]<br />should&#039;ve just let the league stay dead<br />[/quote]<br />- a flyers fan on the beginning of the 2013/14 season', 'xx', 1);
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	(8659, 857, 17, 1363024039, 18, 9468, 'The Downfall of IDL?', 'oath', 'mattthejedi@gmail.com', '96.35.72.230', 1, 1384471969, 'oath', 'The only reason I was ever around was to play doom 2 CTF. It was the most fast paced game I had ever played, and the focus and adrenaline that it required to play hooked me in. Years and years of this bullshit drove away all the guys who were here to have FUN while playing against the best players. The competition was fun. The adrenaline rush felt great. I wish people still played for the sake of having fun playing this video game, and stop bitching about the chat preferences and the movement coding and the politics of this doom port and that doom port. I still get on ZDaemon from time to time looking for public games so I can have some fun, But nobody plays that anymore. I dunno, I figured I&#039;d give you one guy&#039;s perspective on why this league went to shit.', 'xx', 1);
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	(5075, 517, 17, 1318961717, 0, 5075, 'Re: The Draft', 'Fastidious', '', '75.4.132.20', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=LordBritish link=topic=517.msg5066#msg5066 date=1318855095]Things change.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />That&#039;s true but it&#039;s not like your change happened over night.&nbsp; We should always give people more chances (and not just a second chance but a third, fourth, fifth, etc) but they have to prove they are a little interested by doing stuff like playing priv, basically what Hatred said.<br /><br />A point Ladna tried to raise during the radio discussion was is it necessarily good for Tai to permanently have KGB and be in IDC North?&nbsp; I know Ralphis and some other captains like the same setup each year where returning captains stay in the same conf and div but I&#039;d like to see it mixed up.&nbsp; Ralphis talks about rivalries and such, but Ralphis has had no problem finding these no matter what team he is on.&nbsp; Every season I always hear him talk about specific matches and how he really wants to beat player/captain X.&nbsp; In some ways it is limiting because it locks these rivalries in without as much change as you could have moving returning captains around.&nbsp; Maybe someone else wants a piece of Tai?<br /><br />An idea I had is allowing captains to pick their div/conf or just outright randomizing it.<br /><br />I&#039;m not 100% sure what the drafts changes are either, could someone from the board detail them here?&nbsp; My basic understanding is new captains who are slotted into picks 1-3 and 9-12 move 3 slots into the middle.&nbsp; Captains pick their own spot then based on the draft order.', 'xx', 1);
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	(6209, 606, 17, 1329065145, 0, 6209, 'Re: Demo rule clarifications', 'Fastidious', '', '75.4.140.81', 1, 0, '', 'ZD is also a piece of shit and corrupts demos at times even when you record them.&nbsp; I also know of players who have had this happen in the past then submitted other POVs as their demo without being caught and in these cases I don&#039;t blame them.&nbsp; I know that has happened to me at least once for an infraction in the past during our most important match of the season no less.&nbsp; I should have lied about it like most players probably do when ZD corrupts the demo.&nbsp; Doom needs server side multiview demos like QW.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6761, 660, 22, 1336533962, 267, 6761, 'Re: Don''t be a bitch; sign up!', 'RecKle$$_', 'Aesthesic@hotmail.com', '189.135.166.48', 1, 1336534053, 'RecKle$$_', '[quote author=RustInPeace link=topic=660.msg6749#msg6749 date=1336488737]<br /><br />Remember, it&#039;s the summer. The time where you go outside, enjoy the weather, and simply have fun. 8)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Amen rust u cant be more right,summer is the time when you go outside and pick up groupies at gigs and simply have fun.<br /><br />like rust im done with idl,reason? well since most of games happens fridays,saturday,sundays either im not at home or im not...sober enought to play and i kinda feel like playing since i finally after 3 years i got a very decent connection but i rather being a bitch and dont sing up than sign up and let my team down but anyway,i wish u faggots the best of lucks,oda has lot of future (not as good as zd yet) but still oda staff is doing a really great job&nbsp; ;)', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7360, 716, 17, 1345718021, 75, 7360, 'Re: SECOND SEMI-ANNUAL MAPPING CONTEST', 'dew', 'dewww@seznam.cz', '178.209.142.37', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Watermelon link=topic=716.msg7356#msg7356 date=1345697186]<br />What is your stance on making more space for new maps by removing ones that already are included and duplicated by MBx maps, like:<br />[/quote]<br />this was actually brought up with the previous board... and perhaps it&#039;s time to ask the new one again.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5073, 518, 30, 1318915123, 157, 5073, 'Re: IDL Radio', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '71.115.127.61', 1, 0, '', 'I liked it. do it again', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(1242, 150, 26, 1260514098, 7, 1242, 'Forfeiture Affects Draft Position (Retroactivity)', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '99.186.236.81', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Ladna link=topic=128.msg995#msg995 date=1249514658]<br />The following language was added to the Gameplay section, and applies retroactively:<br /><br />[b]Forfeiture[/b]<br /><br />For each game a team forfeits, willingly or not, their draft pick positions will be lowered by one. For example, if VGR would normally have had the 5th draft pick and they forfeit a game, they consequently have the 6th draft pick.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />The retroactivity clause of this rule has been revoked.&nbsp; The rule will take effect in Winter 2010.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(6432, 622, 17, 1331180746, 157, 6432, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '71.115.99.65', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=622.msg6422#msg6422 date=1331167016]<br />[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=622.msg6421#msg6421 date=1331165889]<br />incorrect, you should aim better (you&#039;re a defender, right? lol)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />http://skulltag.net/tracker/view.php?id=31#c131<br />[/quote]<br />so what, I am able to kill flag runners just as well as on zdaemon. perhaps you should aim a bit better?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5078, 517, 17, 1318986395, 147, 5078, 'Re: The Draft', 'LordBritish', 'a_west_2007@hotmail.com', '24.209.35.212', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=517.msg5075#msg5075 date=1318961717]<br />[quote author=LordBritish link=topic=517.msg5066#msg5066 date=1318855095]Things change.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />That&#039;s true but it&#039;s not like your change happened over night.&nbsp; <br />[/quote]<br /><br />It happened as soon as I got decent net :)', 'xx', 1);
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	(5910, 567, 20, 1326423307, 19, 5910, 'Re: Week 1 (JAN 2 -  JAN 8) : ZDE19 (MAP29) - Discussion and Results', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '76.4.113.34', 1, 0, '', 'What do you guys think was the best play this week? If you can give me a time during a demo to look at it too that would be amazing.', 'xx', 1);
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	(20, 2, 2, 1212986210, 0, 30, 'Re: Week 1 (June 2nd-8th) : ZDCTFMP07', 'Fastidious', '', '24.15.221.244', 1, 1213013491, 'Fastidious', '[color=red][b][size=10pt]RNB - 2[/size][/b][/color]<br /><br />Game 1: Fast, White, Gilga - 2<br />Game 2: Fast, White, Gilga - 3<br /><br />[b][size=10pt][color=blue]CRK - 0[/color][/size][/b]<br /><br />Game 1: Donut, Mid, Flow - 0<br />Game 2: Donut, Mid, Flow - 0<br /><br />http://rapidshare.com/files/121116603/RNB_vs_CRK-Week1-ZDCTFMP-Map07-Whiteboy.zip.html', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(42, 6, 2, 1213573980, 0, 42, 'Re: Week 2 (June 9th-15th) : ODA01', 'Fastidious', '', '24.15.221.244', 1, 0, '', '[size=12pt][b][color=blue]RNB - 2[/color][/b][/size]<br /><br />Game 1: Fastidious, Whiteboy, Gilgamesh - 5<br />Game 2: Whiteboy, Gilgamesh, Gax - 5<br /><br />[size=12pt][b][color=red]HWB - 0[/color][/b][/size]<br /><br />Game 1: Mikefails, Redshirt, Bolt - 0<br />Game 2: Tenchu, Mikefails, Redshirt - 2', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(86, 9, 2, 1214333285, 0, 86, 'Re: Week 3 (June 16th-22nd) : ZDCTF19', 'Fastidious', '', '24.15.221.244', 1, 0, '', '[b][size=12pt][color=red]RNB - 2[/color][/size][/b]<br /><br />Game 1: Fastidious, Whiteboy, Gilgamesh - 4<br />Game 2: Fastidious, Whiteboy, Gilgamesh - 1<br /><br />[b][size=12pt][color=blue]MAD - 0[/color][/size][/b]<br /><br />Game 1: DoomGuy666, Oscar, Xephyr - 1<br />Game 2: DoomGuy666, Oscar, Xephyr&nbsp; - 0<br />', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(90, 12, 2, 1214444225, 0, 90, 'Stats', 'Fastidious', '', '24.15.221.244', 1, 0, '', 'As per usual.&nbsp; This season thus far there have been some big blow outs early.&nbsp; You can see it reflected in much higher cap scores than normal and generally low frags.<br /><br />http://www.totaltrash.org/Fastidious/IDL%20Summer%202008/top_individual_stats.txt', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(7195, 702, 22, 1343635335, 163, 7195, 'Re: WEEK 4 - MAP10 IDLC201121 (JUL 23 - JUL 29) - Discussion and Results', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '76.233.129.66', 1, 0, '', 'You sound pretty angry Ralphis...<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />...[size=7]ODAMEX SUCKS.[/size]', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(195, 21, 2, 1216928377, 0, 195, 'Re: Week 8 (July 21st-27th) : ZDCTF26', 'Fastidious', '', '24.15.221.244', 1, 0, '', 'Bang Bros v Reign in Blood DIV -[b] RNB 2:0[/b], I&#039;m just praying it&#039;s 3v3.<br /><br />Frag Fags &amp; Flag v Cereal Killers [b]DIV CRK 2:1[/b], I have to admit this prediction relies a bit on rumor.&nbsp; I&#039;ve heard Bloodstrike is getting kicked from the IDL(?), if that is true I expect CRK to be able to take this one.&nbsp; If not and Blood plays FFF 2:0.<br /><br />ContraBanned v We&#039;re All Doomed DIV [b]CTB 2:1[/b], I expect CTB to have better strat here which will nudge them to victory.<br /><br />Deep Thrusts v Cupid Stunts DIV [b]DPT 2:0[/b] Again I don&#039;t have much idea what&#039;s going with CUP.&nbsp; After Shakal and now Saber quit I have a feeling they&#039;ll be lucky to play any of their remaining matches 3v3, let alone win any.&nbsp; DPT is a much stronger team, but I expect CUP to be disorganized and not offer much resistance.<br /><br />Cookie Monsters v Mass Destruction [b]cM 2:0[/b] Reinvigorated with new life cM is now a contender for the masterbowl IMO.&nbsp; I expect them to blow MAD out of the water.', 'xx', 1);
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	(216, 22, 2, 1217594394, 0, 216, 'Re: Week 9 (July 28th-August 4th) : ZDCTF04', 'Fastidious', '', '24.15.221.244', 1, 0, '', '[size=16pt][color=red][b]RNB: 2[/b][/color][/size]<br /><br />*Game 1: Fastidious, Whiteboy, Gilgamesh - 4 Flags<br />*Game 2: Fastidious, Whiteboy, Gilgamesh - 4 Flags<br /><br />[b][color=blue][size=16pt]FFF: 0[/size][/color][/b]<br /><br />*Game 1: Tai, Blood, Beast - 0 Flags<br />*Game 2: Tai, Blood, Beast - 1 Flags', 'xx', 1);
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	(6762, 658, 22, 1336535474, 15, 6762, 'Re: IDL Summer 2012 Signups', 'ItalianStallion', 'stalliondoom@gmail.com', '72.53.140.59', 1, 0, '', 'Name: ItalianStallion<br />Country/State: QUEERBEC, CANUCKLAND<br />Email contact: lepizzle13@gmail.com<br />Instant Message Contact: IRC<br />Regular Availability: Most weekday evenings, Sunday all day.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(8709, 847, 28, 1363278152, 2303, 8709, 'Re: Odamex player movement compared to ZD', 'Watermelon', 'watermelonst@hotmail.com', '99.239.182.148', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=847.msg8708#msg8708 date=1363237966]<br />[quote author=Watermelon link=topic=847.msg8628#msg8628 date=1362847215]<br />If it&#039;s possible could you share with us as well, I&#039;m also interested in how ZD handles the movement<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Oops! Sorry I never got back with you.<br /><br />I remembered I already wrote up a huge post before about this, and it&#039;s on ZD.org, so you can view it there (because im lazy):<br /><br />http://forums.zdaemon.org/viewtopic.php?p=257294&amp;highlight=#257294<br /><br />In hindsight I&#039;m surprised phenex didn&#039;t delete the post after locking the thread.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />The topic or post you requested does not exist<br /><br /><br />:(<br /><br />Was the link you posted (approx 10 hours ago since my post) a working link to a working thread? I&#039;m just wondering if it is broken originally or some admin decided to nuke the post having seen you reference it.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(8102, 787, 25, 1357705264, 267, 8102, 'Re: WEEK 1 - MAP12 THIRTY4-16 (JAN 7 - JAN 13) - Discussion and Results', 'RecKle$$_', 'Aesthesic@hotmail.com', '201.103.72.119', 1, 0, '', '(BAD) is questionable huh ?&nbsp; im gonna tell what is really going to happen <br />1.- Legion is going to have a heart attack during the game<br />2.-deww is gonna ban everyone<br />3.- this time im really going to get sick of odamex,Uninstall it for the fifth time,rage quit and smoke the biggest joint ever made<br /><br />&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; G.G', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5079, 514, 17, 1319000738, 130, 5079, 'Re: &quot;Better&quot; Captains', 'nostar', 'nostarcast@yahoo.com', '65.214.200.140', 1, 0, '', 'It&#039;s not impossible. It&#039;s very possible if someone does a little leg work. I made a list of possible player captains and by my own metric sorted them into 4 categories. No two adjacent categories had less than 30 people in them. That is 250% of the captains we need. I imagine we could convince 12 of them to captain. Depending on where we choose to aim the # of captains we need to recruit gets shorter, as sitting captains will inevitably fall somewhere on the skill continuum.<br /><br />What is seemingly impossible is convincing the other members of the IDL administration that tiering people into 4 categories is worth the terrible ethical crime of ranking skill. I personally have no problem with the league ranking skill. I think the upside outweighs the risk, especially if we have higher skilled captains. The worst case scenarios is someone who we said would be a good captain does badly or someone that isn&#039;t a captain would do a really great job. Both of these things already happen so I&#039;m not really sure I see the harm in a generalized tiering system.<br /><br />One thing we could do as a league is making captaining more appealing which would result in more people wanting to captain. One way discussion we&#039;ve had on how to do that would be to make the league more fair, or more even (both have been discussed at length). Another is to allow captains to be a real part of the league, say, let them name the teams. Another way is to force scheduling on the site. It sucks that captaining is essentially babysitting now and the league can take measures to fix this by giving more responsibility to them and alleviating some of the stupider tasks like scheduling. These are some ways we can get more people to captain. I&#039;m lobbying for some of these things right now.<br /><br />So call your congressman and tell them you want the best&nbsp; captains IDL can offer. They should listen to you although I have no belief that they will.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5080, 522, 17, 1319038281, 163, 5080, 'Re: Trading hurts parity?', 'Hatred', 'jbetts21@live.com', '99.50.8.124', 1, 0, '', 'Eliminating trading isn&#039;t the answer either. The one thing trading can do is give more balance to your team if you strike the right deal. That being said, you are correct about most trades being ridiculously lopsided. <br /><br />I&#039;m going to go out on a limb here and take a page out of Nostar&#039;s book: the more balanced the league is with equally skilled captains (or at least close to it), you could make the case that trading wouldn&#039;t take place as often. But I stress the emphasis of trading draft positions more than anything. In fact, draft trading has become a reoccurring theme over the past two drafts. And truthfully, I think both instances (Goat/Rus trade, Lb/Mass trade) worked out well for both teams. So while I agree with you in mid-season trades usually being unfair, completely abolishing trading could potentially harm parity, too.<br /><br />As for the rules being more complex, I honestly feel like some of the rules aren&#039;t as well defined as they could be. There are a lot of loopholes. Some get taken advantage of, some are stopped right in their tracks. Being more definitive in some of these rules certainly can&#039;t hurt. It also stands to reason that with the addition of context, more windows could be open. <br /><br />For example, I proposed the idea of simply swapping draft spots. Currently, there&#039;s nothing that says you can or cannot do that. So as a result, captain&#039;s pick for each other and swap the picks. In theory this sounds fine but there is the risk of the deal going sour (for example, LB/Mass trade could have potentially not happened if I drafted either Noob/Collision originally) and both captains end up with players who don&#039;t necessarily fit their teams. Not to say that Nostar and Mike aren&#039;t capable players because they&#039;re far above that. But a team of Mass/Nostar and LB/Mike doesn&#039;t make a ton of sense. Particularly LB/mike as both are seen as great runners. LB is capable of playing defense/mid but probably not leading a team to a championship with his ability in that field alone. <br /><br />&nbsp; &nbsp; ', 'xx', 1);
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	(5911, 579, 20, 1326426210, 37, 5911, 'Re: Post Demos Here', 'Tony', 'red.doomer@gmail.com', '98.209.167.80', 1, 0, '', 'http://www.speedyshare.com/file/xSXFp/suc-vs-pdu.zip', 'xx', 1);
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	(5085, 522, 17, 1319051391, 19, 5085, 'Re: Trading hurts parity?', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.183.245', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Fastidious link=topic=522.msg5084#msg5084 date=1319049803]<br />Xenaero adults are discussing here go back to your cave.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Don&#039;t have a cave, but maybe one of your finely-tanned ladies can spare one? I&#039;ll visit when I&#039;m done doing my job in helping the league. You know, that thing you pretend to do. :)', 'xx', 1);
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	(364, 38, 6, 1227048085, 0, 364, 'Re: Winter ''09 Speculation', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.213.245', 1, 0, '', 'I predict almost every team signs a player for two seasons.&nbsp; Not doing so seems stupid.&nbsp; Until captains are made public it&#039;s a bit hard to speculate on teams.&nbsp; I imagine UD, DX, NS, and R captains will mostly match up with clan mates for the signing of major players but I&#039;d love to see a break in clan lines.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(272, 26, 2, 1219273876, 0, 272, 'Re: IDL - A Look Ahead', 'Fastidious', '', '24.15.221.244', 1, 0, '', 'Too much bullshit, over competitiveness, and a lack of focus on fun are killing the point of playing for me.&nbsp; In the future I think I&#039;ll be sticking to pickups or private which is much less headache.&nbsp; We need someone in charge who is:<br /><br />1.&nbsp; Around a lot to deal with crises<br />2.&nbsp; Is going to adapt rules quickly to fix things<br />3.&nbsp; Is going to take chances mixing things up with new seasons<br /><br />The fact stuff like 3v2, 3v1, etc is still allowed boggles my mind.&nbsp; The key of the IDL is fun not competition, and ideally we want each team to have .500 percent records.&nbsp; The demo penalties while a good idea just ended up punishing innocent players and tilting a few matches in one direction.&nbsp; A drastic IDL redesign would be a good idea.&nbsp; I would be willing to help out some, but there is no way I&#039;d want to be the head admin.<br /><br />When it comes down to it the players are the main problem.&nbsp; Many are too busy to find an hour a week to play or god forbid practice.&nbsp; RNB is guilty of not being the best schedulers this season but at the same time we were probably better than a lot of other teams and got many matches done before the weekends.&nbsp; Teams want their best players to play and it doesn&#039;t make any sense for them to play without them before the last day.&nbsp; More later, I&#039;m going out to eat with Mike...', 'xx', 1);
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	(1412, 163, 11, 1263928542, 0, 1416, 'Re: Post Demos on Forums Please', 'Fastidious', '', '75.63.60.198', 1, 1263957013, 'Fastidious', 'One quick question: I take it demos have to uploaded here, if not at the site, to play penalty free in this week&#039;s matches?', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(283, 26, 2, 1219704784, 0, 283, 'Re: IDL - A Look Ahead', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.234.47', 1, 0, '', 'Pretty much the only admin who made decisions was Ralphis, I don&#039;t even know what&#039;s his status lately.&nbsp; Me and bones basically didn&#039;t decide anything but were around to discuss things.&nbsp; Ralphis isn&#039;t around enough, and no one else ATM seems willing to make any big decisions likely because Ralphis isn&#039;t going to support them(at least that is how I felt).&nbsp; I can bring up quite a few specific examples but I&#039;ll just touch on one at the end of the season which I brought to many people&#039;s attention(admins) but was ignored over and over.&nbsp; Beast didn&#039;t submit his demos before he played us in week 9 and AFAIK Blood was supposed to sit a round.&nbsp; Blood never submitted his Week 9 demo so what would have happened if he showed up for playoffs?&nbsp; Who knows.&nbsp; All I know is I followed the rules and had to suffer consequences and other players ignored them in total without anyone giving a fuck.&nbsp; And why do I have to record demos?&nbsp; To accommodate people we were suspicious about since they have shady histories(?).&nbsp; Stuff like that makes me disgusted with the IDL.<br /><br />Ladna I&#039;m happy you think the IDL is great, I think it has a lot of things that could be changed or at least attempted to be fixed.&nbsp; Anyhow if everyone likes how the IDL is, that&#039;s fine.&nbsp; To me a lot of things are not good enough.&nbsp; Unfair matches aren&#039;t good enough for me when we don&#039;t have to have them.&nbsp; Demo rules which punish innocent players to let suspicious players play is not good enough.&nbsp; Our team playing fair 2v2s then other teams not reciprocating, is not good enough.&nbsp; Rules only being followed sometimes is not good enough.&nbsp;  Captains refusing to talk to me to schedule or ignoring me is not good enough.&nbsp; Teams treating their worse player like they don&#039;t exist is not good enough.&nbsp; Our team having to wait beyond our scheduled time, while other teams practice for the first time of the week on late Sunday night, is not good enough.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(284, 27, 2, 1219705028, 0, 284, 'Re: IDL SEASON 4: CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.234.47', 1, 0, '', '[b][size=20pt][color=red]RNB:&nbsp; 2[/color][/size][/b]<br /><br />[b]*Game 1: Fastidious, Whiteboy, Gilgamesh, - 5<br />*Game 1: Fastidious, Whiteboy, Gilgamesh, - 1<br />*Game 3: Fastidious, Whiteboy, Gilgamesh, - 3[/b]<br /><br /><br />[b][size=20pt][color=blue]FFF:&nbsp; 0[/color][/size][/b]<br /><br />[b]*Game 1: Tai, Beast, Deathbringer - 0<br />*Game 2: Tai, Beast, Deathbringer - 1<br />*Game 3: Tai, Beast, Deathbringer - 1[/b]', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(6433, 622, 17, 1331180842, 19, 6433, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.230.203', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Legion_ link=topic=622.msg6432#msg6432 date=1331180746]<br />so what, I am able to kill flag runners just as well as on zdaemon. perhaps you should aim a bit better?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />You were wrong to tell Stallion he was incorrect. He is in fact, correct.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(286, 26, 2, 1219709695, 0, 286, 'Re: IDL - A Look Ahead', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.234.47', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Xenaero link=topic=26.msg285#msg285 date=1219708458]I don&#039;t think people are being involved, period. There have been public discussions of things in #idl many times and very few have put forth suggestions or ideas to help improve the league for various situations and scenarios. I&#039;d like to hear more about this, though.[/quote]<br /><br />The admins had some pretty damn lengthy and in depth discussions at times.&nbsp; I&#039;d say we far surpassed stuff casually discussed in the #idl main channel.&nbsp;A lot of issues don&#039;t have clear fixes without pros/cons so you can say it comes down to a matter of opinion.&nbsp; A good example is demos, I wouldn&#039;t require them unless there is suspicion of cheating or weirdness, etc.&nbsp; Instead I&#039;d just require the winning team to submit someone&#039;s POV or something like that.&nbsp; Probably nuke the penalty rule and just remove anyone caught cheating like usual.<br /><br />There are also lots of issues where captains are in charge of decisions but admins let them make bad decisions repeatedly.&nbsp; Many teams are allowed to languish with only 3 active players just because their captain for whatever reason doesn&#039;t show interest in picking another player.&nbsp; I think in situations like that the rules or admins should step in as it helps the league to have more solid teams and more players.<br /><br />[quote]If you noticed this being a problem before, did you bring it up to an admin before the game went down? If you did not, you shouldn&#039;t be disgusted with the IDL. Everyone makes mistakes, and it&#039;s up to everyone, not just the admins, to help correct them and prevent them in the future.[/quote]<br /><br />Yes, I pm&#039;d quite a few people about it(and the #idlops chan).&nbsp; I&#039;m an admin too but I&#039;m not going to force an issue like that in a game I&#039;m playing in, it&#039;s not right.<br /><br />[quote]So how would you fix these issues? This topic isn&#039;t for just listing out issues, but also talking about and discussion [b]how[/b] to fix them, not state that they need to be fixed. That is obvious. :P[/quote]<br /><br />It seems no one cares enough to fix it.&nbsp; The fact it&#039;s all accepted just because it happens over and over is the current situation.&nbsp; I&#039;ve suggested various fixes from stuff like forced scheduling to changed rules.&nbsp; Perhaps some code&#039;s of conduct, stricter scheduling that is actually enforced, it&#039;s not rocket science.&nbsp; Honestly at this point I do want everything fixed but at the same time I&#039;m almost certainly going to sit out next season and just see what happens.&nbsp; In the end it&#039;s up the players and captains...', 'xx', 1);
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	(5912, 579, 20, 1326441597, 7, 5918, 'Re: Post Demos Here', 'Ladna', 'ladna@intldoomleague.org', '65.214.200.140', 1, 1326498056, 'Ladna', 'Prime you are such a fucking boss.&nbsp; God.&nbsp; ;D<br /><br />http://www.speedyshare.com/file/hu6km/IDL-W2012-Week1-PDUvsSUC-LadnaPOV-idl2011.7z', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(290, 29, 2, 1219869734, 0, 290, 'Re: IDL MasterBowl IV', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.208.58', 1, 0, '', 'No predictions but if you think about it is fairly interesting to see the role Donut played in both teams.&nbsp; He allowed RNB to lock up Whiteboy, and then helped revive DPT with mid.&nbsp; I told you mid was AWESOME Donut, you should have kept him!&nbsp; &nbsp;:D&nbsp; I have a feeling this will be a very defensive Masterbowl, I just hope it doesn&#039;t go too many rounds.&nbsp; Also tentatively we are looking at Saturday 7PM EST right now but it still has no been 100% confirmed as of this post.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5164, 524, 18, 1320089615, 19, 5164, 'Re: Rule Changes for Winter 2012', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.183.245', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=Hatred link=topic=524.msg5163#msg5163 date=1320073164]<br />What about captains naming their own teams?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Due to the priority of map selection, this has not been definitely decided upon nor a concrete vote called into action, mostly because any time this is brought up, the board becomes like so:<br /><br />[img]http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3143/homerw.gif[/img]', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(5913, 581, 17, 1326468218, 213, 5913, 'Re: 2012 wad', 'MassVC', 'vcmassvc@gmail.com', '97.92.40.97', 1, 0, '', 'Map19, Techno Syndrome, a smaller remake of ZDCTF Map19.&nbsp; I asked James for permission to remake it, and he felt like he was in a position to give it.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(291, 26, 2, 1219870606, 0, 291, 'Re: IDL - A Look Ahead', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.208.58', 1, 1219870791, 'Fastidious', '[quote author=Ladna link=topic=26.msg287#msg287 date=1219772509]<br />It wouldn&#039;t have been fair to WAD, and his obligation as captain isn&#039;t to RNB, it&#039;s to his own team.&nbsp; In other sports, when a team is penalized, the league doesn&#039;t penalize the opposing team to make things &quot;fair&quot;.&nbsp; When a team is forced to play with an injured player (GaX &amp; his ***), the league doesn&#039;t force the opposing team to cut its roster down.&nbsp; Sometimes bad shit happens to players and teams, but it&#039;s not the league&#039;s responsibility to make things equally bad for the opposing team so that things are &quot;fair&quot;.&nbsp; And you can say all you want about IDL not being a real sport, but it&#039;s at least a competitive gaming league, and the parallels are the same.[/quote]<br /><br />If every team forced every 3v2 possible the league would be fucking lame.&nbsp; The fact is it&#039;s almost an unwritten rule to play 2v2s(as most teams do).&nbsp; RNB played 2v2s when we had to because we have class(sup Nostar!).&nbsp; The rules should be changed in many cases, it should not be a bullshit game of gotcha.&nbsp; I&#039;m happy you bring up real sports since almost never do real sports have teams anywhere near 100% vs 66% roster which is ridiculous.&nbsp; Maybe in soccer or hockey one or a few will sit out but even then it does not approach the same harshness.&nbsp; Also in hockey power plays end on scores and in soccer it&#039;s much different with so many players with such a long and low scoring game.&nbsp; The IDL 3v2 is pointless and I think overall drags the league down a lot.&nbsp; Maybe if IDL power plays were more reasonable like a cap or a few it&#039;d be sensible but right now it can be a full match of both rounds which is plain ridiculous.', 'xx', 1);
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VALUES 
	(295, 26, 2, 1219943607, 0, 295, 'Re: IDL - A Look Ahead', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.208.58', 1, 0, '', 'Mike is naive.&nbsp; In the whole history of online leagues what he is suggesting has probably never happened.&nbsp; All the leagues I&#039;ve been involved in always have similar issues, granted some are better and some worse but it&#039;s a constant battle over basics.&nbsp; There will always be people who sign up then never show up or quit mid season and people who are jerks about things.&nbsp; We should be trying to smooth the league out for people who are not problems, but often everyone is going to deal with these problem people so it rubs off on everyone.', 'xx', 1);
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	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(297, 26, 2, 1220042742, 0, 297, 'Re: IDL - A Look Ahead', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.208.58', 1, 1220043140, 'Fastidious', 'You are going to allow me?&nbsp; Go die in a fire Nostar.&nbsp; Actions speak louder than any words.&nbsp; You act like you played a 2v2, you did not.&nbsp; You played a 3v2(unless you are insane enough to count Gax with *** ping).&nbsp; I also tried to get the game done early, I remember you also turning down me when we were ready at least once(you had 3 players on too!).&nbsp; You got all emo about scheduling because A) you recruited by a choice someone who lives in EU B) you thought you&#039;d be gone Sunday, those two things led to your little mind thinking it was ok to make demands that the game not be on Sunday when Whiteboy had told me that was basically one of the best times for him that week.&nbsp; If anything the whole thing was your own doing since you put unnecessary pressure on me when you didn&#039;t even leave on Sunday.&nbsp; Fucking moron.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(301, 26, 2, 1220050220, 0, 301, 'Re: IDL - A Look Ahead', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.208.58', 1, 0, '', 'Last I heard nostar&#039;s idea to make the league better was to lock in players for two seasons.&nbsp; That way he can get potent longer...', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(305, 26, 2, 1220135126, 0, 305, 'Re: IDL - A Look Ahead', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.208.58', 1, 0, '', 'We&#039;ve had these discussions in the past, scheduling was supposed to be fixed this season for instance.&nbsp; My biggest suggestion would be new IDL leadership, let someone like Nostar or even Gilgamesh take over if they want to.&nbsp; I think a fresh admin would do us some good.&nbsp; Except for Chain implementing the mid season draft I don&#039;t think any other admins have ever made bigger decisions.&nbsp; Ralphis nukes most suggestions even if they are reasonable.&nbsp; I&#039;ve made lots of suggestions to him and he always has a reason why his way is better.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(306, 26, 2, 1220141690, 0, 306, 'Re: IDL - A Look Ahead', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.208.58', 1, 0, '', 'Also despite me attacking Nostar and him getting back at me, we actually don&#039;t really fight on irc.&nbsp; &nbsp;???', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(307, 29, 2, 1220142425, 0, 307, 'Re: IDL MasterBowl IV', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.208.58', 1, 1220142649, 'Fastidious', '[img]http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5136/rngvsdptmasterbowlsummepj8.png[/img]<br /><br />http://www.totaltrash.org/Fastidious/fast_masterbowl_2008-08-30_184037_odactf1.108.zdo.zip', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5083, 517, 17, 1319043991, 19, 5083, 'Re: The Draft', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.183.245', 1, 0, '', '[quote author=LordBritish link=topic=517.msg5066#msg5066 date=1318855095]<br />I would tend to agree, if not for the WDC last year.&nbsp; Prime to MB, Mass (although he was albatross, I don&#039;t really count that) to conf champ, both second year players.&nbsp; They may be exceptions, but it bears noting.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />That&#039;s true, and I don&#039;t disagree. I often think about the majority of players which don&#039;t necessarily have the same talent or team structure as Mass and Prime have had, in which more experience would help these players before they figured they could cap a team effectively.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(5082, 522, 17, 1319043363, 19, 5083, 'Re: Trading hurts parity?', 'Xenaero', 'Xenaero@gmail.com', '71.55.183.245', 1, 1319044431, 'Xenaero', 'Oh for fucks sake, what do you even know about parity, Fast? Have you even played a serious game of anything in forever? Do you even observe basic human behavior in that there are mistakes to be made whenever you put two people in a situation that is adversarial where one would inevitably benefit more than the other? Might as well assign fixed teams with ranked players so that absolute parity can be achieved, except that&#039;s only on paper and absolute parity will [b]never[/b] be achieved in practice, nor should it be.<br /><br />What a bad topic. What kind of a subject is this, and moreover, what&#039;s the point? Also thanks for providing any sort of input other than &#039;ha the idl rules are complex and open to subjection!&#039;, because this is intrinsically helpful to any reforming or clarification of rules, which we are also going to revamp for the new website and season as far as I know. So there&#039;s your answer. Stop saying things like &#039;let&#039;s get rid of trading&#039; when the majority of trades are fair and/or needed for the survival of a team. You of all people should be aware that a select few shady trades get more attention than others due to loopholes in the rules that are being addressed, resolved, and clarified to a far greater degree than they are now, and will be done in time for next season, of this I guarantee.<br /><br />Trading hurts parity, though? Give me a fuckin&#039; break. Enough of this crazy talk.<br /><br />EDIT: In addition, I would like to attach [url=http://i.imgur.com/s4knV.png]this definition[/url] of &#039;parity&#039; for further insight, considering that I think people are using the word without actually knowing what it means and how it affects your statements when you mention it when talking about a league of human players competing via differing layers of skill, maps, team layouts and whatever other circumstance of the game. Next thing I know you&#039;ll suggest we have fixed-spread SSG &#039;fixes&#039; and absolute spawn locations.<br /><br />In short: [b]get fucked / jizzh.jpg&#039;d[/b]', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
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VALUES 
	(6434, 622, 17, 1331181073, 157, 6434, 'Re: Moving IDL to Odamex', 'Legion_', 'skulltaglegion@hotmail.com', '71.115.99.65', 1, 0, '', 'nope', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(489, 55, 6, 1231347818, 0, 489, 'Re: Week 1 (ZDCTF07) - Discussion and Results', 'Fastidious', '', '99.141.215.2', 1, 0, '', 'Nice predictions.&nbsp; I just want to see some fireworks and lots of flags getting capped by all teams.', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
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	(9469, 965, 31, 1384666076, 2899, 9469, 'Re: Theory of Rolf', 'bless_', 'callystor1@gmail.com', '24.181.65.205', 1, 0, '', 'perrolf', 'xx', 1);
INSERT INTO idlsmf_messages
	(id_msg, id_topic, id_board, poster_time, id_member, id_msg_modified, subject, poster_name, poster_email, poster_ip, smileys_enabled, modified_time, modified_name, body, icon, approved)
VALUES 
	(431, 38, 6, 1228968481, 0, 431, 'Re: Winter ''09 Speculation', 'Fastidious', '', '99.144.178.115', 1, 0, '', 'Overall, the teams are very strong, and except for Blair team(which I have a hunch will change due to a deal) are likely solid foundations for season competitiveness.<br /><br />[b]* Chaindude-Whiteboy567[/b]<br /><br />I see this team as the clear favorite right now.&nbsp; This duo can play any position with the best in the league interchangeably which adds a lot to their overall depth.&nbsp; Any good third will cement them with a winning season.<br /><br />[b]* HumanBones-Midian[/b]<br /><br />Bones is a bonafide IDL superstar and Midian is also a great player.&nbsp; Mid seems best suited to play defense though in a pinch he can bring home some flags if needed.&nbsp; Bones is versatile enough to play whatever is needed.&nbsp; Another good all around player or offensive player will fill out this team.<br /><br />[b]* Killingblair-JKist3[/b]<br /><br />Depends what happens, I imagine Blair is giving up JKist to Nostar in exchange Nostar&#039;s draftees, but who will Blair get?&nbsp; Then again he could keep JKist regardless and renege any agreement, however risky that may be.&nbsp; Blair is a strong defender, among the best, and JKist is good all around.&nbsp; With the current roster they would need more offensive firepower to be a strong team.<br /><br />[b]* Nostar-Potentpotables[/b]<br /><br />A top contender, especially if they land JKist/Cookies to form a core NS squad.&nbsp; Nostar and Potent, like Chain and White excel at both positions but likely Nostar will up playing defense more often than not.&nbsp; Any good third will give them a great season.<br /><br />[b]* Ralphis-Oath[/b]<br /><br />Oath is primarily an offensive player, as is Ralphis, so this is an interesting choice.&nbsp; Both can play defense, especially Ralphis, but I think deep down both prefer to go flag hunting.&nbsp; Picking a solid defender would seem smart here, so Gilgamesh or Kyte, etc would round out this team.<br /><br />[b]* Sabertooth-CabooseA7X[/b]<br /><br />Two good players, Saber good all around, and Caboose likely to provide the offensive muscle.&nbsp; They should pick a top fragger such as Rottking to provide a boost to their team.<br /><br />[b]* Tai-METALBLACK[/b]<br /><br />Another top contender, but will Tai seem lost without his beloved Bloodstrike?&nbsp; Tai likely will stay defensive, supermanning when he wants to, while MetalBlack can do it all.&nbsp; They should do well with any good third player.<br /><br />[b]* Xenaero-Doomguy666[/b]<br /><br />The most defensive suited team in the bunch out of the gate, they should be hunting for an offensive player.&nbsp; Picking Mikehail or even Donut might provide what they require.&nbsp; A 2D-1O setup with Xenaero and Doomguy on defense will be a tough nut to crack, but without someone who can bring home lots of flags they might be in trouble.<br /><br />Anything can happen, but I&#039;d rank the teams currently:<br /><br />[b]1. Chaindude-Whiteboy567<br />2. Nostar-Potentpotables<br />3. Tai-METALBLACK<br />4. Ralphis-Oath<br />5. HumanBones-Midian<br />6. Sabertooth-CabooseA7X<br />7. Killingblair-JKist3<br />8. Xenaero-Doomguy666[/b]', 'xx', 1);
